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simchaland
2010 Jan 15, 6:37am
Mr pre-modernist,
The scientific/historical evidence seems to point to what that that page says. There seems to be truth in it. I know that at one point Jews who emigrated to the Khazar/Russian areas did go out and convert people in the Khazar region back when they were in a prosthelytizing period. Also Russians and Khazars converted to marry Jews who were new immigrants at the time.
So yes, there is a definite mixing of Eurasian and Jewish people that happened throughout history. That's why there are blond haired blue eyed Jews and green eyed red haired Jews.
Later in history conversions were stopped because Czarist Russia made conversion a dangerous prospect for any Rabbi and the convert.
Most Ashkhenazim (Eastern European Jews) have some Eastern European/Eurasian blood. Some Sephardim (Middle Eastern/Spanish Jews) who were living outside of Israel/Palestine have some Arab/African/Spanish blood in them too.
The Falasha Jews of Ethiopia are descended from exiled Jews and local Ethiopians who inter-married with them.
The Jewish Diaspora has had to mix in with the people with whom they live in order to survive at times. And some Jews had to remain separate from the peoples with whom they lived in order to survive too.
Judaism is a religion, certainly. And it's more than a religion. It's also a People who are drawn or tied to or originate from a strip of land in the Middle East. Jews aren't a separate race, certainly. Judaism is an ethnicity. And within Judaism there are many ethnic groups who vary in religious practice and custom and language.
What unites us is our Books, Hebrew, our One God, the Sabbath, our Holy Days, and the Land of Israel (both the figurative/spiritual Eretz Yisrael and the actual physical land if Israel.) We are still very much a tribal people even when living in modern countries where tribalism is all but extinct. We tend to "know" each other when we meet each other. Each one of us has a "Jewish Soul" that somehow most of us can "sniff out" in other Jews who may not appear to be "outwardly Jewish."
So, it is wrong to consider Jews as a homogeneous "race." We aren't a race. We are a People that has an over-arching culture that varies within different Jewish sub-ethnic groups. Jews can be found around the world in every country. Jews can and do look differently depending on ethnic background or conversion.
So, the question of "Who is a Jew?" is very complex and even Jews disagree on what makes one person a Jew and another person a non-Jew. Personally, I believe that if you self-identify as a Jew, you're a Jew. If you don't identify as a Jew and your Mother is Jewish, you're still technically a Jew by Jewish Law, and yet I don't believe it's fair to call a person who has a Jewish Mother who doesn't identify as a Jew a Jew, even though Jewish Law states otherwise. Jewish Law doesn't recognize conversion to another religion. Basically if you're born a Jew or you converted to Judaism you are always a Jew, even if you leave and join another religion. It's because being a Jew isn't just being part of a religion, it's also being part of a People/Tribe.
So, these answers can get very complicated. And no, I don't believe the Khazar Diaspora Theories to be propaganda. I believe that there is some scientific/historical evidence that points to certain truths there and that to dismiss it without careful study would be wrong.
resistance
2012 Sep 13, 2:34am
I think it's important to resurrect this thread each time militant Muslims murder in the name of Mohammed.
Latest murders: Lybia
CrazyMan
2012 Sep 13, 2:49am
What's amazing is in this day and age people still believe any of this shit actually exists. Jesus, Allah, Joseph Smith, the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus; they're all figments of your f***ing imagination. I really wish people would understand that but unfortunately the world is full of stupid people.
Also, RIP Vile Rat.
curious2
2012 Sep 13, 3:21am
Thank you for posting this. The latest murders in Libya are very sad, possibly orchestrated by Al Qaeda manipulating a mob, which seems all too easy in Muslim countries (remember the Danish cartoons, and the Pakistani girl accused of blasphemy). An early comment said Christianity has also been used to promote violence, e.g. the Crusades. Apparently that was also true of the most recent Iraq war, where W saw himself fulfilling biblical prophecy:
Religion motivates and organizes people to do things they otherwise wouldn't, sometimes terrible things. Based on claims that cannot be proved, it lends itself to division and violence. Even on P.net I have noticed people who seem otherwise reasonable become totally unhinged when the subject is religion; they subordinate the Constitution to their preferred preacher, call the founders of the Republic (who prohibited the Congress from passing any law respecting an establishment of religion) "scumbags," and say that disagreeing with their preacher is like slitting their throats. The paradox is, they claim to believe in an omnipotent god, yet they act as if he/she/it needs their help all the time. They seem unable or unwilling to understand that no omnipotent god can ever need their help. While Islam seems to be the locus of most religious violence currently, Muslims are only acting out primal behaviors best shown in the opening scenes of 2001: their preachers have discovered a tool to cause violence and gain power for themselves, just as other preachers have also discovered.
freak80
2012 Sep 13, 4:54am
Maybe move this to the Religion section?
