patrick.net

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

The national debt almost DOUBLED under Obama from about $10T to $20T.

Read the quote again. Deficit and Debt are NOT the same thing.

Obama reduced the deficit. Trump is ballooning it out of control.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Unemployment has really done well under Trump. Obama's recovery was sluggish, it should have been roaring back by 2011.

Really? Why don't you post the unemployment rates since 2008 so we can judge.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

GDP "Growth" coming out of a horrific recession of "Negative Growth" isn't the same as a sustained boom. Like I said, the hallmark of the Obama "recovery" was how slow and weak it was. Even in 2010, Obama lost millions of jobs.

Womp, womp, again. Those growth rates were in 2014.

LeonDurham says

Read the quote again. Deficit and Debt are NOT the same thing.

Obama reduced the deficit. Trump is ballooning it out of control.

Obama increased the debt, however. It is not "Ballooning" out of control under Trump.

Obama's first budget has a $1.3T deficit. T for Trillion.

It was the Republicans, not Obama, that forced a sequestration in 2013 that ended up the first Obama era budget not topping a Trillion-dollar deficit

LeonDurham says

Womp, womp, again. Those growth rates were in 2014.

Long Delayed. Those should have been in 2010 or 2011 at the very latest. More likely to do with the huge Republican surge in 2010 and 2012.

Meanwhile, all the numbers for the Entire Trump Presidency are more than respectable, and there are no signs of slowing down.

In 2012, Obama bragged he created 3M jobs since 2010, and anemic number of 90,000 per month, well below the population growth rate, and not only not adequate for that point after the trough of a recession, but rather recessionary in and of itself.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Obama increased the debt, however. It is not "Ballooning" out of control under Trump.

Obama's first budget has a $1.3T deficit. T for Trillion.

It was the Republicans, not Obama, that forced a sequestration in 2013 that ended up the first Obama era budget not topping a Trillion-dollar deficit

Are you kidding me? Obama inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression. Trump was given a booming economy.

And spare me the nonsense that all Republicans spew--either the President is responsible for the budget or he isn't. You can't blame him for the increased spending without crediting him for reducing spending. Unless you're a dishonest "team Republican" member.

Aphroman says

solely because the DNC went with Hillary.

And yet, what part of her platform have they changed really? Some few Democrats campaign on Bernie's platform, but most in the Congress demand mandatory HeritageFoundationCare aka Hillary's Plan aka Obamneycare. And, they "can't wait" to get more Muslims into the Congress. Hillary's problems included the fact that she campaigned honestly (in the sense that she said what she would do, even though she lied about why she would do it) on some really unpopular things: for example, she tried to sell the HeritageFoundationCare mandate, claiming it was a good idea, while Obama campaigned against it but then spun around and signed it, lying along the way including at least one "lie of the year" (per PolitiFact). Hillary acknowledged on TV that lethal terrorism "is clearly rooted in Islamic thinking," and her e-mails acknowledged her Saudi clients were principal funders of terrorism worldwide, but she insisted on spreading Islam and now Democrats "can't wait" to see more of it in Congress.

In this thread, we continue to see the same attempted subterfuge. Obama's deficits were front-loaded, so instead of the fact that he doubled the debt, we hear partisans claim that he reduced the deficit. It's unreal, and it doesn't fool enough people in enough places to win.

I agree with the 50/50 forecast from 2Scoops, a lot can happen in 80 days, but so far I see more Democrats repeating the same playbook from 2016 rather than 2008.

curious2 says

Obama's deficits were front-loaded, so instead of the fact that he doubled the debt, we hear partisans claim that he reduced the deficit.

lol--they're called honest posters.

LeonDurham says

Are you kidding me? Obama inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression. Trump was given a booming economy.

Obama had one of the weakest recoveries in US History, particularly outside of the Coastal Enclaves. By 2012 we still were behind millions of jobs, with pathetic growth rates, despite adding trillions to the Debt. Like I said, one or two quarters of 4 and 5% years after the trough of a recession is NOTHING to brag about, it's something to be concerned about.

Nobody, not even CNN - is making the case that Trump is doing a banging job on the economy.

Real Wages have stunk for most of the past few decades and won't be fixed in a day. It will be fixed by cutting off the nearly unlimited labor supply for big companies.

curious2 says

but Democrats demand spreading Islam and "can't wait" to see more of it in Congress.

