patrick.net

marcus says

"Racebaiter" is code for "yes I'm a racist, but if you bring it up I'll call you a racebaiter."

That's Code for Marcus is a Race baiting Moron. And clearly not very creative with Photo shop, I expect better out of you pal. Where's your race baiting Photoshopped picture to accompany your baseless assertion?

Well go get it, I'll wait...

In order to be a race baiter, you have to deliberately try to deceive someone into thinking that race is an issue where it is not. Although such people exist, I have not seen any postings that lead me to believe anyone on patrick.net is race baiting.

The postings that do deal with race appear, as far as I can tell, to be genuine and honest appraisals. Now, I can't be 100% sure that someone isn't lying, except for myself. And I am absolutely sure, that I do not believe the above stickers were made by race baiters and that those particular stickers are racist and moronic.

Since this is an election year, stickers like the ones above are news. If this is the campaign that Republican voters are going to run -- the politicians sure won't -- then Romney is going to lose.

As I've always said, the Republicans need to lay off b.s. issues on Obama like his birth certificate and being a secret Muslim and address real issues. They aren't doing that.

Romney is correct when he said Obama failed to fix the economy, but Romney's plan is a utter failure too. Cutting the taxes of the richest 1% and deregulating is exactly what got us into this depression and created the income gap we have today. Of course, Obama's not doing anything to fix the economy either. Eventually, the banks will have bled enough of our money through inflation and low interest rates that the depression will end, sometime between 2016 and 2020.

CaptainShuddup says

Well go get it, I'll wait...

As usual tpb, I can't comprehend you.

I was just making the observation that it's the racists that:

1) refuse to admit, "yeah you're right charge zimmerman."

2) Say that that kind of racism that would lead to police NOT charging Zimmerman with manslaughter or worse (of a black teen) does not exist.

3) Calls those who say it does still exist, and probably was the reason for cops not charging zimmerman, "racebaiter."

What a joke.

Dan8267 says

In order to be a race baiter, you have to deliberately try to deceive someone into thinking that race is an issue where it is not.

O.K. you can have the big Panda or the Mirror K.C. and the Sunshine band plaque.

Bap33 says

When a person walks like a duck, flys like a duck, and quacks, they sometimes may be mistaken for a duck.

But it's still illegal to shoot the person even if you think he's a duck.

Dan8267 says

But it's still illegal to shoot the person even if you think he's a duck.

Well, unless you're the vice president.

OK Here's the Proof, the FACTS to support my assertion, that if blacks were to beat down a white guy it would not be a hate crime.

"Die Cracker Die!"

A 78-year-old Ohio man says he was a victim of a hate crime when he was severely beaten by group of youths -- who allegedly said "this is for Trayvon," referring to the unarmed black Florida teen killed by a neighborhood watch volunteer.

The man, Dallas Watts of East Toledo, told police he was walking home Saturday afternoon when he was confronted by six youths, both white and black, ages 11 to 17, FoxToledo.com reports. One of the youths allegedly said "take him down."

Watts said he told the youths, "Why me? Remember Trayvon." He told FoxToledo.com that he meant it in a "peaceful way," since he had nothing to do with the Florida killing. But police suggest the youths may have misinterpreted Watts' words as threatening.

"[Get] that white [man]. This is for Trayvon ... Trayvon lives, white [man]. Kill that white [man]," the boys are quoted as saying in a police report cited by the Toledo Blade.

Three of the six youths have been charged in the case, but police interviews didn't yield enough evidence to support hate crime charges, FoxToledo.com reported.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/05/trayvon-martin-case-looms-over-beating-78-year-old-ohio-man/?test=latestnews#content#ixzz1rDitWbJn

Bap33 says

THe same number of people seen Zim pursue as did see the prowler peeping in windows. Exact same amount.

Let me make a clear and distinct point to you. No one has to have seen Zimmerman pursuing Martin because there is other evidence that supports this. Martin's body was found in the back yard of two residences away from the street. Zimmerman was in his car talking to the 911 operator and five minutes later when the police arrived, Martin is shot dead nowhere near his car.