I read through a lot of this. Will humanity blow itself up?
Anyone remember "The End of the World Cartoon"? ;-)
Patrick
2013 Apr 19, 2:34am
Looks like the "Religion of Peace" has directly inspired the murder of innocent people at random yet again (Boston this time), so it's time to bump this thread back to the top.
Please copy and paste the original text from http://www.faithfreedom.org/ to other blogs, especially in Arabic if you can do the translation.
All religious people should be viewed with suspicion and fear. They cannot be trusted to be humane to others because they are delusional.
Chechens have longstanding beef with russians as such it was somewhat surprising that they chose to attack america. America never done anything to them directly or indirectly.
Tenpoundbass
2013 Apr 19, 4:32am
I hope they mail the boy's head to his father, judging by his tone, he knew what they were up to.
Patrick
2013 Apr 19, 6:00am
Looks like INS really screwed up this one. Those guys should not have been admitted to the country.
MisdemeanorRebel
2013 Apr 19, 6:47am
Nor did one brother have trouble hanging out with people and making friends:
We need to start charging clerics as accessories to crimes, if they explicitly endorse violence from their pulpit. Or at least seize their church's assets.
Heavyweight Champion, best boxer in Boston, wanted him to represent Boston in various sporting events.
What did that guy say about entrails and priests?
Dan8267
2013 Apr 19, 7:39am
Nor did one brother have trouble hanging out with people and making friends:
Well, that idiot won't be spending any time with girlfriends anymore. He'll have plenty of time for regret during the next 60+ years in jail.
leo707
2013 Apr 19, 7:40am
We need to start charging clerics as accessories to crimes, if they explicitly endorse violence from their pulpit. Or at least seize their church's assets.
Careful now...we would have to word that law so it does not accidentally snare real Americans like Michael Savage and Glenn Beck.
Dan8267
2013 Apr 19, 8:05am
We need to start charging clerics as accessories to crimes, if they explicitly endorse violence from their pulpit. Or at least seize their church's assets.
Careful now...we would have to word that law so it does not accidentally snare real Americans like Michael Savage and Glenn Beck.
Actually, I would be more concerned about such, even well-intended, laws ensnaring people like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr., and anyone else who "rocked the boat".
There's also still some truth in the mantra:
The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.
I think all Americans need to have a rebellious streak in them. It's good for the country.
curious2
2013 Apr 19, 8:41am
Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr....
Your list reminded me of something I'd been thinking lately. To my knowledge, no one like that has ever achieved any progress in a Muslim country. The whole model of peaceful protest and non-violent civil disobedience seems totally alien to them. The whole tradition, from Gandhi through MLK and Malcolm X and Abbie Hoffman, doesn't seem to exist in Muslim countries. Similarly, no Muslim country has same-sex marriage. Basically those countries operate on the model of the poster showing conventional logic vs religious logic, i.e. either you do "voluntarily" whatever they tell you - based on their particular (mis)reading of the Koran and Sharia - or they force you. Even Malcolm X, who converted to Islam, was killed by his fellow "Nation of Islam" Muslims.
Dan8267
2013 Apr 19, 10:15am
There was a time when the Islamic world was more advanced than the Europe and embraced mathematics. It took a turn for the worse when the "Islamic right" took over and decided that religious teachings were more important than science, art, and mathematics. Thankfully, that could never happen in America.
New Renter
2013 Apr 19, 1:57pm
There was a time when the Islamic world was more advanced than the Europe and embraced mathematics. It took a turn for the worse when the "Islamic right" took over and decided that religious teachings were more important than science, art, and mathematics. Thankfully, that could never happen in America.
I wonder if they had a bogus "critical shortage" of STEM employees too...
New Renter
2013 Apr 19, 1:59pm
Well, that idiot won't be spending any time with girlfriends anymore. He'll have plenty of time for regret during the next 60+ years in jail.
Oh I'm sure he'll be the "wife" in his next few relationships.
lostand confused
2013 Apr 19, 2:12pm
They seem rather unlikely sort for bombers. I wonder if this is what they call sleeper cells-or maybe I watch too many movies?
ere was a time when the Islamic world was more advanced than the Europe and embraced mathematics. It took a turn for the worse when the "Islamic right" took over and decided that religious teachings were more important than science, art, and mathematics.
what ever they had in science, art, philosophy, mathematics came from Europe.
thanks to the Greeks... and the Great One... Alexander.
Thankfully, that could never happen in America.
Texas Instruments Inc. (TI) is an American company that designs and makes semiconductors, which it sells to electronics designers and manufacturers globally.[4] Headquartered at Dallas, Texas, United States. TI is the third largest manufacturer of semiconductors worldwide[5] after Intel and Samsung, the second largest supplier of chips for cellular handsets after Qualcomm, and the largest producer of digital signal processors (DSPs) and analog semiconductors, among a wide range of other semiconductor products,[6] including calculators, microcontrollers and multi-core processors. Texas Instruments is among the Top 20 Semiconductor producing companies in the world.
