patrick.net

Rew says

PeopleUnited says

I just don't know how warped this version of Islam is?

Rew said "You should probably learn some more and decide whether you believe the fringe minority radical Islamic practice is warped or true Islam."

Rew, the founder of Islam practiced the violence recorded in the Koran and taught his followers to do the same. So I would say that the true Islam is the extremely violent terrorist Islam practiced by the faithful. The other Muslim religious are Islam in name only. Just waiting to be radicalized and converted to true Islam.

Given the propensity of interracial relations, I agree with this statement.
It could only be derailed, however, by a nuclear ELE...

marcus says

Also, becasue I believe that globalization is inevitable

CL says

Encourage the good ones to work on the bad ones is the only thing that works.

Best way to do that is to allow refugees to use the resources(schools/section 8) close to those in the best neighborhoods instead of putting them in twin falls Idaho or other off the beaten path locales.

Ironic how those who fight for the right to accommodate refugees never want them using their schools and giving them the best chance of not becoming radicalized.

Having said that, it is STILL worth noting that many radicalized people are actually highly educated....so jury is out on whether education is answer.

What is clear is that ghettoization is definitely not the answer.

Lastly good luck, since the bad muslims (those who don't take literal interpretations of Koran) often support those who do

marcus says

I've answered this claim multiple times. I

It's the first time I've ever seen you address it directly and I skim patnet most days.

Interesting that you support h1-b for engineers who are educated here (Bachelor or masters)....for most part I do ....still I believe that the numbers should be decreased and there shouldn't be scenarios where people (citizens) are training replacements, especially those who do not have technical degrees

Also the loopholes that allow sweatshops to game system through L-1 should be cracked down upon.

Having said that NO ONE is going to come from India to work as a teacher WITHOUT being offered an h1-b upfront, as there is zero incentive to get a student visa for said purpose.

Realistically, US cannot rely on idealist teach for America types to fill the void since those guys are really about padding their resume for something bigger and better.

marcus says

Btw, if I had chosen tech a while back, with my background in trading, I would be making at least twice what I make now, if not a lot more.

Does this mean you teach in a bougie school district and not one of the tougher schools?

If you teach in a bougie school, then you don't really need to worry about competition because h1-b teach in school districts that most white teachers don't want to go to

That's all we need: more teachers who we can't understand through their thick accents. I'm sure the teachers unions would be pleased with the scab H1B competition as well...
if Marcus had gone into tech he'd be a janitor at a tech firm.

NY Board of Reagents drops Literacy Test to Certify Teachers: Because too many minorities fail it.
http://nypost.com/2017/03/06/state-considering-major-changes-to-teacher-certification-exams/

4 years of College and you can't pass a literacy test? Folks, this isn't any different than the Reading Comprehension part of the SAT most people take to get INTO College:
http://www.nystce.nesinc.com/Content/STUDYGUIDE/NY_SG_SRI_202.htm

But then, Education Degrees are earned by the lowest SAT scores by Major, so not a surprise.

curious2 says

I see the same pattern recur in this "debate" across different threads and sites. No amount of evidence persuades the partisans, who rely on their corrupted sloganeers. Even when Hillary Clinton acknowledged that lethal terrorism "is clearly rooted in Islamic thinking," it made no difference, because she said increasing mass surveillance will somehow protect us all from her Saudi sponsors. It's bizarre to see people throwing themselves onto the Saudi sword while demanding everyone else must do the same.

Among major party nominees for President, only Donald Trump spoke candidly about Islam and what was happening in the Middle East. (Among independent parties, Jill Stein also spoke candidly about the Middle East. Gary Johnson acknowledged not knowing what Aleppo is, and that was also candid, but Donald Trump and Jill Stein were obviously better informed.)

WaPoIsHitl...

PeopleUnited says

why any non-Moslem would consider it a good thing if more Moslems lived in their town or neighborhood.

