patrick.net

MUSLIMS FOR O'BAMA

Yes Abe, I am sure the Muslims love Obama because he killed Bin Laden, whereas Bush "really just don’t spend that much time on him". Welcome to the idiocracy; or do you just like to listen to yourself type?

Getting paid by the RNC for the thread remaining at the top?

OK, these people built their businesses but they can stay out & off the infrastructure that they could not afford to build. Just another group of socialist.

Did anybody in this somewhat oniric thread mention the fact that the quote is incorrect? The president in the same speach, a little bit earlier mentions bridges, roads, and other infrastructures, then says "and if you got a business, you didn't build that" referred to such infrastructures.

I wanted to say it just in case you were all too busy to bother with facts.

Nobody believes they "did it all alone" if one includes infrastructure in the equation.

If 100 people in the same city are provided the same infrastructure and education by the taxpayers, via the government, a very small subset will take advantage and attempt to create a business. They take on all the risk. They suffer the consequences of bad decisions. They reap the benefits if they succeed. Business owners take offense at OB's statement because we see the infrastructure as a GIVEN, NOT INCLUDED IN THE DEFINITION OF 'BUILDING A BUSINESS'. ALL 100 PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO THE SAME INFRASTRUCTURE. Only the BUSINESS BUILDERS take advantage of it. The rest are too risk adverse, or too lazy.

I don't see all 100 people suffering the financial and personal consequences of a failed enterprise. If 'someone else made that happen', why is that 'someone else' not standing beside you taking the chapter 11 hit??

One could argue they 'are' standing beside you, as your failed business takes bailout funds from the government. That is a minuscule subset of all business owners and is irrelevant to the conversation.

So it appears the argument boils down to what defines the starting point of a new business. Business owners define it as applying for a business license. Others see it, incorrectly IMO, as everything else that happens prior to the license.

gbenson says

God, the stupidity and arrogance of some of you guys thinking you 'did it all alone' is amazing.

I can't believe no on this thread has picked up on the fact that Obama was paraphrasing what Elizabeth Warren said last year. Here's the quote:

There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there — good for you!

But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that maurauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea — God bless. Keep a big hunk of it.

But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.

I haven't heard any argument that can dispute this statement. And, I might add, Warren did a better job than Obama did in making the point (Warren in '16!).

jhall says

I haven't heard any argument that can dispute this statement. And, I might add, Warren did a better job than Obama did in making the point (Warren in '16!).

Because if you look at the actual intent and context of the Obama version of this statement then you couldn't do a lot of pathetic Obama bashing. Why these people have to manufacture petty things like this controversy mystifies me. There are so many legitimate big issues to take Obama to task for, why bother with a poorly worded sentence. Some people just have no lives at all I would have to guess.

Would entrepreneurs in America be able to "make it" in China, Viet Nam, or environs? Isn't that why people come here typically?

America's foundation makes it a good place for just about anyone to start a business. All of that comes with a price, paid for by your parents and grandparents, neighbors and fellow citizens.

Despite the fact that this is much ado about nothing, I'd say even the poorly delivered line from Obama has merit.

You didn't really do it by yourself. It's true.

jhall says

I can't believe no on this thread has picked up on the fact that Obama was paraphrasing what Elizabeth Warren said last year.

It's because they're kinda whiny. I had no idea that small business owners had egos so fragile they could be easily shattered by a quote taken out of context that doesn't mean what they think it means.

Well I have to ask a bigger important question.
Why is the President quoting Elizabeth Warren if he has no designs or aspirations to explore the eras of concerns she warns the US about.
And as a reward for her tireless work, she was exiled to run in a winless political office in Massachusetts. To get her out of the way, she was a general pain the ass for Obama and thorn in his and the Feds side.

Quite ingenious of the President to quote her, don't you think?

There is that picked up on, enough for you?

omgbacon says

It's because they're kinda whiny. I had no idea that small business owners had egos so fragile they could be easily shattered by a quote taken out of context that doesn't mean what they think it means.

And even if it meant what they thought it meant, it would be true anyway.