Texas Instruments was founded in 1951. It emerged after a reorganization of Geophysical Service. This company manufactured equipment for use in the seismic industry as well as defense electronics. TI began research in transistors in the early 1950s and produced the world's first commercial silicon transistor. In 1954, Texas Instruments designed and manufactured the first transistor radio and Jack Kilby invented the integrated circuit in 1958 while working at TI's Central Research Labs. The company produced the first integrated circuit-based computer for the U.S. Air Force in 1961. TI researched infrared technology in the late 1950s and later made radar systems, guidance and control systems for both missiles and bombs. The hand-held calculator was introduced to the world by TI in 1967.
Dan8267
2013 Apr 19, 3:33pm
what ever they had in science, art, philosophy, mathematics came from Europe.
Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me.
http://www.pbs.org/empires/islam/innoalgebra.html
Medieval Muslims made invaluable contributions to the study of mathematics, and their key role is clear from the many terms derived from Arabic. Perhaps the most famous mathematician was Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi (ca. 800-ca. 847), author of several treatises of earth-shattering importance. His book On the Calculation with Hindu Numerals, written about 825, was principally responsible for the diffusion of the Indian system of numeration (Arabic numerals) in the Islamic lands and the West.
Not only did the Muslims invent algebra (from Arabic al-jabr or "restoration") and the concept of zero, but the very digits we use are called Arabic numerals: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.
The exchange of knowledge in the ancient Middle East was a symbolic relationship as evident in Arabic contributions to medicine and science.
The fact that the Arabic contributed so much makes its fall from scientific grace and into the cease-pool of religious doctrine all the more poignant. And the fact that this lesson of history is lost on people like you makes it all the more likely to be repeated in our own society.
Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me.
Welcome to the Greek world. Have a good cry over reality, no point being an apologist.
curious2
2013 Apr 19, 3:56pm
invent algebra
The origins of algebra go back more than 2,000 years before Islam, including ancient Babylonian equations and Greek geometric algebra (Pythagorean theorem that aa+bb=cc where c is the hypotenuse of a right triangle whose other sides are a and b). What we now call classical algebra is generally attributed to European Renaissance mathematicians, e.g. Vieta and Descartes. But, during the period 800-1100 AD, when the Muslim world was open to ideas from outside, they did make many advances, including in algebra, as Neil DeGrasse Tyson described in a lecture that you linked to previously. Certainly the Arabic numerals and the concept of 0 have proven enormously helpful everywhere outside the Muslim world, though within the Muslim world there seems to be less emphasis on education and in some places half the population (the female half) are not even allowed to go to school.
resistance
2013 Apr 20, 6:54am
I don't care what Islam invented or not.
All I care is that people understand that they are being lied to when Islam is presented as a "religion of peace". Islam is not at all peaceful. It is by far the most violent and intolerant of all religions. Read the original post. And then read the news. There is a direct connection between official Islamic teaching and every Islamic terrorist attack.
The fact that the Arabic contributed so much makes its fall from scientific grace and into the cease-pool of religious doctrine all the more poignant. And the fact that this lesson of history is lost on people like you makes it all the more likely to be repeated in our own society.
Is the cause and effect that simple ? Or is it possible that the true cause was government structures that used religion to manipulate and control the masses. Not that that removes the onus off of religion to be better and do better.
Is religion inherently bad ? Or is it just that it's powerful, and that it can be corrupted and abused by people, especially leaders and governments ?
I for one don't know the answer. Some will say, even if we don't know the answer, just eliminate religion: problem solved.
direct connection between official Islamic teaching and every Islamic terrorist attack
What was applicable in Arabian desert in the early 7th century is very likely not applicable all over world today. Some Muslims do have problems in understanding that.
For example, devout Muslims fast throughout the day during the month of Ramadan. It does not make sense in high latitude areas, where the sun can set much later during the summer. It would be nearly impossible for someone to follow that, say in Alaska. I know people have problems doing that in the NorthWest. Clearly, people did not know much about the earth when those religious books were written.
Having said that, Islam is relatively a newer religion, compared to other dominant religions. It seems many people following it have not attained that level of maturity. I would believe religious fundamentalism will go down in future, simply because of these practical problems.
resistance
2013 Apr 20, 7:37am
Is the cause and effect that simple ?
Yup, pretty much. Mohammed/Koran tells them to kill, and lo and behold, they kill.
What was applicable in Arabian desert in the early 7th century is very likely not applicable all over world today.
Islam was just as violent and intolerant at its beginning as it is now. I don't think that violence and intolerance were "applicable" to any particular problem. It was just a way for certain people to get power and control minds.
At least Islam is pretty consistent.