Let's take a look at this Map of Terror Attacks. ( @curious2 )

Funny, the Country with the most Right Wing government in Europe has no terror attacks, and yet we are warned Right Wing Terror is deadliest of all by the Media. I wonder what else this hard right country (doesn't) do the same as everybody else, that they have no terror?

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2013/04/22/help-stoplimit-muslim-immigration-into-your-country/

According to PeopleUnited in another thread: Trump is doing great, because PeopleUnited says

He isn't her. And that is the point isn't it?

By that standard, Islam and ISIS is great too. @PeopleUnited, would you rather ISIS or the Democrats govern the US?

Lashkar_i_Trumpi says

the Country with the most Right Wing government in Europe has no terror attacks....

I lament that secular liberal governments are too easily corrupted by Petrodollar baksheesh and wishful thinking, with multiculturalism becoming a secular cult similar to Jonestown or the Branch Davidians. An educated and very smart "liberal" friend told me she would rather be killed in the name of Islam than stop importing Muslims. I believe her. The hypnosis has become so powerful, reinforced for so long by the NATO MSM echo chamber, that evidence and reason don't stand a chance. I would really prefer genuinely liberal government, but trying to explain to "multiculturalists" what Islam says and does to people around the world is like trying to deprogram members of a cult at its zenith while they are still living in it.

YesYNot says

or

Your comment is technically correct, but alas the correct conjunction in 2016 was "and". As I see it, we have around two years to persuade Democrats that spreading Islam is not liberal.

ISIL/Daesh is run by a Muslim with a PhD in Islamic studies, born to a Muslim family in a Muslim community. He grew up in a country that has more than 90% Muslims (as most countries with more than 20% Muslims do, because refusing to submit to Islam becomes too difficult for all but a few, and then the Muslims need to import non-Muslims to do much of the work, e.g. the Barbary States' slave trade and the current Petrodollar-driven quasi-slave trade and hiring of Rashomon among others). ISIL/Daesh spokesmen justify everything its enforcers do by reading from texts the vast majority of Muslims hold sacred. If you mock those texts, or call them false or not worth believing anymore, all too many Muslims would literally kill you: Asia Bibi is now on death row in Pakistan for blasphemy, and KSA calls atheists "terrorists" along with anyone else who questions the fundamentals of Islam, and when Muslims murdered French cartoonists huge numbers of Muslims rioted in solidarity with the Islamic murderers and against the French. ISIL/Daesh has everything to do with Islam, and descriptions of similar Islamic barbarism go back more than a thousand years. Sam Harris made the point well: the current secular left refuse to accept that anyone can actually believe in a religion, and thus the secular left fail to understand how the world looks through religious eyes; the religious "right" see Islam more clearly, and recognize the threat, because religion is real to them. You can see it in the comments by religious users of PatNet: for them, religion is the founding assumption and ultimate conclusion, "the alpha and the omega."

Well said curious2. ISIS is pure Islam, the culmination of the Islamic culture. The world has finally started to experience what Islam really is.

curious2 says

for them, religion is the founding assumption and ultimate conclusion, "the alpha and the omega."

Yeah, but they are not true Christians. If you want to apply the textual originalist method of reading to the Koran, then apply it to the bibles too. Then we can get on with our war against Christianity too.

RIots against Christians are common in Pakistan, and in the most recent trial, over 100 rioters were acquited, despite countless videos and witness testimonies.

The converse is not true: Christians who rioted over bombings of two Churches, 42 were given terrorism sentences.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2017/february/pakistan-convicts-christians-acquits-muslims-lahore-riots.html

Not only are people lynched frequently on mere accusations of blasphemy, but the few politicians who stand up against it are assassinated.
http://thediplomat.com/2017/04/even-a-horrific-murder-isnt-enough-to-shake-pakistans-blasphemy-laws/

Lashkar_i_Trumpi says

RIots against Christians are common in Pakistan, and in the most recent trial, over 100 rioters were acquited, despite countless videos and witness testimonies.

