patrick.net

You are wasting your time trying to promote the police in this place.
It's a haven for the convicted....

No. Every prison has security guards on the up and up....

Call it Crazy says

SoftShell says

You are wasting your time trying to promote the police in this place.

It's a haven for the convicted....

Speaking from personal experience?

prodigy says

For every bad cop incident, there are 10,000 incidents like the one mentioned above

Evidence?

Do cops advertise when they abuse or break the law?

Before cameras, the vast majority of the cases you hear about were airily dismissed.

How many Mike Browns don't get reported? How many abusive cops are quietly released - like that crazy LAPD officer who stalked his own neighbors?

Power corrupts.

700% more incarcerations. Same Crime Rate. /brokensystem

thunderlips11 says

Evidence?

There are something like 700k cops in the US with the vast majority making numerous contacts with the public every day. I don't know the numbers but say the average cop deals with 10 incidents a day and there are 600k street cops. That's 6 million interactions a day with the public and .over 2 billion a year. If there were a substantial percentage (or as dan contends all of them) of abusive cops the number of complaints and youtube videos would be astronomical. Simple logic (something frequently in severe shortage on patnet) dictates that there can't be that high a percentage of cops that are bad news. There are most certainly some, no one denies that. There will always be some. Body cameras for every cop is the way to go.

thunderlips11 says

700% more incarcerations. Same Crime Rate. /brokensystem

What does this have to do with cops? It only shows what a total failure the war on drugs is. Cops don't make laws. If the drug laws turn 700% more people into criminals then the cops are obligated to go out and arrest them.

Problem with the police forces these days is:

#1 The do the blue line stuff to support each other. They will not police themselves for corruption well and IA is disliked. Nobody is really watching the watchers.
#2 They take their pay and pension from a corrupted government. It would be the job of the police to help police the corruption, but since the corrupted government paid them, they are more or less paid off. The new mafia is corrupt government
#3 They have tolerated the suspension of posse comitatus and willingly have become para-military. This is effectively a standing army.
#4 They have not done much to put headwind against illegal laws, challenge constitutionality of these laws or refuse to enforce illegal laws. They are effectively paid off by the corrupt government and know the pay and pension come from the government which has ceased to be representative and most (95%) of all politicians are protecting the system and keeping things as is.
#5 Police use their force to extract even more wealth from society by doing silly stuff like goofy speeding tickets, roll throughs, etc. This kills a lot of good will and is done for meeting quotas and bringing more money into the system.

See Bob2336's post. It really is simple logic.

thunderlips11 says

Evidence?

Yeah, they protect each other like combat soldiers in iraq. It's a war out there and they are in the trenches. What else would you expect?
They are really not supposed to 'police each other'. That is the job of IA.
And if IA is 'disliked'....so what?
Who is watching the 'watchers'? The police commissioner and the mayor of the city.
If the watchers (IA) aren't watching they should be fired, and if they are not, then the commissioner and mayor should be held accountable.
If this situation exists in your city and you give a crap, you should be actively involved in the political process to remove whoever is at fault.

Mick Russom says

Problem with the police forces these days is:

#1 The do the blue line stuff to support each other. They will not police themselves for corruption well and IA is disliked. Nobody is really watching the watchers.

Taxes fund the various police forces.
If your government is corrupt, then vote them out or gather evidence and put on public display.

Mick Russom says

#2 They take their pay and pension from a corrupted government. It would be the job of the police to help police the corruption, but since the corrupted government paid them, they are more or less paid off. The new mafia is corrupt government

Mick Russom says

Problem with the police forces these days is:

This is just silly. The thin blue line thing has always existed. Point 2-5 are political decisions. Cops do what they are trained and told to do. How the fuck are police supposed to challenge laws? They'd simply be fired and with today's economy there is a large pool willing to take their place.

Tell me all about how you challenge things where you work? Yea right I thought so

you are forgetting the coast guard is not covered by posse comitatus and can act on the governer's request to help police a state.
All police forces are effectively 'standing armies', so I don't know what your point is.

Mick Russom says

#3 They have tolerated the suspension of posse comitatus and willingly have become para-military. This is effectively a standing army.

They are not hired to do these things. They are hired to enforce existing laws.

Mick Russom says

#4 They have not done much to put headwind against illegal laws, challenge constitutionality of these laws or refuse to enforce illegal laws.

prodigy says

If this situation exists in your city and you give a crap, you should be actively involved in the political process to remove whoever is at fault.

OMG, you mean someone should go out and help solve the problem rather than bitching about it on patnet? Say it ain't so joe. That would involve getting off their lazy ass and turning off the computer. The horror.

Yes, they do.
However I would argue that is the fault of the police chief and lieutenants that set day to day policy, not the foot cops.
I would also argue that 'quotas' for things like speeding tickets should be illegal. If people are not speeding, how can one meet a quota? This seems like it was put in place to extract the cops out of dunkin donuts and get them back on the beat. There are other ways to skin this cat. Body cameras can fix this as well as provide visual evidence for all public interactions.

Mick Russom says

#5 Police use their force to extract even more wealth from society by doing silly stuff like goofy speeding tickets, roll throughs, etc. This kills a lot of good will and is done for meeting quotas and bringing more money into the system.

Smartphones and tablets cut the chain of the desk computer and allow one to multitask anywhere and everywhere, unless you are on ATT, then you are screwed.

bob2356 says

OMG, you mean someone should go out and help solve the problem rather than bitching about it on patnet? Say it ain't so joe. That would involve getting off their lazy ass and turning off the computer. The horror.

prodigy says

unless you are on ATT, then you are screwed.

