patrick.net

If you buy that afterlife stuff is true, then you also must buy suicide is a mortal sin.
Whether she knew that part is irrelevant to my argument, which is your post below does not hold water.

You state that we should "out-right encourage, other children to make this same decision".

Yet we, unlike her, given the above assumptions, know that she is committing a mortal sin and will burn. So given that why would we 'out-right encourage' others to make the same mistake?

The other stuff about the god being worse than shit is irrelevant to my post.

SoftShell

says

Dan8267 says

For example, recently as 12-year-old girl killed herself so that she

could be with her recently deceased father in heaven. If the Christian afterlife is

real, then her decision makes sense and there is no tragedy. Her decision was wise

and we should respect, if not out-right encourage, other children to make this same

decision.

Dan8267

says

In any case, your proposition is irrelevant. The 12-year-old girl did not

believe she was going to hell; she believed she would go to heaven and see her dad.

And she got this idea from her Christian religion. Therefore, Christianity has done

her a terrible, terrible service.

you can stop right there. I don't need the push or shove...

Dan8267 says

But hey, there are plenty of other situations that demonstrate that you, personally, don't accept the Christian afterlife myth when push comes to shove.

SoftShell says

If you buy that afterlife stuff is true, then you also must buy suicide is a mortal sin.

Whether she knew that part is irrelevant to my argument

Actually, according to Christian mythology, one does have to know that something is a sin in order for it to be a sin. Criminal intent might not be important to our legal system, but it is important to the Christian religions. So, if the girl honestly thought that suicide wasn't a sin, then it wasn't according to Christian lore.

Never argue the lore of your religion with an atheist. He's an atheist because he's studied your religion in depth.

SoftShell says

The other stuff about the god being worse than shit is irrelevant to my post.

It's quite relevant to the discussion of Christianity and how abysmal it is both practically and morally. And it fits in well with the original post's video.

Peter P says

Religion is not evil. Taking religion too seriously, or a general lack of humor, is.

Islam is evil.

so what is it called when an atheist argues the lore of a religion that he is projecting onto you, that you have no part of?

Oh wait, I know....Liberal Logic!

Dan8267 says

Never argue the lore of your religion with an atheist.

Speaking of evil, I have a sudden craving for deviled eggs.

Dan8267 says

Religion is a significant and common enough principle cause of evil, suffering, and death that its opposition in particular is merited. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat its mistakes. Religion is one of the primary mistakes repeated throughout history.

Glad you took your medication. You finally said something that makes sense.

Dan8267 says

It's worth learning to avoid that mistake, especially in an age where mankind could destroy itself from nuclear annihilation or global ecological collapse.

Look who's talking? The mistake some of of us have learnt is terrorists like the Iranian regime will use every weapon at their disposal. They must not be allowed to have nukes. But the moment we start taking them out, Dan will be the first to yell "foul" "It's murder." " We have no right to kill them without a trial." "Who made us policeman of the world" "They are innocent"
Why don't you practice your own crap for a change.

she was 12 years old, which is 6/7 grade.
children are taught suicide is a sin in 3-4-5 grades.
http://stjohnparish.org/re_bctsANDcatbowlq.php

The evidence shows she knew but chose to ignore that part, unless you have evidence she did not know....

Dan8267 says

Actually, according to Christian mythology, one does have to know that something is a sin in order for it to be a sin.

Peter P says

Dan8267 says

Sounds more like a cop out. I really believe that the afterlife is bullshit, but I don't want to come right out and say that.

Well, I have fundamental respect for all religions. ;-)

I only respect religions that practice peace. So should you.

SoftShell says

she was 12 years old, which is 6/7 grade.

children are taught suicide is a sin in 3-4-5 grades.

http://stjohnparish.org/re_bctsANDcatbowlq.php

The evidence shows she knew but chose to ignore that part, unless you have evidence she did not know....

No matter what.....her religious beliefs were the prime cause of her wanting to join her father.

Strategist says

Peter P says

Dan8267 says

Sounds more like a cop out. I really believe that the afterlife is bullshit, but I don't want to come right out and say that.