Here is the police report.

http://mit.zenfs.com/102/2012/04/69081607-29132322.pdf

Notice where it states Martin's body was found - In between 1231 Twin Trees Ln. and 2821 Retreat View Circle. If you put those two addresses into google maps, you will notice that the back yards of each back up to one another.

Are you following yet? In order for Martin's body to get into the backyard between two residences, Zimmerman had to pursue him there. Zim was in his car, which is on the street. He shots Zimmerman in the backyard. By definition he had to pursue him there. Unless you are claiming Martin pulled him out of his car and into the backyard. Is that what you are claiming?

Bap33 says

you are calling an operator an agent of the police?? explain what that means? I mean, I am pretty sure a neighborhood watchmen is an agent of the police too, then.

Definition of AGENT:
one who is authorized to act for or in the place of another: as a representative, emissary, or official of a government.

A 911 operator is authorized by the police to act in their place while dealing with emergency calls on the telephone. Zimmerman was not authorized by the police to act on their behalf. A 911 operator is granted some authority, Zimmerman is not.

See the difference?

CaptainShuddup says

OK Here's the Proof, the FACTS to support my assertion, that if blacks were to beat down a white guy it would not be a hate crime.

From the article.

Three of the six youths have been charged in the case, but police interviews didn't yield enough evidence to support hate crime charges, FoxToledo.com reported.

The article just says that in this one particular case the police did not believe they had sufficient evidence to charge the youths with a hate crime, but three of them were charged with crimes.

As to why the police didn't have enough evidence or how close they got, the article doesn't say. It simply does not go into sufficient detail for me to render an opinion of whether or not the police did due diligence. However, when was the last time police discriminated in favor of African Americans?

If everything the victim said could be collaborated, then I'd say the crime qualifies as a hate crime. But I can't tell what evidence the police have this article.

david1 says

In between 1231 Twin Trees Ln. and 2821 Retreat View Circle.

Yep. Martin was retreating and Zimmerman was following. That's not standing your ground. That's taking ground.

if blacks were to beat down a white guy it would not be a hate crime.

The black guy will get arrest for sure.

If Zimmerman is black and Martin is white, Zimmerman will get arrest.
We will not talk about this right now.

It is clearly unfair for black people.

Edit: corrected :)

xenogear3 says

Dan8267 says

if blacks were to beat down a white guy it would not be a hate crime.

Um, it wasn't me who said that. Your citing incorrectly.

david1 says

A 911 operator is granted some authority, Zimmerman is not.

you are wrong here. May want to recheck facts.

The prowler was caught prowling and attacked. Prowlers do their work in odd locations. Not much else to say there. Had the ativity taken place in the front yard of Martin's home, then there would be an issue.

@Dan,
you are correct about the duck thing.

I heard on MAIN STREAM MEDIA this morning that Trayvon was on the street because he was suspended from school...he wasn't a Choir boy. That he was a football player at his school...he wasn't a little, weak, kid. That he was 6' 3" tall...6 inches taller than Zimmerman.

Why is the media trying to race bait this issue??? Are their ratings so terrible that they have to stoop so low as to manufacture falsehoods to raise their ratings ???

Would Bernard Getz have let his skull get bashed in, or would he have defended himself?

Honest Abe says

I heard on MAIN STREAM MEDIA this morning that Trayvon was on the street because he was suspended from school.

?? this makes not sense. What does a school suspension have to do with being on a street at night?

Also, Trayvon's suspension record has already been discussed at length in this thread. This is not new news to us.

Honest Abe says

That he was a football player at his school...he wasn't a little, weak, kid. That he was 6' 3" tall...6 inches taller than Zimmerman.

So... open season on anyone you see taller than you?

Zimmerman has a history of violence and confrontations with others. Trayvon did not. It is unlikely that Trayvon initiated a violent confrontation.

What evidence do you have that "it is unlikely" that Trayvon initiated a violent confrontation.

Isn't the word "unlikely" rather subjective?