I had ATT once. I zipped my dick in the zipper once Equal amounts of pain.Never did either again.

prodigy says

Smartphones and tablets cut the chain of the desk computer and allow one to multitask anywhere and everywhere

That just means you are free to sit on your lazy ass in more places and bitch on patnet.

Call it Crazy says

Dan just likes to sensationalize the few bad apples!!

Dan needs someone to explain the concept of proportion. Cops used to deal out a lot more street justice than they do now. I worked in a very rough and tumble jersey shore resort in the late 60's and early 70's I saw plenty of it first hand. Sometimes my employees and I would do some beating (of some drunk guido asshole who had no idea how many of us there were when he started the fight) then the cops would show up and sometimes (depending on who it was) take over pounding them. No doubt at all it was police brutality and which cops (it was only a couple did this kind of thing) were doing it. But the general public at the time never knew about it. With the internet and youtube people are learning about it more now.

I'm not condoning police brutality then or now. It's wrong,. Militarization of police forces is wrong, it's rapidly and unneccesarily escalating the level of violence in police work.

bob2356 says

Tell me all about how you challenge things where you work? Yea right I thought so

You were going to tell us how you and your coworkers overturn management decisions you disagree with weren't you? Still waiting.

There are good cops, and bad cops. In this, the age of the interwebs and immediate social media, it's amazing anything gets done. The problem is that officers are often viewed as the enemy - although in many cases they are. the good stuff that they do isn't as newsworthy

However, ya gotta hand it to the NYPD, who attempted to use social media to roll out their "take a picture with a cop" campaign. Ya get what ya ask for...

http://nypost.com/2014/04/22/nypds-twitter-outreach-completely-backfired/

Just an FYI, estimating that 80-90% of officers actively patrol would be highly incorrect. Aside of front desks and management, you also have investigative cop and detective officers as well as a plethora of administrative functions.

And then there's entire agencies that don't patrol...parole and probation officers, county and state police that more or less are security guards, etc.

I'd put it more around 50% are actively patrol officers.

That said, I still agree 100% with everything else Bob said.

bob2356 says

If there were a substantial percentage (or as dan contends all of them) of abusive cops the number of complaints and youtube videos would be astronomical.

The Thug Union keeps complaints as secretive as possible, defangs any watchdogs, and of course the Prosecutor is NOT interested in pursuing cops unless the media makes a stink and even then he will bend over backwards to keep the flow coming into his office, so he can overcharge and get desperate guilty pleas, keep the prisons full and say he was tough on crime.

I hope Anonymous or Wikileaks hacks into a Police Forum and spreads the news about what cops really think about the public and their job.

bob2356 says

What does this have to do with cops? It only shows what a total failure the war on drugs is. Cops don't make laws. If the drug laws turn 700% more people into criminals then the cops are obligated to go out and arrest them.

Not just drugs, although that's a big part:
http://www.npr.org/2013/03/21/174941454/at-stop-and-frisk-trial-cops-describe-quota-driven-nypd

This is about quotas. At the end of the day, it's about quotas," he said. "That's why there is such an epidemic in these communities of people getting stopped and frisked — because the police are told to get numbers, and they are not interested in the numbers of radio runs or how they help. They are interested in arrests, summons and 250s."

An opponent of the New York Police Department's controversial stop-and-frisk policy marches last year in New York City. The NYPD says the stops assist crime prevention, while opponents say they involve racial profiling and civil rights abuses.

Adhyl Polanco, an eight-year police veteran, testified that his supervisors in a Bronx precinct in 2009 insisted on 20 summons, five street stops and one arrest per month. If you didn't make that number, he said, you could be denied days off and overtime, and given a poor evaluation. Polanco said officers who didn't make their quotas were sometimes forced to "drive their supervisors," who would make them give out summons and make street stops, sometimes of people they had not even observed.

Polanco and a second witness, Pedro Serrano, a nine-year police veteran from a different Bronx precinct, taped discussions with supervisors during the daily roll call.

In one recording, a supervisor says "the goal is at least one arrest per month and 20 summons" and that the union backed up the policy. In a later recording, a supervisor says the policy is non-negotiable and if an officer don't do what's required, he could become "pizza delivery man."

"Things are not going to get any better. It is going to get a lot worse," the supervisor says, because the city will want officers to meet even higher arrest and summons targets.

Officer Polanco said his supervisors did not think breaking up fights, ending domestic disputes and other police duties were as important as the numbers. In cross examination, the city's lawyers tried to show that Polanco was not punished in any way even though his monthly reports from January through August of 2009 showed he had never fulfilled this quota. He was later suspended with pay over a different incident; the case is still being reviewed.

Note the willing participation of the Thug Union - that's cops, not just the government.

BTW, I agree basically it's the laws and the politicians - but the thug unions aren't exactly resisting it, either.

Thanks.

thunderlips11 says

BTW, I agree

prodigy says

Certain patnetters repeatedly point out the deficiencies of the police. For every bad cop incident, there are 10,000 incidents like the one mentioned above. With these kind of odds, Occam's Razor dictates that the 'Police Pouters of Patnet' are most assuredly frequent lawbreakers that have had personal run-in's with security in which they have come out on the losing end triggering a deep cynicism and hatred of enforcement of any kind.

The damn police are useless. They don't arrest those that vote for Republicans or Democrats. These are the true criminals. How many of the cops are co-conspirators?
They stand back & let the voters destroy Murika.