See this is a good example of a strawman argument.

LeonDurham says

See this is a good example of a strawman argument.

Not at all. my whole life, Democrat Activists have whinged about religion in politics, Jesus/God in the Public Forum, Separation of Church and State etc. etc.

Now that there are two conservative Muslim candidates, the Democrats are dancing around about how wonderful it is to have religious people running for office.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Nobody, not even CNN - is making the case that Trump is doing a banging job on the economy.

Uh, pat.netters sure make that case.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Real Wages have stunk for most of the past few decades and won't be fixed in a day. It will be fixed by cutting off the nearly unlimited labor supply for big companies.

Fix it? All he's done has made it worse.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Not at all. my whole life, Democrat Activists have whinged about religion in politics, Jesus/God in the Public Forum, Separation of Church and State etc. etc.

Now that there are two conservative Muslim candidates, the Democrats are dancing around about how wonderful it is to have religious people running for office.

OK--please share any example of a Dem demanding that Islam be spread.

LeonDurham says

Fix it? All he's done has made it worse.

Look at your own chart and explain 2013 and 2014, those boom years of Obama. Way after the trough of a recession, when wages should be booming.

LeonDurham says

OK--please share any example of a Dem demanding that Islam be spread.

Not what I said. I said that before, they "worried" about religion in politics. Now, they are celebrating that conservative Muslims are running for office as Dems.

Even if they married for visas.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Look at your own chart and explain 2013 and 2014, those boom years of Obama. Way after the trough of a recession, when wages should be booming.

Why? You're the one saying the economy sucked under Obama and it's much better now. Please show me how real wages going down and negative is better?

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Not what I said. I said that before, they "worried" about religion in politics. Now, they are celebrating that conservative Muslims are running for office as Dems.

Even if they married for visas.

Yes it is. I claimed the quote was a strawman and you said, "not at all".

So please show me how it's not a strawman.

Too Much Religion! Stop asking candidates about their (Christian) Religion! Too much influence by (Christian) religion!
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/21/more-americans-say-too-much-religion-in-politics/
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/359571-dem-lawmaker-theres-too-much-religion-in-politics
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6906693.stm
http://prospect.org/article/god-republican-why-politics-dangerous-religion-0

But when it's Islam, it's GOOD!
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/first-muslim-elected-to-congress/
https://newrepublic.com/minutes/136605/nomination-muslim-federal-judge-obama-cements-reputation-president-firsts
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/us/politics/primary-results-minnesota-wisconsin.html
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2018-elections/2018/06/23/america-grew-muslim-democrats-find-welcoming-home-state-convention

Do you think that is the same as saying "Dems demanding Islam be spread"?

LeonDurham says

So please show me how it's not a strawman.

1) It was a direct quote, which I have since turned into a link.
2) You can find more examples of the same elsewhere, e.g.

"Tlaib also supported Omar's run, sending a dozen of her campaign workers to Minnesota to canvas for Omar the weekend before the election.

"I can't wait to walk onto the floor of United States Congress hand in hand with you. So incredibly proud of you," Tlaib said of Omar on Twitter.
***
Omar and Tlaib have vehemently opposed the president's ban on travelers from several Muslim-majority countries, and in 2016 Tlaib famously heckled Trump during his speech in Detroit.

"When you see a Palestinian person with your name and faith succeed, it shows [the government] can ban us from coming into the country, but not from getting elected," Tlaib told ABC News last week.
***
In her heavily Democratic district, less than 5 percent of the population identifies as Arab-American.
***
"I will fight back against every racist and oppressive structure that needs to be dismantled," Tlaib declared in her victory speech in a room largely filled with Arab-Americans."

OK, good luck with that, congratulations on the primary, but it doesn't portend a blue wave. BTW, I bolded the "can't wait" quotation for you; you can thank me later.

I'm looking for something saying "Dems demanding Islam be spread"

Nothing in the above says anything remotely like that.

LeonDurham says

Do you think that is the same as saying "Dems demanding Islam be spread"?

I see it as a double standard: Christian Belief undesirable; Muslim Belief desirable.

Labour is doing the same in the UK by the way.

I see the new PM of Pakistan lost his opportunity to condemn Theofascist Blasphemy laws, however.

