patrick.net

WookieMan says

Bottom line, that MacBook 10 years ago was about $1,000. Put in some increased RAM to the tune of $150 about 5 years ago to knock it up to 16gb. Still works as well as the day I took it out of the box. You'd probably end up with 3 Windows laptops over this same period of time, probably costing more than $500 over the single MacBook.

Evan F. says

And much, MUCH higher resale on the secondary market. My MBP late 2013 could still fetch like $800. Any PC from 2013 would be a glorified doorstop in terms of resale.

Wow. Thanks for the info guys. I got my MacBook Pro on Jan 2, 2014. I just checked the RAM, and it's only 4Gigs. It works like it always has, and I thought I would only get 5 years out of it. My previous rotten PC's have never lasted more than 2 years.
Bottom line: Quality may have a higher sticker price, but it's a lot cheaper in the long run.

WookieMan says

I just find that your above average technology person (we're not talking IT bros or whatever) have better luck with Macs, from my observation. I'm a decade deep plus in Mac/Apple, but maybe things have changed on the Microsoft side of the world. I'm open to hearing the good, bad and ugly of any product, assuming it's been used by the person giving the opinion. I'm living flawlessly in my Mac world though. And I'm not just email and internet either like most Americans. I actually do productive shit with my computers. So I need them to work.

Just make sure all your important data is backed up. I heard all Hard Drives eventually fail.

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Except, like my Macbook, after a few years Apple refuses to support it, there are no updates for critical programs.

All companies eventually drop support on their products. That's when you really need a new computer.

Strategist says

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says

Except, like my Macbook, after a few years Apple refuses to support it, there are no updates for critical programs.

All companies eventually drop support on their products. That's when you really need a new computer.

or switch to linux.

bob2356 says

or switch to linux.

Do you really need linux today? Might work if you have the right skills, but for most people, just get a Mac. It won't be long before you can just tell Siri to "solve the fucking problem, and don't bother me"
Personal Assistants that can instantly get you any data is the future.....Hey Siri, can you find the receipt for the $5.00 pens I purchased 3 years ago, and send it to the fucking IRS.

I’ve switched to Mac after windows decided to get all mighty and take away my start button.

I think entire America tried to downgrade back to windows 7 cursing Microsoft.

@MrBark and @Evan F.,

You guys are being trolled.

@Strategist,

I'm surprised you're still waiting for your Model 3 reservation. Is it because you only want to buy the basic $35k model? I'm the owner of a Model S and used my account to order two Tesla Model 3 for my wife's siblings. Here are the cars line up in the recent visit to my in-law parents. They're amazing cars. Once you've owned and driven one, you don't want to go back and drive a gas car. My biz partner owns a Model X, also a white car. The instant torque is addictive. Everyone is loving their Tesla. Now my wife wants one where I already bought her a new MDX last year. I told her to give me another year. Sigh.....

Too much white bro, colored cars matter.

CBOEtrader says

Too much white bro, colored cars matter.

Exactly..

You would think that guy was some sort of a fanboy or something... Can you say "cult"?

E-man says

I'm surprised you're still waiting for your Model 3 reservation. Is it because you only want to buy the basic $35k model?

Yes, I don't want to go above $40K. The Model S is unaffordable to me. If the Model 3 was not so economical, I would not have considered buying it.



E-man says

I'm the owner of a Model S and used my account to order two Tesla Model 3 for my wife's siblings. Here are the cars line up in the recent visit to my in-law parents. They're amazing cars. Once you've owned and driven one, you don't want to go back and drive a gas car. My biz partner owns a Model X, also a white car. The instant torque is addictive. Everyone is loving their Tesla. Now my wife wants one where I already bought her a new MDX last year. I told her to give me another year. Sigh.....

The electric cars sure are addictive. Once you go electric, you never go back.
We got back from Yellowstone last week where we rented a mini van from Salt Lake City. We spent $200+ on gas. It felt like a total rip off even though gas was so cheap compared to California.
While on the subject, I would like to take the opportunity to apologize to Yellowstone and Mother Nature for polluting the air. I'm sorry.

Strategist says

bob2356 says

or switch to linux.

Do you really need linux today? Might work if you have the right skills, but for most people, just get a Mac. It won't be long before you can just tell Siri to "solve the fucking problem, and don't bother me"
Personal Assistants that can instantly get you any data is the future.....Hey Siri, can you find the receipt for the $5.00 pens I purchased 3 years ago, and send it to the fucking IRS.

Yes. Linux and a barebones combustion engine with as little electronic gimmicks as possible. Seat warmers for the missus may be and that's it.

Strategist says

Do you really need linux today?

I've used Ubuntu to run home media server, backup drive, and bittorrent service for a number of years. Plan to add an email server, but that project will take some time. I've extended the life of a shitty Dell I bought about 4 years back by running a stripped down Linux version, I think XLE.

Linux is for people who like doing things for themselves, and getting the most out of their hardware.

