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API test scores and real estate prices
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2012 Sep 25, 2:05am 42,853 views 138 comments
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Goran_K
2012 Sep 29, 1:45am
ok... money not being a factor, which BA high school would you suggest a child attend if their eventual goal was HYP?
Like bmwman91 said, go Private. Places like Head Royce in Oakland, or the schools mentioned by bmwman91 will get much better results than "Cupertino High". They are allowed more leeway in customizing their program for a more attractive student for admission to top universities. More resources overall than any public school. For the most part, the education program at public schools is dictated and "standardized" by the Chief Superintendent of Public Instruction and his staff. It's meant to meet STAR and CAHSEE standards. In effect, they are targeting and cultivating a program to beat a test benchmark. Does that sound like a program meant to create well rounded student? High API schools are especially good at indoctrinating students to this standard. Sure a few bright spots may escape the artificially imposed doldrums, but for the most part, you build great test takers.
This is anecdotal, but during my years at Wharton, I never met more than 1-2 people who were actually raised in the Bay Area, or anyone that was from a fortress city.
IMO, high API public schools build great drones, but poor leaders.
One factor that dosen't seem to have been covered here are the costs of college. Tuition, housing, etc arent chump change especially when discussing HYP. What good is going through all the trouble of getting your kid into HYP if s/he can't afford to it?
Actually, HYP, MIT, and S are more generous than tier-2 ivys when it comes to aid. If the parents can't afford, the admit will get a full ride (through private grants, etc).
Likewise, Tier-2 ivys are more generous than Devry/ITT :-)
money not being a factor, which BA high school would you suggest a child attend if their eventual goal was HYP?
Even though BA private schools send more kids to HYP than public ones, don't hold your hopes too high for HYP. The surest way to get to HYP is to become ultra-rich, like someone who made $100M from a startup; then you can get in that HYP club. The causation is other way: ultra wealthy usually send their kids to private schools, and they don't send their kids to public schools. So, many kids from these private schools end up at HYP, not so much because of the school they went to, but because of their parents' background. East coast prep schools follow the same process when it comes to their admissions: select kids from the elite.
For the upper middle class (like kids of somone who makes $1M a year), they can hire a consultant from Ivywise.com and pay $30K when the kid is in junior high. This consultant can tell you how to game the system.
It is easy to get into tier-2 Ivys from BA private schools, though.
When people say HYP, it is just HYP, not the other 5.
Tier 1 Ivy: HYP
Tier 2 Ivy: Columbia, Penn
Tier 2.5 Ivy: Dart (since this can be part of 2 or 3, depending on who you ask)
Tier 3 Ivy: Cornell, Brown
Penn State = poor man's Penn:)
Same with the UC system
1: B, LA, SD
2: SB, Davis, Irvine
3. Riverside, Santa Cruz, Merced
New Renter
2012 Sep 29, 4:55am
The surest way to get to HYP is to become ultra-rich, like someone who made $100M from a startup; then you can get in that HYP club.
With a trust fund of $100M why bother with college at all?
With a trust fund of $100M why bother with college at all?
Maybe, to meet kids of billionaires or powerful politicians, so that one can turn that $100M into $1B. And the middle class folks go there to join the upper middle class. The upper middle class go there to keep the dough coming.
why the ultra wealthy kids go to prep schools rather than to public schools? Just to avoid proles/commoners
Some ultra wealthy kids go there to just get a degree. I know of someone whose dad donated $5M to Stanford, and she got a Ph.D in some humanities department (which I don't want to disclose) for nothing. The dissertation committe members were told not bother the candidate, and were asked to approve the thesis.
New Renter
2012 Sep 29, 2:38pm
Maybe, to meet kids of billionaires or powerful politicians, so that one can turn that $100M into $1B.
So join a political campaign, set up fundraisers, buy a dressage horse, whatever. There are lots of ways a wealthy person can meet wealthier people without the HYP.
So join a political campaign, set up fundraisers, buy a dressage horse, whatever. There are lots of ways a wealthy person can meet wealthier people without the HYP.
