patrick.net

The Chinese outscore us because they don't have blacks dragging down the averages.

Do Chinese kids order pizza during their "chalk talks?

"Beginning in the late 1960s and early ‘70s, teachers began to experiment with more innovative and experimental styles of teaching"

This pretty much says it all--the heydey of the cultural revolution that was changing everything. Like it says, in the late 60's the word "alternative" (I prefer counterfeit) began appearing before long-standing institutions and traditions--"alternative" school, "alternative" church, "alternative" lifestyle, "alternative" marriage, to imply that the traditional version was all wrong so why not try the counterfeit one. It didn't seem to occur to anyone that those in their late 20's and up, such as I, had been educated in traditional schools or by the "direct" method for decades and seemed to be perfectly successful in their fields. It was also the method employed by my mother and her generation of teachers from 1923 to 1970. A new high school was built here in 1970 to replace the 50 year old facility which in addition to being long in the tooth, could not adequately meet the new government requirements of easy access to all. It was scheduled to open in the 1971 year and I visisted it during the summer to see what it was like--when I went in I thought I was in the library because it was just a big open room and I asked someone where the school rooms were. I was told there were no walls, just lines of demarcation between classrooms and that there were no formal rules as to having to remain seated in the same spot for a 50 minute period. This idea was actually sold to so-called educated people. They struggled with the thing for two years, trying out movable partitions between the areas, but there was so much noise and overlapping interference it was stopped in 1974--one of the high schools built in the early 60's took its place from then on, it was given to a local community college and now serves as its art center.

Since we don't make stuff, we don't need to know stuff?

Teaching should be toward the end of application, this is where it went askew. The cause of this is a centralized Jimmy Carter methodology.

But most of all teachers unions are the real problem that allows all of the above.

IOW there is no price discovery for the public schools.

They probably don't have the incompetent unions dragging the education system down, while shielding themselves with our children.

I teach and am pretty damn successful at it. I can back it up with performance numbers. That being said, most of the "innovative" ways of teaching are complete bs and never backed by any measurable long term performance. I've run into teachers that try their experimental methods on simple material with the smartest kids. Of course their results are phenomenal. They just tested a kid in the top 1% on 2x2=4.

There is no preferred method of teaching. It's an art, not a science. And great teachers come in all forms with all kinds of methods. Long story short, you want us to perform up to speed, we need to demand more of our kids, their teachers and cut the friggin bs. And by demand more, I don't mean, make a set of standards (common core) written by a bunch of morons who never set foot into the classroom.

theoakman says

And by demand more, I don't mean, make a set of standards (common core) written by a bunch of morons who never set foot into the classroom.

Your method of teaching hyperbole is powerful.

The average American has an IQ of 95. The average Chinese has an IQ of 115. No education reform is going to cover a 20 point gap, not at this range of the scale. Any discussion that fails to consider this obvious fact is flawed from the start.

Quigley says

The average American has an IQ of 95. The average Chinese has an IQ of 115.

Citation please

It's agreed, then: What America needs is a Chinese population with Vladimir Putin as dictator.

indigenous says

Quigley says

The average American has an IQ of 95. The average Chinese has an IQ of 115.

Citation please

I tried to find one, and instead found 98 vs 100. (That estimate is based on a book that has been widely criticized, so I am not endorsing it, but I haven't found any wider gap elsewhere.) There is a big difference between the people who stay in China and the people who emigrate from China to the USA; the latter include a disproportionate % of educated professionals.

P N Dr Lo R says

"alternative" lifestyle, "alternative" marriage, to imply that the traditional version was all wrong so why not try the counterfeit one.

It always amazes me that certain people can turn any discussion, even education in China, into an opportunity to obsess over same-sex couples getting married. It seems, somehow, never far from certain tiny minds. P N Dr Lo R, just because your Brokeback marriage is "counterfeit", doesn't mean other people's marriages are.

curious2 says

I tried to find one, and instead found 98 vs 100

thanks

indigenous says

curious2 says

I tried to find one, and instead found 98 vs 100

thanks

Chinese have an inherent advantage in IQ tests due to their language. That has nothing to do with real world application of intelligence though.

From http://endphysics.com/chinese_characters_iq.html:

Learning to read 2,500 pictorial symbols, as Chinese students do in grade school, yields a 5-point advantage on IQ tests, compared with the
scores of Westerners whose languages are based on alphabets, according to a new analysis of mental capabilities of Greek and Chinese children.
The international team of analysts, led by psychologist Andreas Demetriou of the University of Cyprus in Nicosia, attributes the scoring disparity to
a superiority in visual and spatial tasks that comes with learning to read Chinese.

mmmarvel says

why the Chinese out score us on tests.