MrMagic says

For what it's worth, I worked for a start-up car company in the past (remember DeLorean), so I've seen these start-up quality issues before.

Either way, Elon "We're building cars in a giant tent" Musk will most definitely be a Case Study at Harvard Business School some time in the future. But for some perspective, Musk has already accomplished much more than DeLorean, whose DeLorean Motor Co. built only 9,080 cars before collapsing. That's about as many as Tesla sold monthly last year.

EBGuy says

Musk has already accomplished much more than DeLorean, whose DeLorean Motor Co. built only 9,080 cars before collapsing. That's about as many as Tesla sold monthly last year.

It was quality issues that cause DeLorean to collapse..... Musk is working on the piece too, just give him a little bit more time..... Tick Tock.

Strategist says

All companies eventually drop support on their products. That's when you really need a new computer.

I should say, my employer's MacBook. I would never buy a Crapple voluntarily.

I run Linux Mint on my main desktop. Unfortunately I still need a Win/Mac machine to run the shit I use on a daily basis.

But every year more and more shit is put online, until eventually I won't need to run any work apps on the machine directly.

What kind of warranty does Tesla offer? Usual 60k 5 years?

NuttBoxer says

Strategist says

Do you really need linux today?

I've used Ubuntu to run home media server, backup drive, and bittorrent service for a number of years. Plan to add an email server, but that project will take some time. I've extended the life of a shitty Dell I bought about 4 years back by running a stripped down Linux version, I think XLE.

Linux if for people who like doing things for themselves, and getting the most out of their hardware.

mell says

Yes. Linux and a barebones combustion engine with as little electronic gimmicks as possible.

So you don't really need it. You just want it. I am someone who got laughed at by my kids because I could not figure out where the "on" switch was on the iPhone.
I want something to work easily, perfectly, every single time. If there is a problem, I want Siri or something to just fix it without bothering me. Is that too much to ask for?

FortWayne says

What kind of warranty does Tesla offer? Usual 60k 5 years?

Shockingly, they have this info right on tesla.com:

Model S or Model X is protected by a 4 year or 50,000 miles (80,000 km) (whichever comes first) New Vehicle Limited Warranty and 8 year or unlimited miles Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty.


Model 3 is protected by a New Vehicle Limited Warranty for 4 years or 50,000 miles (80,000 km), whichever comes first. The Battery and Drive Unit in your vehicle are covered for a period of:

Vehicles with Standard Range Battery - 8 years or 100,000 miles (160,000 km), whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
Vehicles with Long Range Battery - 8 years or 120,000 miles (192,000 km), whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

DASKAA says

FortWayne says

What kind of warranty does Tesla offer? Usual 60k 5 years?

Shockingly, they have this info right on tesla.com:

Model S or Model X is protected by a 4 year or 50,000 miles (80,000 km) (whichever comes first) New Vehicle Limited Warranty and 8 year or unlimited miles Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty.


Model 3 is protected by a New Vehicle Limited Warranty for 4 years or 50,000 miles (80,000 km), whichever comes first. The Battery and Drive Unit in your vehicle are covered for a period of:

Vehicles with Standard Range Battery - 8 years or 100,000 miles (160,000 km), whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
Vehicles with Long Range Battery - 8 years or 120,000 miles (192,000 km), whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

@FortWayne,

In addition to the above, you can buy extended warranty for another 4 years at the end of the 4th year for $4,400. Basically, $1,100/year. This is for Model S. I don't know about Model 3. Based on other users on the Tesla Forum, they only have to replace tires and windshield wipers during the time of ownership up to 100,000 miles. For used Tesla, try to buy year 2014 and after. If you want to buy a used Tesla with autopilot, you have to buy cars after September 2014.

CBOEtrader says

Too much white bro, colored cars matter.

You think that's too much white? If you look closely at my car, it also has white interior. My partner also got white on white. It's freaking white. LOL! I wanted a metallic red, but my wife said no. She said red color is known as pussy getter. Hmm...... I had to settle for a white. Happy wife = Happy life.

Don't ask me why the siblings chose white. I had no say in it.

Strategist says

E-man says

I'm surprised you're still waiting for your Model 3 reservation. Is it because you only want to buy the basic $35k model?

Yes, I don't want to go above $40K. The Model S is unaffordable to me. If the Model 3 was not so economical, I would not have considered buying it.



E-man says

I'm the owner of a Model S and used my account to order two Tesla Model 3 for my wife's siblings. Here are the cars line up in the recent visit to my in-law parents. They're amazing cars. Once you've owned and driven one, you don't want to go back and drive a gas car. My biz partner owns a Model X, also a white car. The instant torque is addictive. Everyone is loving their Tesla. Now my wife wants one where I already bought her a new MDX last year. I told her to give me another year. Sigh.....

The electric cars ...

If you don't want to wait, there's always a Bolt... :)

E-man says

If you don't want to wait, there's always a Bolt... :)

A Bolt, Leaf or something is my choice for a second car. But a Tesla is the first choice.