Sure. But the ultra wealthy parents want their kids to get 4 years college education. If they go to UCB, they end up getting flunked. If they go to any private school (like southern elite going to SMU), the faculty gives them gentleman b grades for nothing. And HYP is happy to admit such kids.
Just like Cupertino parents, who don't want their kids to mingle with other kids like in Mendota/Gilroy high school, the wealthy parents pick their options. Once they graduate, they can do whatever they want: horse races; campaigns; etc
So, let's make sure I have your logic straight.
Ultra-selective & expensive private schools are best to get into a top university. But a top-tier public school is worse than a "hood high" because
Goran_K says
going to a hyper-competitive school can actually hurt an applicants case because it's so much harder to bubble to the top, where if they had gone to a slightly less competitive school, they would have been in the Top 5%
IMO, high API public schools build great drones, but poor leaders.
and I'm led to assume you believe that hood-high builds greater leaders than high API schools?
--
Logic tells me that the chances of a kid attending university increases
hood public HS - good public HS - top-tier public - top-tier private
Now, people might pick one which they believe is the best "value" all other things being equal.
-If money is of absolutely no concern, than top tier private.
-Someone else might believe that since RE costs can be "passed thru" the top-tier public is the best value
-Someone else might believe all that's necessary is to "grow a pair" and RAISE kids and are indifferent to the difference in schools.
New Renter
2012 Oct 3, 3:40am
So join a political campaign, set up fundraisers, buy a dressage horse, whatever. There are lots of ways a wealthy person can meet wealthier people without the HYP.
Sure. But the ultra wealthy parents want their kids to get 4 years college education. If they go to UCB, they end up getting flunked. If they go to any private school (like southern elite going to SMU), the faculty gives them gentleman b grades for nothing. And HYP is happy to admit such kids.
Just like Cupertino parents, who don't want their kids to mingle with other kids like in Mendota/Gilroy high school, the wealthy parents pick their options. Once they graduate, they can do whatever they want: horse races; campaigns; etc
Wanna secure your future? Become a locksmith!
So the uberwealthy want their kids to get an education and pay exhorberant rates for HYP with the understanding if their kids suck they will be assured passing grades.
Something here isn't adding up.
BTW the not so uberwealthy can get a similar deal at any school of choice. A fat donation (but still less than 4 years at HYP) will swing the same understanding.
So the uberwealthy want their kids to get an education and pay exhorberant rates for HYP with the understanding if their kids suck they will be assured passing grades.
HYP want the uberwealthy kids as their alumni, not so much for their fees, but to continue the elitist status. Of course, the uberwealthy can donate $50M just like that to HYP, unlike the plastic surgeon parents, who make $2M a year. So, the plastic surgeon parents play a different game for their kids to get into HYP: sending to best prep schools, sending kids to Africa for some non-profit work, etc.
HYP keep 'unofficial' recruiting officials, whose sole purpose is to bring in the kids of billionaires to their schools, just like the way they do in sports recruiting. This recruiting helps them on two fronts: fat donations; elitist status. This is another reason why they put a cap on the number of Asian/Indian kids they can admit. The said recruiting officials go to elite prep schools like Phillips academy and look for the kids of the uberwealthy, and beg them to join their schools; a typical Cupertino parent thinks that going to east coast prep schools help them secure a spot in HYP. It does not work that way.
Sure, the uberwealthy can send their kids to Humboldt state university, or Portland State or Fresno State. It is like asking a billionaire whether he can afford a Ferrari or Honda Civic.
In general, private schools, unlike public ones, don't give F grades. This is true even for Notre Dame de Namur University, Belmont and for Menlo College. However, instructors at UCB are ruthless when it comes to grading!! If you go to a private school, however low ranked it might be, you will be guaranteed to graduate;it is not the case in public schools.
Goran_K
2012 Oct 3, 4:10am
and I'm led to assume you believe that hood-high builds greater leaders than high API schools?
