patrick.net

Can you be "all of the above"/ It's a tall order, but something to aspire to.

Where is classical liberalism? You know, those types that value freedom and liberty and want to tone down the oppressive state, etc?

Seems most of the above want to use government (force and power) to achieve various objectives.

Dan8267 says

Your Liberal Breed: Reality-Based Intellectualist

You are a Reality-Based Intellectualist, also known as a liberal elitist. You are a proud member of what’s known as the reality-based com¬munity, where science, reason, and non-Jesus-centric thought reign supreme.

Then the person obviously fails to recognize the reality that roughly 80% of practically any population just want to have something to "count on," be it silly superstition, or any of the various brands of religions or the new/ancient superstition/religion/faith in the omnipotent government-god. Anti-religious zealots are in effect peddling something that is even more primitive than most religions of the world: the all-powerful government-god religion that existed in the ancient Egypt and Mesopetamia before monotheism was invented to provide a check on the rulers.

Reality says

Anti-religious zealots are in effect peddling something that is even more primitive than most religions of the world: the all-powerful government-god religion that existed in the ancient Egypt and Mesopetamia before monotheism was invented to provide a check on the rulers.

There is no such thing as an anti-religious zealot. And I have yet to hear a vocal atheist who also advocated an all-powerful centralized government.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Shostakovich says

How do you classify the ones that hammer sticks of dynamite down bankers' throats, light them up an then encourage the neighborhood children to cheer on their detonation and piss on their smoldering chests?

Type A personalities

Cynical, been there done that , tired of the crap -what does that classify as?

The kind that misses the hell out of the smart ones, that made intelligent decisions that would benefit all people in need of the safety nets they used to be intelligent to provide for all American citizens.

Now they just cherry pick small factions to get them to vote for them, while they do nothing fuck all for them or anyone for that matter, but fuck shit up worse for everyone. And every liberals calls a smashing success and doles out Nobel peace prizes like they are cigars at a high brow art exhibit.

NARF!!!!

Dan8267 says

There is no such thing as an anti-religious zealot. And I have yet to hear a vocal atheist who also advocated an all-powerful centralized government.

Aren't you forgetting the millions of Communists and Fascists of the past century and half? Roughly 80% of the population simply can not live without believing in some kind of faith; when religions are banned, the faith in the Government and the Great Leader stand in as default.

Reality says

Dan8267 says

There is no such thing as an anti-religious zealot. And I have yet to hear a vocal atheist who also advocated an all-powerful centralized government.

Aren't you forgetting the millions of Communists and Fascists of the past century and half? Roughly 80% of the population simply can not live without believing in some kind of faith; when religions are banned, the faith in the Government and the Great Leader stand in as default.

I'm talking about modern times just like you were in our conversation. Vocal atheists that people bitch about today like Hitchens and Dawkins. Yes, a hundred years ago Stalin, an atheist, was also a tyrant. But our discussion was about today, not a century ago as evident when you said

Then the person obviously fails to recognize the reality that roughly 80% of practically any population just want to have something to "count on," be it silly superstition, or any of the various brands of religions or the new/ancient superstition/religion/faith in the omnipotent government-god. Anti-religious zealots are in effect peddling something that is even more primitive than most religions of the world: the all-powerful government-god religion that existed in the ancient Egypt and Mesopetamia before monotheism was invented to provide a check on the rulers.

The context of the thread of discussion you created was the present. My statement makes perfect sense in that context. Just because we're on the Internet doesn't mean you can drop context after ever single post even if that post was like hours ago.

Those are some really odd questions I can't even comprehend this. Sorry, I'm out.

Dan8267 says

I'm talking about modern times just like you were in our conversation. Vocal atheists that people bitch about today like Hitchens and Dawkins. Yes, a hundred years ago Stalin, an atheist, was also a tyrant. But our discussion was about today, not a century ago as evident when

How short is your memory anyway? The Soviet Union was in existence till about 20 years ago. Some of its ideological derivative regimes still exist today, and account for a huge chunk of the world's population. Did Hitchens become ancient history to you too the moment he died a few years ago? Dawkins probably won't be long either, as much as I respect the man on his treatise on genetic evolution itself.

Dan8267 says

The context of the thread of discussion you created was the present. My statement makes perfect sense in that context. Just because we're on the Internet doesn't mean you can drop context after ever single post even if that post was like hours ago.

What the heck are you talking about? Your statement is little more than a re-run of the trite zealous anti-religious schoolboy that agitated for chopping the heads off the priests during the French Revolution, the Russian Communist Revolution, the Chinese Communist Revolution, and the Cambodian genocide.

What do you think the current state religion of North Korea is? The blind faith in the Government and the Great Leader! after all traditional religions are banned.

Reality says

...

Don't make me pull out a half-naked Tom Selleck again. Go read the old threads on this subject matter. Just look for Selleck.