The main reason is simple. Being nerd is considered uncool and sexually unattractive these days. Successful hard-working people are mocked like this:

http://www.damemagazine.com/2014/05/23/amazon-killing-my-sex-life

gsr says

The main reason is simple. Being nerd is considered uncool and sexually unattractive these days. Successful hard-working people are mocked like this:

I would assert it has to do with a change in the culture, i.e. one where you are rewarded for non production.

#1 The doing well in school thing seems to be embedded in Asian culture. The high school in SGV I went to in the late 80's was 1/3 asian, 2/3 latino. In the honors and AP classes it was more like 75% asian, 20% latino, 5% caucasian. If you go to greatschools.org and look at test breakdown by race, the highest performing race is always asian or filipino, the second is usually caucasian(with some notable exceptions in run down areas or areas with lots of Armenian immigrants where they ESL students), latinos may follow very closely behind or quite far behind, and blacks are almost always way low on the scale(with an exception being one high school in Whittier where 18 black students outperform everyone).

Bottom line is, its who works harder. IQ only goes so far. The guy who works harder WILL do better in the end. That is regardless of race. Asian kids in So Cal do better in school because they work harder(and I don't wanna hear about how they meltdown and crap. I grew up with them. Theres a reason I took a govt job, theres a reason I went to a middling business program at a state college. Thats not whats up for debate here).

#2. Common core is fucking attrocious. Look, I tested at 141 IQ in middle school(and that was a slightly high aberation). I was pretty good at math, though not phenomenal. I still use statistics and quantitative measurements in my professional life and in my personal life(I was a semi pro poker player at the $20-40 LHE games in LA for several years). I have read through a substantial amount of my step daughters Geometry homework and I still don't understand it. On back to school night the teacher was almost apologetic. I don't understand why they are teaching kids in this manner....its terrible and will not help them in basic business math, statistics, and measurements in college. Perhaps its a method that will instruct them properly to be prepared for technical careers BUT I HIGHLY FUCKING DOUBT IT.

gsr says

mmmarvel says

why the Chinese out score us on tests.

The main reason is simple. Being nerd is considered uncool and sexually unattractive these days. Successful hard-working people are mocked like this:

http://www.damemagazine.com/2014/05/23/amazon-killing-my-sex-life

No, I spent a half hour or more listening to him talk about his job. Since I am not in the tech industry, I don’t understand any of it. It was all job speak—the type of language ladder-climbers use; it was the kind of talk that shuts vaginas down cold.

I hadn’t been out of the house all day, I work from home and I see no people except in a computer monitor, so human company, any kind really, was necessary. The restaurant was about to close and we had to go elsewhere or part ways. Even though I was bored, I wasn’t ready to go home, and I wanted to get a second drink. He offered wine back at his house and I said no. He was good-looking enough, but I wasn’t going to be able to get it up for a boring tech dude.

So how is that so different from enduring a dinner with someone who can't talk about anything other than superficial nonsense about whatever a Kardashain is up to?

Well OK, most guys WILL put up with an evening of blather if there is a likelihood of being invited in. Women are far less tolerant there.

In my personal experience, women don't want to hear about how work gets done and money gets made. They just want a guarantee of spending it. Educated intelligent sociable women are not going to listen to you blather on about your job. They honestly don't care.
Let the woman talk about herself and try to appear interested. Keep the drinks coming and hope for an opportunity to invite her up for a night cap .

New Renter says

So how is that so different from enduring a dinner with someone who can't talk about anything other than superficial nonsense about whatever a Kardashain is up to?

And the same group of bloggers will whine about of lack of women in tech industry.

gsr says

The main reason is simple. Being nerd is considered uncool and sexually unattractive these days. Successful hard-working people are mocked like this:

It's really only black people doing this. Black people ruin everything.

zzyzzx says

gsr says

The main reason is simple. Being nerd is considered uncool and sexually unattractive these days. Successful hard-working people are mocked like this:

It's really only black people doing this. Black people ruin everything.

How so?

gsr says

zzyzzx says

gsr says

The main reason is simple. Being nerd is considered uncool and sexually unattractive these days. Successful hard-working people are mocked like this:

It's really only black people doing this. Black people ruin everything.

How so?

By existing apparently.

Quigley says

In my personal experience, women don't want to hear about how work gets done and money gets made. They just want a guarantee of spending it. Educated intelligent sociable women are not going to listen to you blather on about your job. They honestly don't care.

That's true for anyone. Would you care to hear a fashion mougel drone on about fabrics, hemlines, or nuances of color? How about a lawyer talk about copyright law? Were it not for the possibility of some nookie would you sit through several hours of your highly educated, intelligent date talk about her job that you don't really understand nor care to?

Probably not.