Well, I have fundamental respect for all religions. ;-)

I only respect religions that practice peace. So should you.

Sometimes I just try to be politic...

Of course, I respect some religions a lot more than others. I find Reform Judaism most interesting.

Peter P says

I only respect religions that practice peace. So should you.

Sometimes I just try to be politic...

Of course, I respect some religions a lot more than others. I find Reform Judaism most interesting.

Oh God, just what we need. Another religion.

Not my argument.

Strategist says

No matter what.....her religious beliefs were the prime cause of her wanting to join her father.

I'm a pastafarian.

If I am a good person I will go to heaven.
There is beer and strippers in heaven.

And if I misbehave I'll go to hell.
The beer in hell is stale and the strippers have syphilis.

My holiday is called "holiday", so I'm never offended when people say "happy holidays".

My god is the FSM.
She is real because you can't prove she doesn't exist.

R'amen

SoftShell says

so what is it called when an atheist argues the lore of a religion that he is projecting onto you, that you have no part of?

If you are going to reference lore, you had better get it right.

Strategist says

You finally said something that makes sense.

I always make sense. You just aren't intelligent enough to realize it.

Strategist says

The mistake some of of us have learnt is terrorists like the Iranian regime will use every weapon at their disposal.

We all know that. However, some people haven't learned that the so-called "good guys" on your team are often the greatest threats. Hitler was elected by the people.

Strategist says

They must not be allowed to have nukes. But the moment we start taking them out, Dan will be the first to yell "foul" "It's murder." " We have no right to kill them without a trial." "Who made us policeman of the world" "They are innocent"

When have I ever stated that we should allow Iran to have nukes? When have I ever said "Who made us policeman of the world"?

And how the fuck does killing allege terrorists rather than bringing them to a fair trial allow for Iran or any other state to obtain nuclear weapons? I think it's you who needs to start taking medication.

SoftShell says

The evidence shows she knew but chose to ignore that part, unless you have evidence she did not know

Honey, you have no evidence that she chose to ignore part of a myth. The only evidence in that case is the letter she left explaining her actions. It is reasonable to consider the letter to be an accurate account of what she was thinking. And the letter clearly shows she believed she was going to go to heaven if she killed herself. Whether or not that belief adheres to the particular fiction of Christian lore is irrelevant. It still demonstrates that religion is bad because it causes people to make bad, irrational decisions based on false premises.

Strategist says

I only respect religions that practice peace. So should you.

Well, that rules out Christianity in all its forms. What are we left with? I think the only religion that was truly peaceful during its entire history was that episode of Star Trek where a pre-warp society started worshiping Captain Picard, who ironically would be a better god than any that has every been written about in human history.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

You finally said something that makes sense.

I always make sense. You just aren't intelligent enough to realize it.

Oh God, you are making no sense at all. Making sense once is not the same as making sense always. You are using your cop logic - If one cop is bad, all cops are bad.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

They must not be allowed to have nukes. But the moment we start taking them out, Dan will be the first to yell "foul" "It's murder." " We have no right to kill them without a trial." "Who made us policeman of the world" "They are innocent"

When have I ever stated that we should allow Iran to have nukes? When have I ever said "Who made us policeman of the world"?

And how the fuck does killing allege terrorists rather than bringing them to a fair trial allow for Iran or any other state to obtain nuclear weapons? I think it's you who needs to start taking medication.

There you go again. The only way to not allow Iran to have nukes is to take them out. How the hell are we gonna take them out without some people, both guilty and innocent dying in the process?

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

I only respect religions that practice peace. So should you.

Well, that rules out Christianity in all its forms. What are we left with? I think the only religion that was truly peaceful during its entire history was that episode of Star Trek where a pre-warp society started worshiping Captain Picard, who ironically would be a better god than any that has every been written about in human history.

You missed something. Sam Harris mentions "Jainism" a religion of India as truly peaceful.

http://tarunkranti.50webs.com/harris.html

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

You finally said something that makes sense.

I always make sense. You just aren't intelligent enough to realize it.