BTW, If you had a 6'3" football player on top of you, at night, bashing your head in...what would you do? Seriously -give me a straight answer to that.

leoj707 says

?? this makes not sense. What does a school suspension have to do with being on a street at night?

He was with his dad, visiting relatives, on a weekend. AFAIK, no public schools operate on Weekends.

I love the desperate attempts by White Whines to smear Trayvon. The kid had no history of violence and his suspensions were all for routine dumb kid shit.

Whereas we know that Zimmerman had violence in his background: Two confirmed Charges for violent crimes, mysteriously dropped, plus an unsubstantiated report of being fired for over the top zealousness as a security guard. The latter won't be confirmed until this case goes to trial, because the security company would fear a lawsuit if they released the information to the public. His inability to get accepted at any Police Academy when it was a lifetime goal also infers some reservations about his behavior.

Honest Abe says

BTW, If you had a 6'3" football player on top of you, at night, bashing your head in...what would you do? Seriously -give me a straight answer to that.

He looks more like a kicker than a quarterback. Kid has a lanky, gawky body type. And Zimmerman followed Tray, not Tray followed Zimmerman.

Honest Abe says

What evidence do you have that "it is unlikely" that Trayvon initiated a violent confrontation.

Have you been reading this entire thread? Please do for more detail, but the basics:

1. Based on the current evidence Zimmerman's story seems to be likely a fabrication, in part or entirely.

2. Zimmerman has a history of violence and stalking others.
a. Domestic violence
b. Fired from security job for being too aggressive
c. Assaulting a police officer
d. Following another driver after a road-rage incident
e. etc. I think I am forgetting something you can read the thread for other examples of his history

3. Trayvon has no violent history

4. Zimmerman pursued Trayvon

5. Zimmerman was not the person calling for help that night (as was his story); so the person calling for help was probably Trayvon

Yes, based on what we know so far I think that it is unlikely Trayvon instigated any violence that night.

Honest Abe says

Isn't the word "unlikely" rather subjective?

It means that while I think that it is possible that Trayvon was the instigator of violence he probably was not.

Honest Abe says

BTW, If you had a 6'3" football player on top of you, at night, bashing your head in...what would you do? Seriously -give me a straight answer to that.

You mean after I had stalked him and confronted him while he was out for a night time stroll and then tried to detain him? Is he crying for help during this time? Are the blows he is raining down on me light enough as to leave no marks? Am I a much shorter man with an aggressive authority complex? Do I feel emboldened by having the power of a gun in my pocket?

thunderlips11 says

He looks more like a kicker than a quarterback. Kid has a lanky, gawky body type.

Yep, he did not have the countenance of a fearsome brute.

Honest Abe says

What evidence do you have that "it is unlikely" that Trayvon initiated a violent confrontation.

Isn't the word "unlikely" rather subjective?

WE know that Martin was where he was supposed to be. He was staying in the gated community with his fathers Fiance. Maybe in his past experience he had lived places where he was permitted to be out and around the neighborhood at 7PM without anyone thinking that's suspicious.

We actually have no idea what precipitated the shooting. All we know for certain is Zimmerman's history, that he thought Martin looked suspicious, and that he followed him and ultimately confronted him.

It's reasonable to assume that Martin would have been motivated by fear if he did in fact beat up on Zimmerman. And it may be that Zimmerman tried to hold MArtin for police, something that was not his right if Zimmerman wasn't doing anything wrong.

(note: that doesn't mean that it wouldn't have been wise for Martin to submit to Zimmerman - but it also doesn't mean that Zimmerman didn't commit murder)

Honest Abe says

Why is the media trying to race bait this issue???

Abe doesn't even see race he is so far above being racist that even now he is not aware that race could have anything to do with Zimmerman's perception of MArtin as suspicious, or with Zimmerman's not being charged with anything (and given a fair trial).

Anyone who even suggests such a thing is "racebaiting."

Right.

Marcus - yep, its reasonable to A.S.S.U.M.E. Thats an acrynom for something, isn't it?