The converse is not true: Christians who rioted over bombings of two Churches, 42 were given terrorism sentences.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2017/february/pakistan-convicts-christians-acquits-muslims-lahore-riots.html

Not only are people lynched frequently on mere accusations of blasphemy, but the few politicians who stand up against it are assassinated.

http://thediplomat.com/2017/04/even-a-horrific-murder-isnt-enough-to-shake-pakistans-blasphemy-laws/

An Islamic country is no place for the infidels. Your days are always numbered.

PeopleUnited says

ISIS is pure Islam, the culmination of the Islamic culture.

This is absolutely true.

ISIS is nothing other than Islam taken seriously. Muslims know this, but will not admit it to Westerners. Except for this guy:

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/12/04/video-egyptian-human-rights-activist-isis-is-doing-what-the-prophet-muhammad-did/

The Quranic texts are crystal clear. When the Quran says “strike their necks,” it is very clear. When it says “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day, and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful, and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – until they give the jizya willingly while they are humbled” it is very clear, and ISIS understands and implements it in Iraq, Syria, and elsewhere.

Boko Haram are also implementing this when they capture women. This is what the Prophet Muhammad and his companions did.

rando says

The Quranic texts are crystal clear. When the Quran says “strike their necks,” it is very clear. When it says “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day, and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful, and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – until they give the jizya willingly while they are humbled” it is very clear, and ISIS understands and implements it in Iraq, Syria, and elsewhere.

From the article: Blame the Jews:
Sheik Sayyed Zaid: First of all, who says that ISIAS is an Islamic group? About a week ago, the American media declared that the ISIS leader, Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi – who has nothing to do with Islam – is of Israeli origin. This is a Mossad ploy. America said this, not me.

YesYNot says

If you want to apply the textual originalist method of reading to the Koran, then apply it to the bibles too.

If you took the time to read both, instead of asserting from ignorance that they are equivalent, then you would know they are not. I've survived countless debates with Christians and can quote chapter and verse from both the NT and the OT, in addition to the Koran. You would never survive a similar debate in Pakistan; you'd be legally executed for blasphemy. Also, although Christian "fundamentalists" claim to believe every word of the KJV (even the contradictions between expressly different authors, and the known errors in translation), Muslims have a much simpler method of resolving apparent conflicts between passages of the Koran: Mohamed could change his mind and adapt to his own growing power; whatever he said last, governs. The whole fraud of Islam was literally invented by that one charlatan, and there's no arguing with him. He started out small and seemingly harmless (microsoft), but he became increasingly lethal as he and his followers gained power. The dead charlatan Mohamed remains the ultimate example for Muslims to follow, and his biography repeats in the process of hijrah (importing jihadis as "refugees") and Islamization. Muslims know about the sunnah, but use taqiyyeh to deceive infidels, especially the identitarian liberal "multiculturalists" who want emotionally to believe that "religions are all the same." (BTW, saying that in Pakistan would be a capital offense, and Muslim countries are organizing a global jihad against blasphemy including specifically online, and that is consistent with the Islamic State publishing home addresses of blasphemers - including atheists - and other high value targets, e.g. American transit police. Be careful how many jihadis you want to import, and whether you really want to rent rooms in your house to them; be careful what you wish for. Most killings in the name of Islam are not counted as terrorism, because they happen one at a time, e.g. the bloggers in Bangladesh. Remember, "assassin" began as an Islamic word.)

rando says

This is absolutely true.

ISIS is nothing other than Islam taken seriously. Muslims know this, but will not admit it to Westerners. Except for this guy:

https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/12/04/video-egyptian-human-rights-activist-isis-is-doing-what-the-prophet-muhammad-did/

2:12
Atheist Egyptian Activist Ahmad Harqan ISIS Is Doing what the Prophet Muhammad Did
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ISIS+Is+Doing+what+the+Prophet+Muhammad+Did

curious2 says

asserting from ignorance that they are equivalent

I never asserted that they were equivalent. I asserted that they are both intolerable. Thankfully, most American 'Christians' are not true Christians. curious2 says

You would never survive a similar debate in Pakistan

I'm not planning on going there. I like it here, and i don't want to import any jihadis.

curious2 says

You would never survive a similar debate in Pakistan; you'd be executed for blasphemy.