All of society is built on our past, and is a product of our current collective effort.

That's where the distribution of income comes in too. Why do the workers who produce the goods get so little of the benefit?

The "workers" have the same equal opportunity start their own company, become the owner, and produce the goods themselves.

Stop complaining and get to work - start your own company and pay your workers twice what they currently earn, heck why not pay them 10 Xs the normal wage. That will create some much needed FAIRNESS in the workplace!

Honest Abe says

Did the president of the United States REALLY say that?

No he didn't, not in the context the wingnut media is going all out to portray.

Because they took no risk.
They can always move on in the blink of an eye.
the small business owner has hard assets and is invested in the business. They cannot.

CL says

That's where the distribution of income comes in too. Why do the workers who produce the goods get so little of the benefit?

He didn't say "you didn't build that road, someone else made that happen" He said: "if you've got a BUSINESS you didn't build that..." He got caught with his pants down and is desperately backpedaling in order to do damage control.

He doesn't want to be seen for what he really is: anti-success, anti-business, anti-constitution, anti-free enterprise, anti-private property, IOW anti-American.

No...they never will.
They'd rather sit back, complain, and collect.....

Honest Abe says

Stop complaining and get to work - start your own company and pay your workers twice what they currently earn, heck why not pay them 10 Xs the normal wage. That will create some much needed FAIRNESS in the workplace!

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/mittromney/a/Mitt-Romney-Quotes.htm

1. "Corporations are people, my friend… of course they are. Everything corporations earn ultimately goes to the people. Where do you think it goes? Whose pockets? Whose pockets? People's pockets. Human beings, my friend." —Mitt Romney to a heckler at the Iowa State Fair who suggested that taxes should be raised on corporations as part of balancing the budget (August 2011)

2. "I like being able to fire people who provide services to me." –Mitt Romney, using an unfortunate choice of words while advocating for consumer choice in health insurance plans (January 2012)

3. "I'm not concerned about the very poor. We have a safety net there." —Mitt Romney (January 2012)

4. "He [Obama] says we need more firemen, more policemen, more teachers. Did he not get the message of Wisconsin? The American people did. It's time for us to cut back on government and help the American people." —Mitt Romney at a campaign event in Council Bluffs, Iowa, June 8, 2012

5. "I'll take a lot of credit for the fact that this industry's come back." –Mitt Romney, –Mitt Romney, on the American auto industry, despite having written a New York Times op-ed in 2008 titled "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt," in which he said if GM, Ford and Chrysler got a government bailout "you can kiss the American automotive industry goodbye"

6. "It's hard to know just how well [the 2012 London Olympics] will turn out. There are a few things that were disconcerting. The stories about the private security firm not having enough people, the supposed strike of the immigration and customs officials, that obviously is not something which is encouraging." –Mitt Romney, insulting Britain on the eve of the Olympics by suggesting the country is not ready, NBC News interview, July 25, 2012

7. "I'll tell you what, ten-thousand bucks? $10,000 bet?" –Mitt Romney, attempting to make a wager with Rick Perry during a Republican presidential debate to settle a disagreement about health care (December 2011)

8. "I should tell my story. I'm also unemployed." —Mitt Romney, speaking in 2011 to unemployed people in Florida. Romney's net worth is over $200 million.

9. "[My wife] drives a couple of Cadillacs." –Mitt Romney, campaigning for president in Michigan (February 2012)

10. "I believe in an America where millions of Americans believe in an America that's the America millions of Americans believe in. That's the America I love." –Mitt Romney (January 2012)

Bonus Quotes:

"PETA is not happy that my dog likes fresh air." —Mitt Romney in 2007, responding to criticism from People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals following revelations that he had once put the family dog in a carrier and strapped it to the roof of his car during a 12-hour road trip

"I have some friends who are NASCAR team owners." —Mitt Romney, after being asked whether he follows NASCAR racing (February 2012)

"There were a couple of times I wondered whether I was going to get a pink slip" –Mitt Romney, attempting to identify with the problems of average folk (January 2012)

"I'm not sure about these cookies. They don't look like you made them. No, no. They came from the local 7/11 bakery, or whatever." —Mitt Romney, visiting a local bakery while campaigning in Pittsburgh, PA, April 17, 2012 (The owner of the baker later told MSNBC he was offended by Romney's remarks.)