I'm not saying Hood High builds better leaders, you're combining two different points into one, so the comparison loses meaning. What I'm saying on that particular point is that the difference between paying $250 a sqft more for a house for Cupertino High because it's in the CUSD, doesn't make sense over Dublin High, or Benicia or any other school where housing is MUCH cheaper, and the difference in API score is 30-50 points. Schools like Harvard, Princeton, UPenn etc, don't even see the API score of the freshman applicants because that's not the criteria they use to admit freshmen.
To go even further, my main point, and what we're really talking about here is an educational and instructional approach. For that, you can't go simply by API score, parents need to do their research on what the school offers,and how their programs help kids become better students, and innovators. This (and all the intricacies within) are what top tier schools use to admit students. So in THEORY, someone from 850 API HIGH could have a much better chance than someone from 950 API HIGH. You just need to do the research.
Like I said before, judging a school "top tier" just because it has a high API score is as lazy as saying the car with the highest HP will lap the fastest lap.
Wanderer
2012 Oct 3, 9:25am
I don't see my other one is motivated as the first one and only explanation I see is the school.
Really? You don't think there's any chance your kids could like, be two different people?
I graduated from UCSD having transferred there from community college. I had absolutely no means of going it any other way but isn't sending your kids to all the best schools (and paying for it) pretty risky when the only real advantage is some good ol' boy connections they MIGHT make? Otherwise, having a STEM degree from a state school seems to yield about the same results.
You're right, they are different. However, before we moved the second child to a different school (same city), her grades were always better than the first one. Not anymore. Can't say it any better than this:
zhanka says
Kids personalities are defined by those they hang around with.
I have other examples, 3 different families (our friends) decided to move their kids from private schools to a good public schools (Los Gatos and Cupertino), all those kids were doing good before, now 2 kids are failing HS and have some other issues, other one is just not doing as good as he did in Harker.
The rout you took thru community collegeI is fine for kids I will quote myself:
zhanka says
For those of you who has kids who know what they want and how to get it, it doesn't matter what school they are going, but for all other it does make a difference.
Goran_K,
Meaningless bump, but did you end up buying a house in a school district with a high API score?
Goran_K
2013 Jun 28, 4:36am
My kids are in private school, but I'm assuming all the schools in Laguna Beach are probably 900+ API schools (haven't checked).
all those kids were doing good before, now 2 kids are failing HS and have some other issues, other one is just not doing as good as he did in Harker.
I was flipping through the channels last week and came across a local HS quiz show. The kids from Menlo Park were giving Harker students a good beat down. I know, three students is not a representative sample size, but it still put a smile on my face.
evilmonkeyboy
2013 Jun 28, 10:21am
My kids are in private school, but I'm assuming all the schools in Laguna Beach are probably 900+ API schools (haven't checked).
884 which is not to shabby.
This is anecdotal, but during my years at Wharton, I never met more than 1-2 people who were actually raised in the Bay Area, or anyone that was from a fortress city.
vast majority went to Santa Clara University, San Jose State, Hayward, Sact, SLO, and a few from UCB and Stanford. The vast Majority found jobs in Silicon valley during the tech boom years.. 1960-1999... what you call the best like Wharton, never made to Silicon Valley. That is more recent events around here.
You think the Palo Alto, Cupertino buyers, the most educated in the world got it all wrong?
what you see today, was not always true in the past decades. it certainly no bearing were you came from and were you eventually made your career at. 15 years ago.. NO ONE EVERY heard of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto or Cupertino.
Goran_K
2013 Jun 28, 10:46am
vast majority went to Santa Clara University, San Jose State, Hayward, Sact, SLO, and a few from UCB and Stanford. The vast Majority found jobs in Silicon valley during the tech boom years.. 1960-1999... what you call the best like Wharton, never made to Silicon Valley. That is more recent events around here.
What are you talking about Thomas? Leonard Bosack who founded Cisco is a Wharton alumnus. So is Elon Musk. Tons of Wharton alumni have shaped and reshaped Silly-Con Valley yesterday, and today.