This is the most essential point.

YesYNot says

You would never survive a similar debate in Pakistan

I'm not planning on going there. I like it here, and i don't want to import any jihadis.

Stick to the internet YesYNot. Lots of people here who think just like the Jihadis.

YesYNot says

According to PeopleUnited in another thread: Trump is doing great, because PeopleUnited says

He isn't her. And that is the point isn't it?

By that standard, Islam and ISIS is great too. @PeopleUnited, would you rather ISIS or the Democrats govern the US?

Demorats are funny animals. Can I have a third option? What about Ross Perot, is he available?

YesYNot says

curious2 says

for them, religion is the founding assumption and ultimate conclusion, "the alpha and the omega."

Yeah, but they are not true Christians. If you want to apply the textual originalist method of reading to the Koran, then apply it to the bibles too. Then we can get on with our war against Christianity too.

A liberal democrat finally speaking the truth. So you admit you want to wage war on Christianity? How enlightened of you. If only the world had more hatred for Christians!

Nominated

PeopleUnited says

If only the world had more hatred for Christians

I don't hate fake Christians like you. It's just true Christianity that needs to go. Fortunately, organized religion stopped practicing true Christianity. We just have to get them to admit that they are using a textual originalist interpretation when it suits there needs while applying a filter on the parts that are too extreme. Once they admit that, then they can stop pushing their flavor of morality on the rest of us.

YesYNot says

PeopleUnited says

If only the world had more hatred for Christians

I don't hate fake Christians like you. It's just true Christianity that needs to go. Fortunately, organized religion stopped practicing true Christianity. We just have to get them to admit that they are using a textual originalist interpretation when it suits there needs while applying a filter on the parts that are too extreme. Once they admit that, then they can stop pushing their flavor of morality on the rest of us.

Ok I'll bite. What makes you think I am a fake Christian? What does this mythical
"true Christianity teach" according to you, a self described hater of so called true "Christianity "

PeopleUnited says

Ok I'll bite.

Lots of people on this board apply a textual originalist (fundamentalist) reading of the Koran to define true Islam. I've argued that it's bad from a strategic standpoint. Ideally, Islam would move away from such readings, and the official teachings would be more in line with modern Western morality. However, they insist on reading the Koran in a fundamentalist way (as ISIS does) to define true Islam. To be consistent, they ought to apply the same method to define true Christianity and Judaism. That is why in the post that got your attention, I said "If you want to apply the textual originalist... Then we can get on with our war against Christianity too.

I'm using the term 'textual originalist' instead of fundamentalist to get people thinking about the supreme court. Christians like the so called 'textual originalists,' but nobody really applies textual originalism across the board to Christianity or even the Constitution. They selectively apply it to the parts that are still acceptable to today's consensus morality.

I'm not going to pretend to be a religious scholar and have not interest in being one (for any religion). But I don't have to be. I can simply point to all of the different forms of Christianity today and all of the different teachings of Christians throughout the last 2000 years to show that there is no consistent interpretation. There is also a trend to get to lighter and lighter interpretations, because the original ones are just not acceptable anymore. Also, people try to say that the bad parts of the old testament don't apply, but they cannot point to any text in the new testament that defines this.

YesYNot says

Also, people try to say that the bad parts of the old testament don't apply, but they cannot point to any text in the new testament that defines this.

I can.

Galatians chapter 3

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Old Testament is law and history with some prophecy mixed in. But the above passage clarifies the Old Testment Biblical law not as a set of rules to be followed, but as a set of rules that teach us we are sinners. And it also clearly states that once we have faith (that Jesus has paid our sin debt) we no longer need the law nor are we subject to keeping/following Old Testament Biblical law.

