patrick.net

BayArea says

Also, how are gains taxed compared to typical stock market gains?

There are no taxes on bitcoin gains, since no one knows who the owners are. I suppose you could get caught at the point of converting it to dollars, but why even bother converting if merchants will directly accept bitcoin?

Patrick says

but why even bother converting if merchants will directly accept bitcoin?

to cash out big sums to buy a car or a house, they need to.

one of these days the gov will ban all of them. crypto currencies are heaven for tax evasion and money laundering. enough people do it, tax revenue will be down and uncle Sam will step in.

Newbie123 says

In my opinion, Cryptocurrency has just started. Once the institutional money starts trading it it will take off even more.

I don't doubt what you're saying here. Bitcoin could hit 20k for all I know and I'll miss out on those gains admittedly.

The one question I've had for pretty much all the people I've heard getting into this market, mind you these are people that are lucky to have a $60k a year job, what happens when the government shuts this down? I've yet to hear an answer that would make me even remotely comfortable investing in this stuff. So much of the language and behavior around bitcoin and crypto currencies has the smell of the pump and dump penny stock markets. There's absolutely money to be made. Massive amounts. You're a fool though to think you know the game compared to the people running this market.

This is anecdotal, but I know one individual VERY well that gets burned on anything he does outside of the field he knows. Literally EVERYTHING. He's pushing crypto. So yeah, I'll stay away. I've followed this policy of avoiding his choices and it has done me better then most "strategies." This isn't a joke either. He has the heard mentality and gets burned every time.

I'd personally stay away BayArea, but everyone's risk tolerance is different. Tread carefully with money you'd be willing to lose at a casino would be my only advice. For me right now, that would be $10k. But I'd rather spend 40 hours researching companies, that are legal entities and extremely unlikely to be shut down, that might pop on the regular stock market, Throw the $10k at them. Versus buying bitcoin that will very likely be shut down at some point by the US government and most foreign governments. For me it's a when not if conversation about bitcoin being shut down. That's just my opinion and I think anyone saying otherwise is just stating their own opinion. And that's the problem with this type of market. Good luck if you do decide to dive in though.

anonymous says

Coinbase ordered to report 14,355 users to the IRS. Anyone moving more than $20,000 on the platform is subject to the new order.

This is interesting. We'll see how it plays out. Looks like the IRS has the bitcoin can of worms now. Let's see if they open it.
anonymous says

The introduction of various financial products around Bitcoin will amplify the amount of risk investors can take. Cantor Fitzgerald, a large broker which owns an exchange, announced today that it plans to launch Bitcoin derivatives in the first half of 2018. Futures and derivatives allow investors to place bets on bitcoin without owning any of the actual currency, amplifying the amount of financial leverage on the underlying asset. It was an explosion of derivatives pegged to real estate assets like mortgages that underpinned the financial collapse of 2008.

This is really starting to amaze me. You could have made a lot of money inflating the real estate bubble, just like you can now in bitcoin/cryptos. So there are opportunities. But I think everyone can agree a less regulated real estate and mortgage market caused some massive problems for some people. I don't see how bitcoin/cryptos don't come back to earth (or some even cease to exist) in the coming months or years. Too much risk for me. I also don't need fuck you money. That can corrupt people that think they can handle it.

Bitcoin plunges 20% from its high.

It's been a wild ride for bitcoin traders.

From Wednesday's high of $11,363.99, bitcoin has fallen to a low of $9,021.85, a 20.6 percent drop. The crypotocurrency is in a period of extreme volatility after a strong showing over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend, when it set multiple all-time records.

Bitcoin last traded at $9,206.13, down 6.2 percent on Thursday, according to CoinDesk.

But despite the cryptocurrency's sharp decline after hitting an all-time high, it could fall to near $7,000 without doing much damage on a technical basis, said Mark Newton of Newton Advisors.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/30/bitcoin-plunges-20-percent-from-its-high.html

Patrick says

BayArea says

Also, how are gains taxed compared to typical stock market gains?

There are no taxes on bitcoin gains, since no one knows who the owners are. I suppose you could get caught at the point of converting it to dollars, but why even bother converting if merchants will directly accept bitcoin?

Paying with bitcoin is also a taxable event, if I understand the IRS gibberish correctly.

KimJongUn says

Paying with bitcoin is also a taxable event, if I understand the IRS gibberish correctly.

I don't even know if it's gibberish. If you start with 1 and end with 2, the IRS is getting something in between. I'm not sure the currency matters, at least if you're a US citizen. I could be wrong of course, but fighting the IRS most the time is a losing battle.

I think it's here to stay but nonetheless overvalued. Also the uncertainty wrt taxes and possible penalties/prosecution will keep many away from going big on bitcoin. But it will definitely become a player so I guess any value from $500-$20000 is possible from here, considering its wild swings. Not for me. Also the current mania and funds asking you to join them reminds me of the comical/frantic bay area real estate radio commercials where they ask you to blindly put your money into some flippers/REIT investors schemes.

WookieMan says

KimJongUn says

Paying with bitcoin is also a taxable event, if I understand the IRS gibberish correctly.

I don't even know if it's gibberish. If you start with 1 and end with 2, the IRS is getting something in between. I'm not sure the currency matters, at least if you're a US citizen. I could be wrong of course, but fighting the IRS most the time is a losing battle.

Buying and selling assets with bitcoins might be a way of evading taxes and government scrutiny.

Nearly doubled in the last month

Up ~10x this year

I think I may make a small investment into bitcoin if for nothing more than to force me to better understand it.


So there are currently 16M coins and by definition, there can never be more than 21M coins to cap supply

It’s decentralized, backed by umm.. nothing?

I’ve looked at “Coinbase” ...or GDAX to acquire bitcoin for little to no fees.

I’m not so worried about being able to acquire it but I’m terrified of not being able to turn it back into cash when I want to... any thoughts on that?

BayArea says

no taxation on gains

wrong

KimJongUn says

BayArea says

no taxation on gains

wrong

Explain por favor

Also, what is the smallest fraction of bitcoin that I can buy today?

And is Coinbase or GDAX preferred for a first time investor?