Dan8267
2013 Apr 20, 7:51am
Is religion inherently bad ? Or is it just that it's powerful, and that it can be corrupted and abused by people, especially leaders and governments ?
Did you ever see the movie The Invention of Lying? It's brilliant. Movies often follow the three acts form. The first act establishes the thesis (the status quo). The second act establishes the anti-thesis (a new idea). At first, the anti-thesis seems great, but then problems emerge. The third act resolves these problems by combining the thesis and the anti-thesis into synthesis.
The genius of The Invention of Lying is that Ricky Gervais reversed the thesis and the anti-thesis. The world, the status quo, starts out without lying existing. So the first act is already very interesting in that it shows us what the alternative is like, how commercials are like, how dating is like, how every day work is like. And yes, many aspects of life are shit, but it certainly isn't a worse world than what we have.
The main character goes on to have three major insights. The first insight is the premise of the movie. He can say something that doesn't correspond to reality. Now there's no word for this as it hasn't been invented, so he finds himself unable to explain the concept to other people.
Of course, he immediately realizes that this ability gives him a lot of power, power to get women, money, or anything else he wants. This isn't a great insight. No, the second great insight is when he realizes he can use lies to make the world a better place, to solve people's problems, to make people happy who were hopeless.
He tells a suicidal neighbor that things are going to be ok. He tells old people in a retirement home lies that turn their unhappy existence into a hopeful life like "your son thinks about you" or "things are going to get better". And the really amazing thing, is that just by the virtue of telling these lies, he makes reality better. People's lives improve, not because what the main character says is true, but because they believe their lives are better.
So the anti-thesis (our reality), seems a lot better. Surely lies are wonderful things when used properly. The truth sucks and lies make people's lives better, happier, more fulfilling. A well-intended lie is better than the true.
The third major insight that the main character has is that a lie can be used to dull the pain of death. When his mother is about to die, he invents the lie of heaven to ease her pain. And it works, and it is wonderful. But the thing is, there's a catch. Other people are listening, and they believe the lie because they have no concept of lying. Shortly after the invention of lying comes the invention of religion.
Naturally, the main character tries his best to make religion a force for good. He gives an incentive to do good (mansions and eternal bliss after death) and a disincentive to do bad (the equivalent of hell). The thing is, these incentives are lies themselves. So people start acting on the incentives rather than right and wrong. People give up living meaningful lives preferring to sit on their ass all day waiting to die so they can get their mansions. The moral is that there are hidden, but inevitable, costs to lies.
All mythology, superstition, and "supernatural" stories are lies. Religions are power structures built on those lies. Even if a religion does some occasional good, the lies upon which it is built generate hidden, but inevitable, costs. These costs will, in the long run, always outweigh any benefits of the lies.
Any system of decision making that is based on false information, lies, will make worse decisions in the long run than a system based on accurate information. Occasionally, the system based on misinformation will get lucky and make a decision with a really good outcome. But for ever time that happens, there will be many more instances of the system making the wrong decision. This is the inescapable consequence of basing the system on lies.
Moral, ethical, economic, political, and social decision making based on religion is decision making based on misinformation. It will always be inferior to decision making based on truthful information. That inferiority manifests itself as "evil", harm done to society as a result of incorrect decision making. Slavery, book burning, witch hunts, suppression of women, xenophobia, environmental destruction, and war are all specific examples of these evils and they all result from basing the decision making on lies.
If you strip away all the lies from religion, you are left with philosophy. Philosophy can be utter shit or it can be genius. But philosophy, stripped of lies, cannot be religion. And we can rationally debate whether or not a particular philosophy is utter shit or genius. We cannot do that with religion.
And if you remove the artsy-fartsy vagaries of philosophy and replace it with a rigorous and precise language for discussion as well as augmenting it with a self-correcting system like the Scientific Method, you now have mathematics and engineering. And we know those things are great because they prove themselves every day. Even if the philosophy you start off with is utter crap, if you treat it like an engineering discipline, you eventually get something that is genius.
So, yes, religion is inherently evil because it is based on lies. You cannot remove the lies from religion without eliminating religion itself. But if you were to remove the lies, you'd be left with philosophy. And if you were to add the ability to talk precisely about philosophy and the ability to correct mistakes, you'd end up with science, mathematics, and engineering. And that is the ultimate synthesis.
Dan8267
2013 Apr 20, 8:02am
In a witch hunt, a justifiable one or not, if you are related to a witch you must disown him and convince the torch-wielding public that you have nothing to do with him and have always hated him. This is just the ugly side of human nature showing itself.
curious2
2013 Apr 20, 8:54am
Islam is relatively a newer religion, compared to other dominant religions. It seems many people following it have not attained that level of maturity. I would believe religious fundamentalism will go down in future, simply because of these practical problems.