Dan8267 says

Reality says

...

Don't make me pull out a half-naked Tom Selleck again. Go read the old threads on this subject matter. Just look for Selleck.

Not the least interested in reading what you said elsewhere.

Reality says

monotheism was invented to provide a check on the rulers.

LOL! That is the complete opposite of reality. For example, Constantine adopted Christianity and imposed it on Rome so he could increase his own power. Not coincidentally, Paul had written to respect those placed in authority above you.

But, you do have a point in observing that people tend to deify human leaders, from divine emperors to the divine right of kings to the imperial presidency. They also tend to create a pantheon of saints to worship, e.g. celebrities. To call that a "need" is a stretch though: as every parent has explained to every child, you don't need candy, you want candy, and it rots the teeth out of your head.

curious2 says

LOL! That is the complete opposite of reality. For example, Constantine adopted Christianity and imposed it on Rome so he could increase his own power. Not coincidentally, Paul had written to respect those placed in authority above you.

Constantine did not invent Christianity. Roman Empire was going to hell in a hand basket before Constantine ("Crisis of the Third Century"). Constantine's legalization of Christianity did lead to much lower cost of running the Roman government, as reflected in reduced inflation rate and re-stabilization in the 4th century.

curious2 says

But, you do have a point in observing that people tend to deify human leaders, from divine emperors to the divine right of kings to the imperial presidency. They also tend to create a pantheon of saints to worship, e.g. celebrities. To call that a "need" is a stretch though: as every parent has explained to every child, you don't need candy, you want candy, and it rots the teeth out of your head.

Whether need or want, roughly 80% of the population sells their body and soul to that which is perceived the most powerful. Richard Dawkins actually considers that phenomenon a genetic/viral mental disease caused by our evolutionary need for kids to follow parents' instruction when young. Given the prevalence of this mental disease among human population, wouldn't it be a good idea to have as diverse religions putting faith in various "heavenly fathers/mothers" as possible instead of putting faith in the hirarchy of men occupying our governments?

I liked science and built speakers in my High School Electronics class. The area near the beach where I lived had parents with german cars, and some of their kids drove these to High School. I was a geek, and they let me know it.

Now I was starting to understand human nature when a high percentage of the Kids with wealth were democrats, they were cool, they were elite.

And if you went in the Navy and took engineering they wont talk to you.

Now - I cant talk to them so much. They are Democrats still, and cant figure out why their Outdoor Studies degrees dont pay so well. Why not just offer a degree in Burger flipping?

Turns out - it the dems who are geeks.............

Reality says

Richard Dawkins actually considers that a genetic/viral mental disease due to our evolutionary need for kids to follow parents' instruction when young.

Son, are you and this Darkins feller retarded?
All animal species(well mammals anyway) are taught by example by their parents.
What asshole proposes, that a parent teaching their children is a mental disease. It's the Liberal POV taught in school by adults that should be old enough to know better, than the shit they are spouting off to children, that are fucking mental.

The folks on this board, never stops topping the stupid shit I heard.

In short, we individually reap what we sow, and collectively as a society, we reap what we sow.

Good Captain,

Dawkins was not talking about kids learning from adults per se, but the juvenile proclivity persisting into adulthood. i.e. the same genetic coding that makes the juvenile willing to believe and follow whatever the adult says persisting into adulthood and makes the adult susceptible to worshiping authority figures.

Reality says

Not the least interested in reading what you said elsewhere.

And I'm not the least bit interested in repeating myself to someone to lazy to do so.

Dan8267 says

Reality says

Not the least interested in reading what you said elsewhere.

And I'm not the least bit interested in repeating myself to someone to lazy to do so.

Then why bother posting anything at all? Do you actually believe the overwhelming majority of the ideas around here haven't been debated previously ad nauseum over the past few years, few hundred years, or few thousand years? Real original memes are extremely rare, just like truly original genetic mutations.

Original ideas happen all the time, and good ideas are worth repeating. However, feel free to put me on ignore if you don't like what I write. I have yet to see you add to a conversation.

Dan8267 says

There is no such thing as an anti-religious zealot. And I have yet to hear a vocal atheist who also advocated an all-powerful centralized government.

Seems all the great dictators ran police states which were highly agressive against religious institutions. Its simple. If there is something abstract higher than the state that is good and moral then the state has a challenger. So it must be eliminated. Maybe atheists dont plan on helping a police state form, but moral relativism, hedonism and police states have been around for a long time. I was pondering on the inflation of Diocletian and the conversion of the Empire to Christ by Constantine a generation later. And these romans knew how to party, they make the sick stuff of today look like peanuts. Child sacrifice, orgies, etc. But when the soul rots and the country rots from within, eventually people seek out goodness and morality.

So while atheists arent intrinsically evil or seek out disorder and amorality, they are just pushing Rome along until it turns to dust.