Your are correct, I judge people by the content of their character, not by the color of their skin...but that's not what the media is doing- is it?

How many black males got shot dead TODAY, somewhere in America, by another black male?

Where's the screaming headlines? Just askin.

Honest Abe says

How many black males got shot dead TODAY, somewhere in America, by another black male?

Where's the screaming headlines? Just askin.

Your logic is too good for me. That proves that race was not a factor in Zimmerman following Martin, and that it wasn't a factor in Zimmerman not being arrested.

What was I thinking ?

Honest Abe says

yep, its reasonable to A.S.S.U.M.E. Thats an acrynom for something, isn't it?

Acronym? No. The saying is "to assume makes an ass out of u and me".

Marcus...I GET IT!! Zimmerman is guilty of ThoughtCrime.

He was THINKING: "I don't like this BLACK MAN bashing my head in so I guess I'll just shoot him".

Lets bring in the ThoughtPolice and get this matter solved once and for all! Case closed.

Honest Abe says

He was THINKING: "I don't like this BLACK MAN bashing my head in so I guess I'll just shoot him".

OBviously you are one of the idiots that thinks Zimmerman should be tried (in your case defended) here on the internet.

I'm only saying he needs to be charged so that he can be given a fair trial.

He shot and killed a man !

Why would you argue this Abe ? Does your "I only see the content of a man's character," have you confused ?

marcus says

I'm only saying he needs to be charged so that he can be given a fair trial.

A week or so ago you called Zim a murdering racist. It was back when Spike Lee was doing what he could to get a lynch mod to Zim's house to win the bounty for his head that the Black Panthers have in place. Your new position is easier for me to support. If he is charged with a possible crime in connection with his self defense claim, then a fair trail is a fair request.

In order to charge him with murder or manslaughter it has to be reasonable to believe that he may have indeed committed such a crime.

The fact that I think it is at least manslaughter (this was asserted as an opinion) is directly tied to how outrageous I think it is that he wasn't even charged. And yes I still think it likely that race was a factor in Zimmerman following MArtin, his thinking he was suspicious, and in the police not charging him.

Bap33 says

It was back when Spike Lee was doing what he could to get a lynch mod to Zim's house to win the bounty for his head that the Black Panthers have in place.

All of this was done out of outrage over the injustice of his not even being charged. I understand why you are not able to comprehend that.

It's the same reason why you confuse arguing that someone is POTENTIALLY guilty enough that they should be charged, with an argument that they are so guilty that they don't even need to be charged and cshould be executed now.

MY position isn't new. It's just clarified because I realized that the distinction in the previous paragraph was one you were blind to for some reason.

What happened ? The Easter weekend help you realize you should stop trolling this thread ? What is it, you get some religion ?

http://www.O2cCuadivpE

marcus says

Bap33 says

It was back when Spike Lee was doing what he could to get a lynch mod to Zim's house to win the bounty for his head that the Black Panthers have in place.

marcus said: All of this was done out of outrage over the injustice of his not even being charged. I understand why you are not able to comprehend that.

to be clear ... Zim being outraged by the crime in his area being carried out by young negro men has no value, but attempted murder by Spike and killer for hire by Black Panthers is no biggie ... that's your position?

Bap33 says

Zim being outraged by the crime in his area being carried out by young negro men has no value, but attempted murder by Spike and killer for hire by Black Panthers is no biggie ... that's your position?

I never said anything about any of these. You forgot to bring in the word prowler again.

It would be as if I wanted to talk about democrats versus republican on taxes, and you were totally unable to even enter the conversation except to assert, "all I know is those same democrats are in favor gay marriage."

One thing at a time man.

IF some prominent figure at one moment of emotion said something stupid, so ? Jackson and others have condemned what the "New Black Panthers" (all six of them) have said, and leaders of the real Black Panthers and others have disassociated themselves from them and their use of that name.

http://www.blackpanther.org/newsalert.htm

Why can't you understand why emotions run so high with some African Americans over this ? Instead of beginning to see the source of their emotion, all you can do is react to their reaction.