That's a really optimistic view, but in practice religious fundamentalism can wax and wane. As Neil DeGrasse Tyson and others have noted, the 'Muslim world' was more open and and less fundamentalist a thousand years ago than most of it is today. You might also want to see Edward Said's documentary "On Orientalism" and a related documentary called "The Road to 9/11", talking about the resurgence of Islamic fundamentalism beginning around 1900. Christian fundamentalism seems to have increased in America around the same time, partly as a "nativist" response to Irish Catholic immigration; some of the self-styled "natives" (i.e. Protestants) worried that Catholic immigrants would breed and turn America into a satellite of the Vatican. Being a quarter Irish, I can't help laughing at that idea, but we live in a time where JFK and Mario Cuomo and Bill Richardson have all shown that the descendants of Catholic immigrants are among the least likely to turn America into a satellite of the Vatican, while non-Catholics (e.g. "Vaticanus" and much of the commercial press) seem to cite the Pope as authority on almost any subject related to Christianity or morality (which are two different things anyway). The Old Testament and the Koran seem to lend themselves particularly to violence, e.g. the OT stories about murdering thousands of people for choosing a different religion or forgetting the sabbath, as Israelis and Palestinians are experiencing to their mutual detriment.
Patrick
2013 Apr 20, 1:46pm
Is there some reason why this isn't in the Religion forum?
Good point. Moved to Religion forum.
MisdemeanorRebel
2013 Apr 22, 6:23am
Not only did the Muslims invent algebra (from Arabic al-jabr or "restoration") and the concept of zero, but the very digits we use are called Arabic numerals: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.
The Hindus created systemic algebra, earliest form of the numerals we use, and came up with "Zero", several hundred years before Islam. The Arabs (who in the first few centuries AD were confined to the west coast of Saudi Arabia with negligible political, cultural, etc. power) were just the middlemen - they came across it when pushing east into South Asia; we call it that because they transmitted it to us, but they didn't invent them.
Sorry for the nitpick, I just want to make sure credit where credit is due.
zzyzzx
2013 May 2, 11:16pm
A devout Arab Muslim entered a black cab in London. He curtly asked the cabbie to turn off the radio because as decreed by his religious teaching, he must not listen to music because in the time of the prophet there was no music, especially Western music which is the music of the infidel.
The cab driver politely switched off the radio, stopped the cab and opened the door.
The Arab Muslim asked him, "What are you doing? "
The cabbie answered, "In the time of the prophet there were no taxis, so f&&k off and wait for a camel!"
Did anyone watch Lord of the ring movie, and noticed that orcs head was the eye. and this eye was in the middle of the quatar moon.
Isn't quatar symbol for muslim?
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A Call to the Muslims of the World from a Group of Freethinkers and Humanists of Muslim Origins
Dear friends,
The tragic incidents of September 11 have shocked the world. It is unthinkable that anyone could be so full of hate as to commit such heinous acts and kill so many innocent people. We people of Muslim origin are as much shaken as the rest of the world and yet we find ourselves looked upon with suspicion and distrust by our neighbours and fellow citizens. We want to cry out and tell the world that we are not terrorists, and that those who perpetrate such despicable acts are murderers and not part of us. But, in reality, because of our Muslim origins we just cannot erase the stigma of Islamic Terrorism from our identity!
What most Muslims will say:
Islam would never support the killing of innocent people. Allah of the Holy Qur'an never advocated killings. This is all the work of a few misguided individuals at the fringes of society. The real Islam is sanctified from violence. We denounce all violence. Islam means peace. Islam means tolerance.
What knowledgeable Muslims should say:
That is what most Muslims think, but is it true? Does Islam really preach peace, tolerance and non-violence? The Muslims who perpetrate these crimes think differently. They believe that what they do is Jihad (holy war). They say that killing unbelievers is mandatory for every Muslim. They do not kill because they wish to break the laws of Islam but because they think this is what true Muslims should do. Those who blow-up their own bodies to kill more innocent people do so because they think they will be rewarded in Paradise. They hope to be blessed by Allah, eat celestial food, drink pure wine and enjoy the company of divine consorts. Are they completely misguided? Where did they get this distorted idea? How did they come to believe that killing innocent people pleases God? Or is it that we are misguided? Does really Islam preach violence? Does it call upon its believers to kill non-believers? We denounce those who commit acts of violence and call them extremists. But are they really extremists or are they following what the holy book, the Qur'an tells them to do? What does the Qur'an teach? Have we read the Qur'an? Do we know what kind of teachings are there? Let us go through some of them and take a closer look at what Allah says.
What the Qur'an Teaches Us:
We have used the most widely available English text of the Qur'an and readers are welcome to verify our quotes from the holy book. Please have an open mind and read through these verses again and again. The following quotes are taken from the most trusted Yusufali's translation of the Qur'an. The Qur'an tells us: not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (5:51), kill the disbelievers wherever we find them (2:191), murder them and treat them harshly (9:123), fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (9:5). The Qur'an demands that we fight the unbelievers, and promises If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them (8:65). Allah and his messenger want us to fight the Christians and the Jews until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued (9:29). Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (9:3). Our God tells us to fight the unbelievers and He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them (9:14).