A high school teacher once told me "You are lazy, useless and will never amount to anything"
The same teacher told my mom "I was one of the smartest students she ever had"
What did your teacher tell you Dan?

Strategist says

If one cop is bad, all cops are bad.

I never said anything even remotely resembling that. The fact that you accuse me of saying such a thing shows that you have the reading comprehension of a drunken 3-year-old.

Strategist says

The only way to not allow Iran to have nukes is to take them out.

Are you seriously saying that the only way to prevent the state of Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons is to nuke the entire country killing all of them? Unfortunately, that's not even the stupidest thing I've read on PatNet, or this thread, today. And that's sad.

Strategist says

Sam Harris mentions "Jainism" a religion of India as truly peaceful.

OK, one fucking religion out of ten thousand manages to avoid being completely evil. That's about the batting average of finding good men in the Gestapo.

Strategist says

What did your teacher tell you Dan?

Who cares? Unlike you, I don't need daily affirmations of my self-worth.

Strategist says

Sam Harris mentions "Jainism" a religion of India as truly peaceful.

That's because it's so plain.

P N Dr Lo R says

Strategist says

Sam Harris mentions "Jainism" a religion of India as truly peaceful.

That's because it's so plain.

Being peaceful does not require any fancy rituals. All religions should be "plain"

Buttercup, I am not referencing 'lore'.
I am referencing your reference to 'lore'.
Not the same.

Dan8267 says

SoftShell says

so what is it called when an atheist argues the lore of a religion that he is projecting onto you, that you have no part of?

If you are going to reference lore, you had better get it right.

SoftShell says

so what is it called when an atheist argues the lore of a religion that he is projecting onto you, that you have no part of?

Oh wait, I know....Liberal Logic!

Dan8267 says

Never argue the lore of your religion with an atheist.

Dan8267 says

SoftShell says

The evidence shows she knew but chose to ignore that part, unless you have evidence she did not know

Honey,

SoftShell says

Buttercup,

I'm getting jealous here. :(

Really? Christianity is "Particularly" more vile, evil dangerous......than Islam or the other world's religions?

The irony apparently fails to register in Dan's small mind that Christian institutions like Notre Dame will allow someone like Sam Harris to come to their campus and openly trash their religion without it's adherents going ape-shit and trying to kill unbelievers.

But Dan has to put the qualifier (particularly Christianity) because he is an unthinking PC Prog or a coward.

Anyway, I'll take the Pepsi challenge and compare the atrocities (and charitable work) of Christians in the last 100+ years to the other man-made religions like Communism any day of the week. Christians (even Muslims) are pikers compared to the killing machine of Communism of the 20th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism

socal2 says

Really? Christianity is "Particularly" more vile, evil dangerous......than Islam or the other world's religions?

No. Nor was any such statement said or implied by this thread. Again, you need to read carefully and accurately. The title of this thread is Why religion (particularly Christianity) is vile, evil, narcissistic & dangerous not Christianity is more evil than Islam.

The reason this thread has that title is that Sam Harris is talking particularly about Christianity, but what the ideas behind what he says applies to all religion.

You'll find a lot less to complain about if you increase the accuracy of your reading.

socal2 says

But Dan has to put the qualifier (particularly Christianity) because he is an unthinking PC Prog or a coward.

Of course, since your premise is flawed as shown in the above post, all of your conclusions are invalid. The only question that remains is whether or not you are man enough to admit your mistake, apologize, and retract your statements.

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

SoftShell says

The evidence shows she knew but chose to ignore that part, unless you have evidence she did not know

Honey,

SoftShell says

Buttercup,

I'm getting jealous here. :(

Don't be. SoftShell is the bottom. And yes, his shell is quite soft from years of pounding.

par·tic·u·lar·ly
pə(r)ˈtikyələrlē/Submit
adverb
1.to a higher degree than is usual or average.
synonyms: especially, specially, very, extremely, exceptionally, singularly, peculiarly, unusually, extraordinarily, remarkably, outstandingly,

socal2 says

par·tic·u·lar·ly

Haven't you learned from the SATs that the meaning of a word in context is not always the first definition listed in the dictionary?