PeopleUnited says

there is neither male nor female:

This means that he is she, doesn't it?

If you are a sinner for breaking those laws, but you don't have to follow those laws, that means you are free to sin.

YesYNot says

If you are a sinner for breaking those laws, but you don't have to follow those laws, that means you are free to sin.

YesYNot says

PeopleUnited says

Galations chapter 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

This means that he is she, doesn't it?

It means in the eternal dimension there is no differences.

PeopleUnited says

eternal dimension

It doesn't say that.

If there are consequences to sinning, then you should obey the old laws.

YesYNot says

PeopleUnited says

eternal dimension

It doesn't say that.

The eternal dimension is a concept that is addressed and elaborated on from Genesis through Revelation. That concept is relevant here.

YesYNot says

If there are consequences to sinning, then you should obey the old laws.

You are very close to understanding it. But you are treating the Bible as if it were simply a rule book. Remember the law was written to guide you to Christ.

Jesus elaborated on the law during a meeting with the religious leaders of His day. One of them happened to be a lawyer, who no doubt understood that laws sometimes come into conflict with one another and therefore required further definition/elaboration. We pick up the action in Matthew Chapter 22.

34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus condensed the law down to two commandments.

curious2 says

need to import non-Muslims to do much of the work, e.g. the Barbary States' slave trade and the current Petrodollar-driven quasi-slave trade and hiring of Rashomon among others).

The real reason they hire non-muslims is because they are lazy and incompetent. Saudi Arabia has very high unemployment. The non muslims have "taken their jobs". Never mind fact that those whining are incapable of doing said jobs

YesYNot says

Ideally, Islam would move away from such readings, and the official teachings would be more in line with modern Western morality. However, they insist on reading the Koran in a fundamentalist way (as ISIS does) to define true Islam

Given the choice of a secular dictator of ISIS, most muslims in the Middle East would select theocracy, which is what ISIS is really all about

MMR says

curious2 says

need to import non-Muslims to do much of the work, e.g. the Barbary States' slave trade and the current Petrodollar-driven quasi-slave trade and hiring of Rashomon among others).

The real reason they hire non-muslims is because they are lazy and incompetent. Saudi Arabia has very high unemployment. The non muslims have "taken their jobs". Never mind fact that those whining are incapable of doing said jobs

I read last week that the Saudis are trying to diversify their economy so as not to rely on the oil industry. They are spending billions to develop technology. Sadly, they could not find talent. I was bursting with laughter. 80% of Saudis who go for graduate studies do so in Islam and religion. What talent do you gain by memorizing the Koran?

YesYNot says

Ideally, Islam would move away from such readings, and the official teachings would be more in line with modern Western morality.

Ideally, we would all live forever in good health with no need for medical care, and ride around on solar powered unicorns that emit only rainbows.

Here on earth, in most countries that have Muslim majorities, most Muslims demand Sharia. IOW, they demand that you, personally, must be killed as a blasphemer. You are condemned as a terrorist, "the worst of beasts," because you are an unbeliever. Even Vaticanus could survive as a subjugated dhimmi, bowing down and paying jizya and submitting to Sharia, but you, YesYNot, must be killed. Muslims would and do vote to do exactly that, and feel good about it.

If you want to persuade Muslims that they should line up with western morality, then try that where they live currently rather than bringing them here. As Nassim Taleb wrote, the dynamic of Islam drags down nearly every place where it has influence: "The West is currently in the process of committing suicide." In the UK, where the dole subsidizes polygamous Muslim families, young Muslims are actually more intolerant than the old. They live in the west, and yet they reject western morality. The "strategic" error is importing Muslims and celebrating/empowering/financing Islam, as Daniel Pipes and HIllary Clinton propose. The question ultimately is how to get Muslims to reject Islam. You don't achieve that by spreading and empowering Islam.

curious2 says

Daniel Pipes

I take it this is a mistake; Daniel Pipes is an Islam critic, no?