The Qur'an takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and relegates those who disbelieve in Islam to hell (5:10), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders its followers to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). It says that the non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water (14:17). It asks the Muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter (5:34). And tells us that for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods (22:19-22) and that they not only will have disgrace in this life, but on the Day of Judgment He shall make them taste the Penalty of burning (Fire) (22:9). The Qur'an says that those who invoke a god other than Allah not only should meet punishment in this world but the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in ignominy (25:68). For those who believe not in Allah and His Messenger, He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire! (48:13). Although we are asked to be compassionate amongst each other, we have to be harsh with unbelievers, our Christian, Jewish and Atheist neighbours and colleagues (48:29). As for him who does not believe in Islam, the Prophet announces with a stern command: Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin. (69:30-37) The Qur'an prohibits a Muslim from befriending a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (9:23), (3:28). Our holy book asks us to be disobedient towards the disbelievers and their governments and strive against the unbelievers with great endeavour (25:52) and be stern with them because they belong to Hell (66:9). The holy Prophet prescribes fighting for us and tells us that it is good for us even if we dislike it (2:216). Then he advises us to strike off the heads of the disbelievers; and after making a wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives (47:4). Our God has promised to instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers and has ordered us to smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them (8:12). He also assures us that when we kill in his name it is not us who slay them but Allah, in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself (8:17). He orders us to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies (8:60). He has made the Jihad mandatory and warns us that Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place (9:39). Allah speaks to our Holy Prophet and says O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed (9:73).
He promises us that in the fight for His cause whether we slay or are slain we return to the garden of Paradise (9:111). In Paradise he will wed us with Houris (celestial virgins) pure beautiful ones (56:54), and unite us with large-eyed beautiful ones while we recline on our thrones set in lines (56:20). There we are promised to eat and drink pleasantly for what we did (56:19). He also promises boys like hidden pearls (56:24) and youth never altering in age like scattered pearls (for those who have paedophiliac inclinations) (76:19). As you see, Allah has promised all sorts or rewards, gluttony and unlimited sex to Muslim men who kill unbelievers in his name. We will be admitted to Paradise where we shall find goodly things, beautiful ones, pure ones confined to the pavilions that man has not touched them before nor jinni (56:67-71).In the West we enjoy freedom of belief but we are not supposed to give such freedom to anyone else because it is written If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good) (3:85). And He orders us to fight them on until there is no more tumult and faith in Allah is practiced everywhere (8:39). As for women the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (4:34). It advises to take a green branch and beat your wife, because a green branch is more flexible and hurts more. (38:44). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (2:228). It not only denies the women's equal right to their inheritance (4:11-12), it also regards them as imbeciles and decrees that their witness is not admissible in the courts of law (2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Our Holy Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many 'captive' women as we may have (4:3) even if those women are already married. He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women. Pakistani soldiers allegedly raped up to 250,000 Bengali women in 1971 after they massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religious leader decreed that Bangladeshis are un-Islamic. This is why the prison guards in Islamic regime of Iran rape the women that in their opinion are apostates prior to killing them, as they believe a virgin will not go to Hell.