LeonDurham says

Do you think that is the same as saying "Dems demanding Islam be spread"?

Hillary campaigned on importing (at American expense) at least 65k "Syrian" migrants in her first year, more to follow, 97% Sunni because the Syrian Christians and Shia were sheltering with Assad in order to avoid getting exterminated by the Sunni militias that Hillary was arming (also at American expense). Merkel imported 10x more Sunnis into other NATO countries. PatNet has a whole thread on Islamic Hijrah (totally different from the Hindu word hijra), including a map showing the "charity" IRAP serving Muslim-majority client countries by spreading Islam into NATO. Current Democrats campaign against the President's travel ban and demand to import more "refugee" Sunnis. So yes, Democrats were and are campaigning on spreading Islam.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

I see it as a double standard: Christian Belief undesirable; Muslim Belief desirable.

Only because you misinterpret it. Muslims are often discriminated against because of their religion. Dems are party of Bill of Rights and they believe in freedom of religion, so they applaud the underdog being elected.

Speaking of replacing Americans at work, I notice that Obama had settled lots of Sunni "Refugees" in Twin Falls, Idaho. His big donor Chobani has a big Yogurt plant there.

Should help keep wages low for Obama's friends.

LeonDurham says

I'm looking for something....

No, you're not looking. If you were looking, you would easily find examples. It's like in the Abhulimen thread, where you didn't even look at the linked video that showed a blank white key card, and instead you insisted based on your own alleged experience that key cards are not blank. Instead of looking at facts, you are trolling, demanding that other people do the looking for you, as if we were your retrievers. I have other things to do today, so I am done playing your silly little game. People will vote in November, and if your antics are the best that Democrats can do, I don't see a blue wave coming.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Speaking of replacing Americans at work, I notice that Obama had settled lots of Sunni "Refugees" in Twin Falls, Idaho. His big donor Chobani has a big Yogurt plant there.

Should help keep wages low for Obama's friends.

Do you really want to get into a discussion of scandals? Because the Trump Administration is the most fraudulent, self serving, bunch of money grabbers that the White House has ever seen.

Nope, best President ever. Not "managing a decline" like Obama or making the world safe for Globalists like Clinton-Bush.

Love how being tough on trade ended up with big concessions from Europe. Another thing the ever-wrong pundits were wrong about.

Just wait until the FISA scandal is finalized. Strzok is involved in everything from the shitty Iran Deal to entrapping Flynn to rigging the Election.

Tim Aurora says

You Russian can keep om telling that. Traitor Trump is very near to impeachment

Trump is about as far from impeachment as you can imagine. Mueller's millions and months upon months have turned up bupkiss "collusion".

LeonDurham says

Dems are party of Bill of Rights and they believe in freedom of religion, so they applaud the underdog being elected.

Let me correct that for you. Democrats are the party of cultural Marxism, which preaches that equality of OUTCOME is the greatest virtue, and anytime there is inequality then a crime has been committed by the strong against the weak.
With me so far?
Now whichever groups are historically the weakest or least successful are then deemed to be on the receiving side of racism, sexism and bigotry which MUST be the reason for their failure as a culture! Islam fits nicely into the “failure” paradigm, so by Leftist thinking: Muslims must be oppressed! Therefore any success of theirs is to be celebrated and any criticism of Islam or Muslim behavior is RACIST and just more of the strong oppressing the weak!
Still with me?

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Love how being tough on trade ended up with big concessions from Europe. Another thing the ever-wrong pundits were wrong about.

Tariffs are the one thing Trump got right, although the implementation left (and continues to leave) a lot to be desired. Liberals have been calling for them for a long time. It's Republicans and their "thinktanks" (Heritage, COC, et. al)that have fought against them for decades.

But, please detail these "big concessions" from Europe. What products? How much? When was the deal signed?

Quigley says

Let me correct that for you. Democrats are the party of cultural Marxism, which preaches that equality of OUTCOME is the greatest virtue, and anytime there is inequality then a crime has been committed by the strong against the weak.
With me so far?

No, because that's BS. Dems want equal opportunities, not equal outcomes.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Mueller's millions and months upon months have turned up bupkiss "collusion".

And you know this how exactly? Does Mueller confide in you? Or are you on the investigative team?