I also find that the fervor with which some atheists pursue their belief in no-god with great fanatical zealotry. And this is now "PC" to be that way. And its not going to turn out well - like it or not, but ecclesiastical factions in a society are a part of a greater balance.

Lol. You idiots lost any claim to the intelligence label. That was swiped from liberals by the libertarians a couple decades ago.

"I also find that the fervor with which some atheists pursue their belief in no-god with great fanatical zealotry. And this is now "PC" to be that way. And its not going to turn out well - like it or not, but ecclesiastical factions in a society are a part of a greater balance."

Right?

It's almost like each and every one of these individuals have unresolved emotional trauma related to their experience with religious upbringing or unresolved chemical imbalances that cause them to want to thrust atheism down the throats of others.

I've spent roughly half my life as an atheist and half as a born again Christian and not once have I had the desire to force someone else to accept my beliefs nor have I felt compelled to insult and/or belittle those who believe differently than I do.

Mick Russom says

Maybe atheists dont plan on helping a police state form, but moral relativism, hedonism and police states have been around for a long time.

Feel free to resurrect this old thread: http://patrick.net/?p=1219145

Finally got to read your old post. Thanks for providing the link to the article that you are so proud of.

Wow! It's amazing how narrow the knowledge base is among today's young kids. The Spanish Inquisition investigated a total of about 125k people, of which 1.8% were executed. That's about 2000 people total over about 170 years. 170 years! The French atheist revolutionaries killed more priests than that in one year! The Stalinist, Maoist and Pol Pottist executed more religious people in a day than that in pursuit of "scientific atheism."

The Holocaust was a racial event, not a religious one. The victims were targeted according to biology (1/8 biological Jew); many were converted Jewish Christians, even atheist Jews and non-practicing Jews. If anything, the theory was a vulgarized version of Darwinism made palatable to the first few generations of modern public-school educated crowd, Social Darwinism. Prussia was the first to implement mass brain washing in public schools. The Catholics were also persecuted by the Nazi regime, which was atheistic to occultist.

The extermination of native Americans and slavery again could hardly be attributed to religion. Pure greed drove both. Many religious groups actually tried to protect some of the victims by converting them to Christianity.

Reality says

The Spanish Inquisition investigated a total of about 125k people, of which 1.8% were executed.

Wow, trying to rationalize the Spanish Inquisition. That's a whole new type of fucked up I've never heard of before. How many countless thousands were tortured both officially investigated and not. How many millions were kept living in fear?

And the Inquisition was just one small part of the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity.

Reality says

he Catholics were also persecuted by the Nazi regime, which was atheistic to occultist.

Nazi atheistic? Why don't you just make out George Washington to be a smurf while you're rewriting history?

Dan8267 says

Reality says

The Spanish Inquisition investigated a total of about 125k people, of which 1.8% were executed.

Wow, trying to rationalize the Spanish Inquisition. That's a whole new type of fucked up I've never heard of before. How many countless thousands were tortured both officially investigated and not. How many millions were kept living in fear?

And the Inquisition was just one small part of the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity.

I just cited the stats, with no moral weighing whatsoever. You were the one who excused Stalinists and Maoists that killed thousands times more people in pursuit of their "scientific atheistic" states. On the order of 100,000,000 vs.
2,000

Dan8267 says

Reality says

he Catholics were also persecuted by the Nazi regime, which was atheistic to occultist.

Nazi atheistic? Why don't you just make out George Washington to be a smurf while you're rewriting history?

Nazis were indeed atheistic. In case you didn't know, "Nazi" stands for National Socialism. It was atheistic nationalism and atheistic socialism. Some of the particular leaders were (allegedly) into Occultism.

Yes, so very atheistic. Look at all those atheist symbols and people dressed in atheist garb.

Apparently you aren't able to tell the difference between state-controlled fake religious institutions vs. genuine religious institutions. Both Soviet Union and Red China also had fake "patriotic churches" entirely controlled by the atheistic governments.

If you believe Nazis were Christians, how do you explain their mass killing of Jews who had converted to Christianity? It was Social Darwinism.

All religious institutions are fake. And it's religion's control of the state that you really need to be worried about.

The historical record stands on it own.

Reality says

If you believe Nazis were Christians, how do you explain their mass killing of Jews who had converted to Christianity? It was Social Darwinism.

bigotry

Dan8267 says

All religious institutions are fake. And it's religion's control of the state that you really need to be worried about.

The historical record stands on it own.

What religion was in control of the worst governments in human history: Pol Pot's Cambodia, Mao's China, Stalin's USSR, and the Nazis? Scientific Atheism and Social Darwinism!

Dan8267 says

Reality says

If you believe Nazis were Christians, how do you explain their mass killing of Jews who had converted to Christianity? It was Social Darwinism.

bigotry

You are exhibiting plenty of that towards religious people.