Dear fellow Muslims:Is this the Islam you believe in? Is this your Most Merciful, Most Compassionate Allah whom you worship daily? Could Allah incite you to kill other peoples? Please understand that there is no terrorist gene - but there could be a terrorist mindset. That mindset finds its most fertile ground in the tenets of Islam. Denying it, and presenting Islam to the lay public as a religion of peace similar to Buddhism, is to suppress the truth. The history of Islam between the 7th and 14th centuries is riddled with violence, fratricide and wars of aggression, starting right from the death of the Prophet and during the so-called 'pure' or orthodox caliphate. And Muhammad himself hoisted the standard of killing, looting, massacres and bloodshed. How can we deny the entire history? The behaviour of our Holy Prophet as recorded in authentic Islamic sources is quite questionable from a modern viewpoint. The Prophet was a charismatic man but he had few virtues. Imitating him in all aspects of life (following the Sunnah) is both impossible and dangerous in the 21st century. Why are we so helplessly in denial over this simple issue? When the Prophet was in Mecca and he was still not powerful enough he called for tolerance. He said To you be your religion, and to me my religion (109:6). This famous quote is often misused to prove that the general principle of Qur'an is tolerance. He advised his follower to speak good to their enemies (2: 83), exhorted them to be patient (20:103) and said that there is no compulsion in religion (2:256). But that all changed drastically when he came to power. Then killing and slaying unbelievers with harshness and without mercy was justified in innumerable verses. The verses quoted to prove Islam's tolerance ignore many other verses that bear no trace of tolerance or forgiveness. Where is tolerance in this well-known verse Alarzu Lillah, Walhukmu Lillah. (The Earth belongs to Allah and thus only Allah's rule should prevail all over the earth.).Is it normal that a book revealed by God should have so many serious contradictions? The Prophet himself set the example of unleashing violence by invading the Jewish settlements, breaking treaties he had signed with them and banishing some of them after confiscating their belongings, massacring others and taking their wives and children as slaves. He inspected the youngsters and massacred all those who had pubic hair along with the men. Those who were younger he kept as slaves. He distributed the women captured in his raids among his soldiers keeping the prettiest for himself (33:50). He made sexual advances on Safiyah, a Jewish girl on the same day he captured her town Kheibar and killed her father, her husband and many of her relatives. Reyhana was another Jewish girl of Bani Quriza whom he used as a sex slave after killing all her male relatives. In the last ten years of his life he accumulated two scores of wives, concubines and sex slaves including the 9 year old Ayesha. These are not stories but records from authentic Islamic history and the Hadiths. It can be argued that this kind of behaviour was not unknown or unusual for the conquerors and leaders of the mediaeval world but these are not the activities befitting of a peaceful saint and certainly not someone who claimed to be the Mercy of God for all creation. There were known assassinations of adversaries during the Prophet's time, which he had knowledge of and had supported. Among them there was a 120 year old man, Abu 'Afak whose only crime was to compose a lyric satirical of the Prophet. (by Ibn Sa'd Kitab al Tabaqat al Kabir, Volume 2, page 32) Then when a poetess, a mother of 5 small children 'Asma' Bint Marwan wrote a poetry cursing the Arabs for letting Muhammad assassinate an old man, our Holy Prophet ordered her to be assassinated too in the middle of the night while her youngest child was suckling from her breast. (Sirat Rasul Allah (A. Guillaume's translation The Life of Muhammad) page 675, 676).The Prophet did develop a 'Robin Hood' image that justified raiding merchant caravans attacking cities and towns, killing people and looting their belongings in the name of social justice. Usama Bin Laden is also trying to create the same image. But Robin Hood didn't claim to be a prophet or a pacifist nor did he care for apologist arguments. He did not massacre innocent people indiscriminately nor did he profit by reducing free people to slaves and then trading them. With the known and documented violent legacy of Islam, how can we suddenly rediscover it as a religion of peace in the free world in the 21st century? Isn't this the perpetuation of a lie by a few ambitious leaders in order to gain political control of the huge and ignorant Muslim population? They are creating a polished version of Islam by completely ignoring history. They are propagating the same old dogma for simple believing people in a crisp new modern package. Their aim: to gain political power in today's high-tension world. They want to use the confrontational power of the original Islam to catalyse new conflicts and control new circles of power.
Dear conscientious Muslims, please question yourselves. Isn't this compulsive following of a man who lived 1400 years ago leading us to doom in a changing world? Do the followers of any other religion follow one man in such an all-encompassing way? Who are we deceiving, them or ourselves? Dear brothers and sisters, see how our Umma (people) has sunk into poverty and how it lags behind the rest of the world. Isn't it because we are following a religion that is outdated and impractical? In this crucial moment of history, when a great catastrophe has befallen us and a much bigger one is lying ahead, should not we wake up from our 1400 years of slumber and see where things have gone wrong? Hatred has filled the air and the world is bracing itself for its doomsday. Should we not ask ourselves whether we have contributed, wittingly or unwittingly, to this tragedy and whether we can stop the great disaster from happening?Unfortunately the answer to the first question is yes. Yes we have contributed to the rise of fundamentalism by merely claiming Islam is a religion of peace, by simply being a Muslim and by saying our shahada (testimony that Allah is the only God and Muhammad is his messenger). By our shahada we have recognized Muhammad as a true messenger of God and his book as the words of God. But as you saw above those words are anything but from God. They call for killing, they are prescriptions for hate and they foment intolerance. And when the ignorant among us read those hate-laden verses, they act on them and the result is the infamous