Particularly

3: in particular : specifically

Now if you actually watched the video and paid attention, it would be crystal clear that the video if talking about the particular examples of Christianity being vile and cruel. At no time does the video compare Christianity to other religions or make a quantitative assessment of how bad Christian morality is compared to Islam or any other religion.

If you didn't bother to watch the video, then any misinterpretation of the title is solely your fault. The title's intended meaning is clear and accurate to anyone who actually watched the video. Any misunderstanding is all on you.

The Christianity vs. Islam vs Judaism argument is like
"Well, Stalin killed 30 Bazillion People, so Hitler and Franco's murderous binges don't count."

thunderlips11 says

The Christianity vs. Islam vs Judaism argument is like

"Well, Stalin killed 30 Bazillion People, so Hitler and Franco's murderous binges don't count."

When the numbers are something like 1000 to 1 and you have to go back 4 centuries to document Christianity's worst atrocities compared to Commie or Islam's atrocities a few decades ago.........I think it is germane.

socal2 says

thunderlips11 says

The Christianity vs. Islam vs Judaism argument is like

"Well, Stalin killed 30 Bazillion People, so Hitler and Franco's murderous binges don't count."

When the numbers are something like 1000 to 1 and you have to go back 4 centuries to document Christianity's worst atrocities compared to Commie or Islam's atrocities a few decades ago.........I think it is germane.

So Son of Sam killing people 40 years ago isn't important, because some Son of Sam Junior killed a few more people last year. Got it.

You know why Christianity doesn't kill people like they used to? The Enlightenment, and God is Dead. That's why. The West has gloriously moved past barbarian superstition.

Of course, in Eastern Europe about 60-70 years ago, there were plenty of people who killed for religious reasons. Go look at who donated to Jon Demanjuk's several decades of appeals, hearings, and trials. Way beyond the capacity of a "retired autoworker" to pay by himself. Hint: Mel Gibson's Dad.

Oh, and in Spain too. It wasn't just anti-communism, Franco was leading a "Crusade"

Viva Christo Rey!

Can't we all get along?

The Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are all disgusting outgrowths of the same putrid origin.

Just keep that in your mind, and you can't go wrong.

Peter P says

Can't wait for Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt to come out:

That will be funny, for an episode or two. Then you'll get bored of how she remains so eternally innocent.

Dan is right on. I grew up going to church regularly, sat quietly, but very little of it made any sense to me. God loves you, but murders babies every day. God listens to you, but capriciously decides which prayers do and don't get answered. God is all-powerful, and once chose to part the Red Sea, but he's been taking a nap from those duties for a while...

God is a complete psycho!

thunderlips11 says

So Son of Sam killing people 40 years ago isn't important, because some Son of Sam Junior killed a few more people last year. Got it.

Sure, going back decades is relevant. Comparing numbers from Bronze age man..........not so much.

For the record, all man made organizations (religion, political parties, unions) are capable of violence and greed.

I just don't think atheists can feel so smug when they have the horrible record of Communism to deal with in terms of human rights atrocities.

socal2 says

I just don't think atheists can feel so smug when they have the horrible record of Communism to deal with

Uhh ... there are plenty of atheists who are neither Bolsheviks nor Stalinists.

(Since 99.9% of all humans aren't Stalinists, this really isn't much of a claim.)

HydroCabron says

Uhh ... there are plenty of atheists who are neither Bolsheviks nor Stalinists.

And lots of Christians (and Muslims) who aren't crusaders or jihadis.

thunderlips11 says

The Christianity vs. Islam vs Judaism argument is like

"Well, Stalin killed 30 Bazillion People, so Hitler and Franco's murderous binges don't count."

Exactly. They are all bad and for the same reasons. The only difference is degree, and even that is a function of time.

So unenlightened man conjours up a skydaddie to assuage his fears of mortality, and you call this disgusting and putrid?
Why do you hate evolution?

HydroCabron says

The Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are all disgusting outgrowths of the same putrid origin.