"I like those fancy raincoats you bought. Really sprung for the big bucks." —Mitt Romney to a group of NASCAR fans wearing plastic ponchos at the Daytona 500 (February 2012)

"We have a president, who I think is is a nice guy, but he spent too much time at Harvard, perhaps." —Mitt Romney, who has two Harvard degrees (April 5, 2012)

"I love this state. The trees are the right height." —Mitt Romney, campaigning in Michigan (February 2012)

"I'm running for office for Pete's sake, we can't have illegals" –Mitt Romney, recalling his reaction when he learned that there were illegal aliens working the ground on his property, employed by a firm that he subsequently fired (October 2011)

"I get speaker's fees from time to time, but not very much." —Mitt Romney, who earned $374,000 in speaking fees in one year according to according to his personal financial disclosure (January 2012)

"It's not worth moving heaven and earth, spending billions of dollars just trying to catch one person." —Mitt Romney, speaking in 2007 about killing Osama bin Laden

"Who let the dogs out? Who, who." –Mitt Romney, during an awkward photo op with a group of African Americans kids at a Martin Luther King Day parade (January 2008)

"I'm Wolf Blitzer and yes, that's my real name." —CNN's Wolf Blitzer at the beginning of a November 2011 Republican presidential debate
"I'm Mitt Romney—and yes Wolf, that's also my first name." —Mitt Romney, getting his own name wrong (his first name is "Willard," and his middle name is "Mitt")

"I'm not familiar precisely with what I said, but I'll stand by what I said, whatever it was." —Mitt Romney (May 17, 2012)

Is that enough out of context quotes? Or should we spend more time manufacturing controversy and scandal by acting like 12 year old?

Business and success haters love obama!

Why are you afraid of reliving your childhood?

omgbacon says

Is that enough out of context quotes? Or should we spend more time manufacturing controversy and scandal by acting like 12 year old?

Obama's inane comment being defended here by some clowns is funny, since he himself is backtracking it.
Of course the infastructure is important to succeed. And we all have paid for it in many forms of taxation.
What Obama was suggesting in that idiotic rant of a speech in front of a crowd of welfare sucking losers was that success should be taxed MORE.
This is so idiotic, stupid and wrong there is no way to defend it.
All people moving around pay for roads and bridges. All people and products flying around pay for it.
What Obama is saying is that those who may use transportation for their business success owe MORE to Uncle Sam because decades ago our interestate highway system was built, and the FAA was created, etc.
His entire premise is bullshit. We have already paid, and so have all businesses. He wants to invent a pretext to TAKE more from successful people to transfer their wealth, sweat, blood and effort to give to losers.
Obama is just appealing to the lowest denominator since he cannot sell his nonsense to anyone who has 1. a brain 2. money 3. a job 4. not lgbt, minority, dilettante.

Honest Abe,

The full quote is below. I understand it is a little long but he is right and no one made it on there own. Does your business use roads? Who do you think built the roads for your business? Do you have employee's at your business? Who do you think educated your employee's? Unless you built something from your land, on your land, with your own hands society helped you out in more ways than you recognize.

Here’s what Obama said:
“Look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something—there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own.”

fewy, evidently no one educated you.
You wrote:"..and no one made it on there own".
It should be ...and no one made on their own. (their=possesive)
There is no apostrophe to make employee plural, it's employees, not your "employee's".
Evidently then you are an illiterate who happens to own a computer.
How are you making it pal? Work for the government?
We are aware of the entirety of the Obama speech.

Ruki,

You misunderstood the argument that is being made. But I guess you agree that we don't need laws to protect us. People should be able to use patents and copy written work all they want after all historically we didn't need them. Why should you be able to stop me from taking your idea/product and making it myself. After all you are saying that if I'm an entrepreneur who is making a copy of an ipad, no one helped me make the copy. Sounds pretty ridicules.