September 11, human bombs in Israel, massacres in East Timor and Bangladesh, kidnappings and killings in the Philippines, slavery in the Sudan, honour killings in Pakistan and Jordan, torture in Iran, stoning and maiming in Afghanistan and Iran, violence in Algeria, terrorism in Palestine and misery and death in every Islamic country. We are responsible because we endorse Islam and hail it as a religion of God. And we are as guilty as those who put into practice what the Qur'an preaches - and ironically we are the main victims too. If we are not terrorists, if we love peace, if we cried with the rest of the word for what happened in New York, then why are we supporting the Qur'an that preaches killing, that advocates holy war, that calls for the murder of non-Muslims? It is not the extremists who have misunderstood Islam. They do literally what the Qur'an asks them to do. It is we who misunderstand Islam. We are the ones who are confused. We are the ones who wrongly assume that Islam is the religion of peace. Islam is not a religion of peace. In its so-called pure form it can very well be interpreted as a doctrine of hate. Terrorists are doing just that and we the intellectual apologists of Islam are justifying it. We can stop this madness. Yes, we can avert the disaster that is hovering over our heads. Yes, we can denounce the doctrines that promote hate. Yes, we can embrace the rest of humanity with love. Yes, we can become part of a united world, members of one human family, flowers of one garden. We can dump the claim of infallibility of our Book, and the questionable legacy of our Prophet.Dear friends, there is no time to waste. Let us put an end to this lie. Let us not fool ourselves. Islam is not a religion of peace, of tolerance, of equality or of unity of humankind. Let us read the Qur'an. Let us face the truth even if it is painful. As long as we keep this lie alive, as long as we hide our head in the sands of Arabia we are feeding terrorism. As long as you and I keep calling Qur'an the unchangeable book of God, we cannot blame those who follow the teachings therein. As long as we pay our Khums and Zakat our money goes to promote Islamic expansionism and that means terrorism, Jihad and war. Islam divides the world in two. Darul Harb (land of war) and Darul Islam (land of Islam). Darul Harb is the land of the infidels, Muslims are required to infiltrate those lands, proselytise and procreate until their numbers increase and then start the war and fight and kill the people and impose the religion of Islam on them and convert that land into Darul Islam. In all fairness we denounce this betrayal. This is abuse of the trust. How can we make war in the countries that have sheltered us? How can we kill those who have befriended us? Yet willingly or unwillingly we have become pawns in this Islamic Imperialism. Let us see what great Islamic scholars have had to say in this respect.Dr. M. Khan the translator of Sahih Bukhari and the Qur'an into English wrote: Allah revealed in Sura Bara'at (Repentance, IX) the order to discard (all) obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Pagans as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizia (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in 9:29). So the Muslims were not permitted to abandon the fighting against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and have the ability to fight against them. So at first the fighting was forbidden, then it was permitted, and after that it was made obligatory [Introduction to English translation of Sahih Bukhari, p.xxiv.] Dr. Sobhy as-Saleh, a contemporary Islamic academician quoted Imam Suyuti the author of Itqan Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an who wrote: The command to fight the infidels was delayed until the Muslims become strong, but when they were weak they were commanded to endure and be patient. [ Sobhy as_Saleh, Mabaheth Fi 'Ulum al- Qur'an, Dar al-'Ilm Lel-Malayeen, Beirut, 1983, p. 269.]Dr. Sobhy, in a footnote, commends the opinion of a scholar named Zarkashi who said: Allah the most high and wise revealed to Mohammad in his weak condition what suited the situation, because of his mercy to him and his followers. For if He gave them the command to fight while they were weak it would have been embarrassing and most difficult, but when the most high made Islam victorious He commanded him with what suited the situation, that is asking the people of the Book to become Muslims or to pay the levied tax, and the infidels to become Muslims or face death. These two options, to fight or to have peace return according to the strength or the weakness of the Muslims. [ibid p. 270]Other Islamic scholars (Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi, Ga'far ar-Razi, Rabi' Ibn 'Ons, 'Abil-'Aliyah, Abd ar-Rahman Ibn Zayd Ibn 'Aslam, etc.) agree that the verse Slay the idolaters wherever you find them (9:5) cancelled those few earlier verses that called for tolerance in the Qur'an and were revealed when Islam was weak. Can you still say that Islam is the religion of peace? We propose a solution.
We know too well that it is not easy to denounce our faith because it means denouncing a part of ourselves. We are a group of freethinkers and humanists with Islamic roots. Discovering the truth and leaving the religion of our fathers and forefathers was a painful experience. But after learning what Islam stands for we had no choice but to leave it. After becoming familiar with the Qur'an the choice became clear: It is either Islam or humanity. If Islam thrives, then humanity will die. We decided to side with humanity. Culturally we are still Muslims but we no longer believe in Islam as the true religion of God. We are humanists. We love humanity. We work for the unity of humankind. We work for equality between men and women. We strive for the secularisation of Islamic countries, for democracy and freedom of thought, belief and expression. We decided to live no longer in self-deception but to embrace humanity, and to enter into the new millennium hand in hand with people of other cultures and beliefs in amity and in peace.We denounce the violence that is eulogized in the Qur'an as holy war (Jihad). We condemn killing in the name of God. We believe in the sanctity of human life, not in the inviolability of beliefs and religions. We invite you to join us and the rest of humanity and become part of the family of humankind - in love, camaraderie and peace.
Arabic translation الترجمة العربية
See http://www.centerforinquiry.net/isis and http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/ for more.
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