LeonDurham says

No, because that's BS. Dems want equal opportunities, not equal outcomes.

Uh, have you paid ANY attention to the news these past ten years? Socialism and equality of outcome are all the rage in Leftist circles. Racism is always to blame if outcomes are different. In fact, if I cared to dig up a few dozen of your OWN posts delineating this....

The Democrats are very against the bill of Rights and the first Ammendment in particular. We’ve seen unbridled censorship, restrictions against speech, assembly, and religious expression if the speech, assembly, or religion is NOT Leftist approved!
Your statement is exactly wrong. Perfectly diametrical from reality. It’s so false that it’s not even pants on fire, it’s GALACTICALLY WRONG!

Tim Aurora says

Trump is very near to impeachment

Please define "very near."

BTW, IRL, a friend expected him to be removed more than a year ago. It's like when people say the world will end in 2012 or whatever. It helps to get a specific date, because otherwise they keep saying "near...."

curious2 says

Tim Aurora says

Trump is very near to impeachment

Please define "very near."

BTW, IRL, a friend expected him to be removed more than a year ago. It's like when people say the world will end in 2012 or whatever. It helps to get a specific date, because otherwise they keep saying "near...."

Perhaps if they used more traditional language:
“The Impeachment is Nigh!”

Quigley says

Uh, have you paid ANY attention to the news these past ten years? Socialism and equality of outcome are all the rage in Leftist circles. Racism is always to blame if outcomes are different. In fact, if I cared to dig up a few dozen of your OWN posts delineating this....

The Democrats are very against the bill of Rights and the first Ammendment in particular. We’ve seen unbridled censorship, restrictions against speech, assembly, and religious expression if the speech, assembly, or religion is NOT Leftist approved!
Your statement is exactly wrong. Perfectly diametrical from reality. It’s so false that it’s not even pants on fire, it’s GALACTICALLY WRONG!

You keep saying such things, but all the evidence proves you wrong. Trump is the one who is opposed to freedom of the press. He is the one punishing his political opponents. He is the one against freedom of religion. I could go on and on.

Quigley says

Now whichever groups are historically the weakest or least successful are then deemed to be on the receiving side of racism,

LeonDurham says

And you know this how exactly? Does Mueller confide in you? Or are you on the investigative team?

Ummmm....
It was said months ago that Trump isn't a target of a criminal investigation
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/04/04/mueller-told-trump-hes-not-a-criminal-target-but-that-doesnt-mean-his-evidence-against-trump-is-weak/?noredirect=on

Love Democracy DIes in Our Deep State's attempt to put a spin on it, though. In fact the entire media was trying to spin this as Trump wasn't being "investigation". Uh yeah, it means Mueller isn't going after Trump himself.

LeonDurham says

Trump is the one who is opposed to freedom of the press.

You're confusing Freedom of the Press with being subject to Criticism.

It's very unnerving when the Press is making a full court press for and against something almost across the board, like Free Trade or the Iraq War or Voraciously Anti-Trump.

So far the only Press that has been silenced is Alternative Media via Big Tech with Legacy Media cheering it on.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Ummmm....
It was said months ago that Trump isn't a target of a criminal investigation
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/04/04/mueller-told-trump-hes-not-a-criminal-target-but-that-doesnt-mean-his-evidence-against-trump-is-weak/?noredirect=on

Love Democracy DIes in Our Deep State's attempt to put a spin on it, though.

lol--funny how when the press says what you want it to say, you believe it. But when it says something different, it's fake news.

The hypocrisy of the Trump cult is nothing short of ridiculous.

Regardless, if you read the article, it doesn't really say what you what it to say.

LeonDurham says

Trump is the one who is opposed to freedom of the press. He is the one punishing his political opponents. He is the one against freedom of religion. I could go on and on.

Lol, how about some facts though?

What evidence do you have for your assertions? I don't see any evidence at all that Trump is opposed to freedom of the press or freedom of religion.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

So far the only Press that has been silenced is Alternative Media via Big Tech with Legacy Media cheering it on.

Yes, now that's what I'm talking about! Actual facts.

Google and Facebook etc have truly literally censored the press, small press, but definitely clear undeniable censorship.

Trump has done no such thing. He calls them out on their ridiculously partisan coverage, but that's all.