Honest Abe says

The "workers" have the same equal opportunity start their own company, become the owner, and produce the goods themselves.

Do they? Where do they get their capital when they're struggling just to pay bills?

In all markets, including labor, there are buyers and sellers. Sometimes conditions favor buyers and others, sellers. In labor, conditions have favored the buyers (employers) over the laborers.

And when you have labor over a barrel, it is a lot hard for disadvantaged folks to start the business.

xrpb11a says

Because they took no risk.
They can always move on in the blink of an eye.
the small business owner has hard assets and is invested in the business. They cannot.

They likely have little to risk in the first place. They're probably in debt. They're probably shut out of lending.

Wealth begets wealth. And those who are born in privilege fight to keep that privilege.

And can the poor or middle class really move when they want? And if businesses can't move, then why do the rightwing types always say that business will flee higher taxes, especially here in California?

Its pretty clear that obama has the "collective" mentality. He doesn't seem to believe in personal accomplishment - its collectivism that made it happen, you didn't.

If failure isn't your fault, success can not by your accomplishment. Notice the lack of personal responsibility?

All the roads, all the bridges, all the public education are the same for everyone. Yet some build businesses, and some are successful - despite government roadblocks and the collective mentality of liberals and liberal politicians who say "no, you didn't build that, someone did".

Samsung helped you..

fewy says

After all you are saying that if I'm an entrepreneur who is making a copy of an ipad, no one helped me make the copy. Sounds pretty ridicules

CL - with that type of thinking, NO ONE could succeed. "If you think you can, or you think you can't - you're right". If its meant to be its up to me. Only a tiny fraction of 1% of Americans are born into privilege - and so what? My life is determined by my talents, my abilities, my work ethic, and the choices I make, not by filthy rich people I'll never meet in my life.

Why do we continually see articles like this: "Ten new millionaires under 30 years old" or "New businesses strike it rich".

Have you read The Millionaire Next Door? My guess is that NONE of those millionaires share your mentality. If you think you can't, you can't.

I started with nothing. I scrimped and saved and did without...
that's how you get the seed money.

CL says

Do they? Where do they get their capital when they're struggling just to pay bills?

xrpb11a says

Why are you afraid of reliving your childhood?

I thought I was dealing with adults, not children. if you really want to just stick your tongue out at people and make fart sounds I suppose that's your prerogative, but don't expect the grownups to keep listening.

I love how dimwits like Abe seem to think that any implication that 'you didn't get there alone' must mean that Obama is unequivocally stating that one's skill or hard work had nothing whatsoever to do with it. Are you really that delusional and paranoid?

Conservatives constantly whine about regulations and taxes, however the reward is clearly still worth the risk in starting a business in this country or you'd be in 'greener pastures'. Is it beyond your grasp to understand that without the 'little people', without those that came before you, without those who fell on the battlefields, you'd have no business, regardless of your own sweat equity or mental prowess?

You shame others with the stories of someone who scrimped and saved and with only bus fare in their pocket, yet managed to create an empire. Conspicuously absent are the voices of 1000 others that tried and died penniless.

Funny, a 12 year old would have a hard time recognizing controversy and scandal....what's your excuse?

omgbacon says

Or should we spend more time manufacturing controversy and scandal by acting like 12 year old?

CL says

omgbacon says

It's because they're kinda whiny. I had no idea that small business owners had egos so fragile they could be easily shattered by a quote taken out of context that doesn't mean what they think it means.

And even if it meant what they thought it meant, it would be true anyway.

All of society is built on our past, and is a product of our current collective effort.

That's where the distribution of income comes in too. Why do the workers who produce the goods get so little of the benefit?

Actually, the workers who produce the goods get exactly what they agreed to when they hired on. If they didn't like the wages, then don't take the job.

Meanwhile, the fellow who started the company reaps good money when his product/service if selling well and loses his shirt when his product/service doesn't sell well.