What are you talking about Thomas? Leonard Bosack who founded Cisco is a Wharton alumnus. So is Elon Musk. Tons of Wharton alumni have shaped and reshaped Silly-Con Valley yesterday, and today.
flip a coin.. chances are slim.. your chances are less than 1%. the vast majority who were employed in SV that came from local schools went to SJSU, Fresno State and not so high profile universities. Many in the past had no interest in California SVs at best mybe Route 128 - Boston.
B.A.C.A.H.
2013 Jun 30, 3:32pm
Hey thomas, maybe we'll meet up. I plan to be at Los Gatos Roasting Co. around 10:30 AM on Sat 7/6. I will be easy to spot: the one haolie who doesn't fit in with the hipsters.
Goran_K
2013 Jul 1, 1:22am
flip a coin.. chances are slim.. your chances are less than 1%. the vast majority who were employed in SV that came from local schools went to SJSU, Fresno State and not so high profile universities. Many in the past had no interest in California SVs at best mybe Route 128 - Boston.
I'm sure the majority of basic engineers, IT admins, or other working cogs came from local universities.
But a lot of the movers and leaders in Silly-con valley are Wharton alum, I could literally name a dozen.
mdiablo
2013 Jul 1, 8:43am
ZipRealty put out a list in May of school districts with the best combination of schools and home prices. They use their proprietary School Score rating, which seems to be based on the API, although they don't say how it's calculated. Here was the top-10 for the BA:
- San Ramon Valley Unified: School Score 9.1/Median Price per SF $304
- Sunol Glen Unified: School Score 9.3/Median Price per SF $356
- Piedmont Unified: School Score 9.5/Median Price per SF $539
- Palo Alto Unified: School Score 9.2/Median Price per SF $885
- Castro Valley Unified: School Score 8/Median Price per SF $265
- Dublin Unified: School Score 8.4/Median Price per SF $265
- Pleasanton Unified: School Score 8.6/Median Price per SF $332
- Albany Unified: School Score 8.6/Median Price per SF $419
- Benicia Unified: School Score 7.8/Median Price per SF $181
- Martinez Unified: School Score 7.8/Median Price per SF $185
Sunol Glen, for what it's worth, is a single K-8 school with 250 kids.
Goran_K
2013 Jul 1, 9:03am
Benicia was one of the cities I brought up on the very first page of this posting:
The question we're really considering here is if a student who goes to 830 API Benicia High School, where homes are selling for $130-$160 a sqft, is really worse off than another student who went to 893 API Cupertino High where homes are selling $600 - $700 a sqft?
I still maintain the viewpoint that all parents really need to do the research on the school programs offered, their quality, and how it will mesh with what they know of their child's abilities, and interest. If people can compare LCD TVs online for an hour or two, you can use that time to do research on the school you're going to put your child into.
bmwman91
2013 Jul 1, 9:27am
If people are really THAT nutty about the schools, then they should quit bitching and go private/parochial. People get so ridiculously worked up over school districts, it is just hilarious. Yeah yeah "I am not a parent so I don't understand." Apparently there isn't room for kids AND common sense in anyone's life anymore.
I'm sure the majority of basic engineers, IT admins, or other working cogs came from local universities.
But a lot of the movers and leaders in Silly-con valley are Wharton alum, I could literally name a dozen.
In a sea of Thousands of companies of the past several decades .. you come up with a dozen. Knock yourself out. There isnt enough from UCB or Stanford to East Coast top schools to have created all these companies. Its media fiction ever since year 2000. We certainly did hear such crap before.. until the media start with the hype.
Its a shame you werent here some 30 years ago to witness all this. But no one was interested in this.. I doubt any parent could understand why child wanted a crazy Degree in Computer Programming. Thats what they called it back than.
We had some great people who are not IVY league, UCB or Stanford..
who are worth their weight in gold... really great hard workers who shaped
this region to be the top leader in their field. Never disrespect them.
If people are really THAT nutty about the schools,
LOL! the people who are concerned start their planing for private schools decades
in advance.. and it works well for them. All this stuff today is just Nutty as hell.
Hey thomas, maybe we'll meet up. I plan to be at Los Gatos Roasting Co. around 10:30 AM on Sat 7/6. I will be easy to spot: the one haolie who doesn't fit in with the hipsters.
no, we dont get much hipsters in LG much.. but you will see the Harley crowd coming through down town ....
we may meet one day.