What about the original thing they were reacting to ? Why so hard for you to appreciate that. Sad to say I know the answer.

But can you at least consider the question ?

marcus says

Zim being outraged by the crime in his area being carried out by young negro men has no value

I will acknowledge that Zimmerman may have been very very very stupid, or even semi retarded, possibly unable to tell the difference between a 1 in 100 chance versus a 50 50 chance. (of Martin being a criminal just because he was black). But none the less, it's still racism. That's really all racism is (stupidity and ignorance).

OF course on top of being not so bright, evidence of his history suggests emotional challenges. This is also suggested by his following Martin and possibly confronting him or trying to detain him.

marcus says

Why can't you understand why emotions run so high with some African Americans over this ? Instead

because I firmly belive in treating all people equal no matter the color of their skin. I am not a racist. A racist looks at the skin color and then decides what atitude or action is acceptable. I disagree with being a racist and doing that. So, no free pass for the racebaitors, sorry.

you allowfor outrage from one, and not the other, based ONLY on race. That is a bad situation, in my opinion.

Bap33 says

I disagree with being a racist and doing that. So, no free pass for the racebaitors, sorry

Okay, well, I'm not mad at you Bap, you can't help it.

Bap33 says

you allowfor outrage from one, and not the other, based ONLY on race. That is a bad situation, in my opinion.

I'm assuming that if you had a coherent point to make you would have made it ?

I allow for people (myself included ) being outrage that Zimmerman wasn't charged with a crime.

And yes I don't have particular outrage against individuals who make fools of them self over this, nor do I have a problem with you being outraged over their momentary expression being picked up and magnified by the right wing media.

But newsflash: When you can't comment intelligently about an issue without constantly twisting it around and focusing only on what a few of the most emotional unfortunate comments wereabout it, or without being defensive of Zimmerman, it shows where your attention seems desperately to want to go.

As I said, I'm not mad at you Bap.

I have no doubt that you harbor no anger

Zimmerman's new attorneys quit: The Client has been incommunicado and calling Talk Shows against their advice.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/04/10/george-zimmermans-attorneys-withdraw-from-case/

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57412307/where-is-george-zimmerman/
If they arrested him in the first place and let the legal system run its course, this wouldn't be an issue.

Maybe he's sipping Mate in Buenos Aires.

If he did get charged with anything, even a misdemeanor, he would be looking at a minimum of 25 years in prison due to Florida's 20-10-Life law. Yep, it makes sense for him to skip town before they press charges.

He'd half to leave the country to be relatively safe though, in a country with no extradition treaties. Still, given the alternative, I think most people would do so.

Dan8267 says

If he did get charged with anything, even a misdemeanor, he would be looking at a minimum of 25 years in prison due to Florida's 20-10-Life law. Yep, it makes sense for him to skip town before they press charges.

He'd half to leave the country to be relatively safe though, in a country with no extradition treaties. Still, given the alternative, I think most people would do so.

If he goes to prison for 25 years he is a deadman. Since there are reports he is going to be charged, he better have his bags packed.

Wonder what Hannitty will say? Can't wait to hear his reaction to Zim being charged. Wonder if he will even mention it, or just move on...

I look forward to seeing the latest mugshot of Zimmerman in the news. It is not fair for the media to use old pictures of people. That's what Rush Slutball told me, and I believe him.

Second degree murder.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/11/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

david1 says

If he goes to prison for 25 years he is a deadman.

Why would he be a dead man? Were the motives of Zimmerman any worse than your average Hispanic or Neo-Nazi gang-banger in jail for murdering an African American?

Now that a prosecutor has filed charges, does this mean the "Stand your Ground" law has no relevance to the case? If Zimmerman stalked, confronted and murdered Martin - Stand your ground has no bearing. Its just murder.

If Zimmerman's account is true that he was on the sidewalk getting his head bashed in by Martin, he had no place to retreat (or ground to stand) and could use deadly force if he believed his life was in danger. Most States have similar laws.