If the company does well, the worker gets paid the agreed upon sum and continues to work. If the company doesn't do well, the worker looks for another job while the owner loses a butt-load of money and has a real bleak near-term future. When you run a business you take some huge risks, if the risks pay off you do well, if they don't you lose big. And the worker? He rides the winds of the wages that he agrees to and the ability to go from company to company looking for someone who wants to pay more for his services.

Abe, fox news says you're wrong:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/07/17/obama-right-americans-cant-succeed-without-government/?intcmp=obinsite

Is this the part of the story where your head blows up?

Here's a partial quote from the article:

" A lot has been made over comments made by the president last Friday to this effect.  In many cases, President Obama was deliberately quoted out of context.  Here is what the president actually said:

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help.  There was a great teacher somewhere in your life.  Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive.  Somebody invested in roads and bridges.  If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that.  Somebody else made that happen.  The Internet didn’t get invented on its own.  Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.  The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."
 

It’s not either/or.  The president was clear:  We succeed because of our individual initiative but also because of the public investments that help springboard that success.  Don’t believe me?  Then go start a business in Pakistan or Russia.  American entrepreneurs succeed in part because they’re in America.  And in America, we don’t get ours and then yank away the ladder of opportunity for the next generation.  "

xrpb11a says

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampad

and yes, it is "just you"....

I find it interesting you link to a wikipedia page on Ampad. I find it even more interesting that there is a wikipedia page on Ampad. I notice the wikipedia page was last updated on June 7, 2012. Interesting because nothing significant occurred involving Ampad for over two years.

Also interesting the they quote a 53 percent annual compound growth rate, but in the same sentence mention $8.8 MM in 2002 to $200.5MM. Those two numbers dont add up...53% compound growth rate from $8.8MM in four years is $48.2MM. $8.8MM to $200.5MM in four years is about a 118.5% compound annual growth rate. Hmm...

So I dig a little more...and the "facts" on the wikipedia page are almost verbatim from this page:

http://americaneedsmitt.com/2012/05/american-pad-and-paper-ampad-one-of-bains-great-failures/

So yeah, the wikipedia numbers are suspect at best and outright biased at worst.

Then I notice at the top of that page it mentions $583.86MM in sales for 1996. Hmm..which is it, $200.5MM or $583.86MM? The only possible difference between sales and net sales is returns and discounts, so unless Ampad was getting returns and discounts of over 60% of its sales, these numbers dont gybe.

david1 says

Also interesting the they quote a 53 percent annual compound growth rate, but in the same sentence mention $8.8 MM in 2002 to $200.5MM. Those two numbers dont add up...53% compound growth rate from $8.8MM in four years is $48.2MM. $8.8MM to $200.5MM in four years is about a 118.5% compound annual growth rate. Hmm...

The "growth" was all borrowing and purchasing other companies. I notice bain, or wiki, doesn't talk about the growth in debt. Ampad borrowed 400 million to buy enough companies to pump up revenue to 200 million. Bain took huge fees on each aquisition. Once the revenue was pumped high enough Bain took Ampad public, again taking huge fees, then dumped their ampad stock leaving the suckers, sorry stock holders, of bains's pump and dump scheme screwed, blewed, and tattoed.

So bain put in 5 million, took out 12 million in fees and sold 50 million in stock. Hell of a return in 8 years, 60 million plus on 5 million. Not such a great deal for all the people who worked there and lost everything or the creditors who took a 200+ million dollar bath.

This is not capitalism as I learned it.

Well, that pretty much explains it.

Now, lets elect him and take that nasty bastard's nasty talent and turn it against Russia/China/Iran.

bob2356 says

So bain put in 5 million, took out 12 million in fees and sold 50 million in stock. Hell of a return in 8 years, 60 million plus on 5 million. Not such a great deal for all the people who worked there and lost everything or the creditors who took a 200+ million dollar bath.

jhall says

But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that maurauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea — God bless. Keep a big hunk of it.

So true.

Without a socialist taxpayer funded highway system, businesses wouldn't be in business. Damn Socialist Sympathizers.

If you built a business after 2008, there is one damn thing for sure...
Obama did NOT make that happen.