Palo Alto Unified: School Score 9.2/Median Price per SF $885
How does Palo Alto even end up on that list? That range suggests a weird criteria. Where is Marin Co?
15 years ago.. NO ONE EVERY heard of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto or Cupertino.
Surely You're Joking, Mr. Wong.
Maybe you meant 150 years ago?
mdiablo
2013 Jul 1, 1:08pm
Palo Alto Unified: School Score 9.2/Median Price per SF $885
How does Palo Alto even end up on that list? That range suggests a weird criteria. Where is Marin Co?
Yeah, I thought that one was strange too. The Piedmont price per sf seems low as well.
Here's the link:
http://ir.ziprealty.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=180169&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1821084
Surely You're Joking, Mr. Wong.
Maybe you meant 150 years ago?
only after the late big 90s IPO Tech stock bubble began to form,
did people start to notice..
the modern day version of the California Gold Rush.
Had it not happened, and we had normal valuations, half the people
wouldnt be here today.. its that simple.
How is your experience 30 years ago even relevent to the young kids of today?
as Andrew Dice Clay said..
Whats the Fucking Difference !
Its the same $200K home someone paid a few years back,
and now someone wants $1 Million like it was Taj Mahal.
Unbelievable.. the kind of shit people come up with.
Have you ever heard of a lawyer at the partner level, Director or anyone that makes great money that think 880 API is anything? 880 is a deal breaker.
No one is looking for another Lawyer around these parts. Already have enough
880 API or higher makes no difference.
Why do people kill themselves to get into a place with a good school district? Because they don't want to spend $25-$30K per year for 12-13 years per child to send their kids to good schools. It's that simple. And that's today's money.
Think about it...why spend/piss away $350-$400K per child to send your kids to private ($800K for me) when you can spend an extra $100-$200K to get your kid into a district with good schools, and get your money back when you sell your home?
Also, in my opinion, there is a lot of misguided info in this thread. I understand APIs well...I was a school board member.
Just because one school's API is 940 and another is 880 does not mean the 940 is the better school. Maybe if the disparity was 900 vs 700. A lot depends on the makeup of the school. To me, a 10-10 school scoring 880 is better than an 8-9 school scoring 940.
My own kids go to a school that is 940-950. The hottest school in the district is a 905 school that is 10-10, another with dual immersion that is also 905. That's where the good teaching is happening. Wouldn't hesitate to send my kids to either.
I went to an exclusive boys prep school back east. Also went to a top state university. My friend and I joke about our school (now coed). He went to Duke and is a lawyer, and his wife is also a high flying patent attorney. He said he is sending all three of his kids to the local public high school and then the state school, which is only top 100. Not worth it to lay out big bucks when the kids get pretty much the same education and get admitted to many of the same universities.
Unless your kid gets into HYP or Stanford, their life chances aren't going to be much better than those who go to good state schools. If your kid is smart enough to get into one of those elite schools, it won't matter if they go to Harvard Westlake or Culver City. They will likely get in no matter which they attend.
IMHO, go to a good public school system and save your cash.
New Renter
2013 Jul 1, 3:14pm
Why do people kill themselves to get into a place with a good school district? Because they don't want to spend $25-$30K per year for 12-13 years per child to send their kids to good schools. It's that simple. And that's today's money.
Think about it...why spend/piss away $350-$400K per child to send your kids to private ($800K for me) when you can spend an extra $100-$200K to get your kid into a district with good schools, and get your money back when you sell your home?
Well in the SFBA you can buy a house in East Palo Alto for $400-700k or a similar house a few miles west in Palo Alto for $1.4-1.7M+. And THAT's for a 50 year old Eichler crapbox.
Granted there is a non trivial personal safety factor to be considered as well.
You have a serious reading comprehension problem. lol
nobody was using the local education system to justify some high home prices...
you just did not see that as the big thing going around the valley when it came
to buying a home... no wonder everyone was actually saving money for retirement.
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