E-man says

you can buy extended warranty for another 4 years at the end of the 4th year for $4,400.

If it's such an awesome car, why do you need to buy an extended warranty? It shouldn't need any repairs...

Strange??

DASKAA says

Model 3 is protected by a New Vehicle Limited Warranty for 4 years or 50,000 miles

Another strange one, my Honda (at HALF the cost) comes with a 5 year., 60,000 mile warranty on the powertrain, and it's just a Honda, not a wonderful Tesla...

Strange...

Strategist says

E-man says

If you don't want to wait, there's always a Bolt... :)

A Bolt, Leaf or something is my choice for a second car. But a Tesla is the first choice.

@Strategist

Great choice. Patience is a virtue. Although Tesla's powertrain and battery are only guaranteed for 8 years or 100,000 miles, the battery is still running at 500,000 miles with less than 20% battery degradation when tested. The powertrain is designed to last 1,000,000 miles. Basically, it takes over 80 years to drive 1,000,000 miles for the average American folks. Not sure if you would live that long to see your powertrain lasted 1,000,000 miles.

After $7,500 Fed tax credit, $2,500 CA tax rebate and $500 PG&E rebate, the Model 3 costs less than $50k out the door. It's costing me $15/mo on average for 1,000 miles/mo driving. With the gas saving for a few years, it will pay for the next $10k. Just go for the long range now. No need to wait. Make that jump.

MrMagic says

If it's such an awesome car, why do you need to buy an extended warranty? It shouldn't need any repairs...

What are you even talking about? You get sold extended warranties on any car you purchase. This isn't exclusive to Tesla. Oh, that's right, you buy the perfect car that has zero problems so warranties don't matter to you. Do you read what you type?

On average the extended warranty purchaser never uses the full value of the warranty. If you can afford to pay for the repairs the odds are that you should not buy a warranty if you cannot pay for repairs that you're better off purchasing the warranty
WookieMan says

You get sold extended warranties on any car you purchase.

And use 3rd party shops for all repairs never use the dealer

BlueSardine says

On average the extended warranty purchaser never uses the full value of the warranty. If you can afford to pay for the repairs the odds are that you should not buy a warranty if you cannot pay for repairs that you're better off purchasing the warranty
WookieMan says

You get sold extended warranties on any car you purchase.

Agreed. Wasn't saying you should get the warranty. But the other commenter was making a statement that seemed to imply that warranties are a needed thing with Tesla's. They're not. All car companies offer them as a profit driver if they make a decent car. People buy the warranty and they just made an extra $1-2k on that sale. It's as simple as that and doesn't speak to the quality of the car as was being implied.

WookieMan says

What are you even talking about? You get sold extended warranties on any car you purchase.

Wrong, I've never bought an extended warranty. If I buy a product that needs an extended warranty, then Duh..., what does that say about the quality of that product??

WookieMan says

Oh, that's right, you buy the perfect car that has zero problems so warranties don't matter to you.

No, I buy cars that have a PROVEN HISTORY of having low problems, not a NEW, flash in the pan car, because I'm a fanboy.

WookieMan says

But the other commenter was making a statement that seemed to imply that warranties are a needed thing with Tesla's. They're not.

How do you know?? It's too early..

WookieMan says

People buy the warranty and they just made an extra $1-2k on that sale.

Or, in the case with Tesla, $4K.

BlueSardine says

On average the extended warranty purchaser never uses the full value of the warranty. If you can afford to pay for the repairs the odds are that you should not buy a warranty if you cannot pay for repairs that you're better off purchasing the warranty

Yep, something Wookie just doesn't understand.

WookieMan says

It's as simple as that and doesn't speak to the quality of the car as was being implied.

The problem is, the Fanboys here keep RAVING on how wonderful the Tesla is, the greatest vehicle since the Model A, yet they plunk down an additional $4k for an extended warranty... how's that compute???

Doesn't that make you go Huh????

And that's on top of paying DOUBLE upfront for the car...

Yep... makes total economic sense..... NOT....

E-man says

Great choice. Patience is a virtue. Although Tesla's powertrain and battery are only guaranteed for 8 years or 100,000 miles, the battery is still running at 500,000 miles with less than 20% battery degradation when tested. The powertrain is designed to last 1,000,000 miles. Basically, it takes over 80 years to drive 1,000,000 miles for the average American folks. Not sure if you would live that long to see your powertrain lasted 1,000,000 miles.

After $7,500 Fed tax credit, $2,500 CA tax rebate and $500 PG&E rebate, the Model 3 costs less than $50k out the door. It's costing me $15/mo on average for 1,000 miles/mo driving. With the gas saving for a few years, it will pay for the next $10k. Just go for the long range now. No need to wait. Make that jump.

This is the type of logic I used 7 years ago with the 2011 Prius compared to the 2011 Honda Civic. The lowest advertised price foe the Prius was $21,500, $17,000 for the Civic.
I would save 8 cents per mile with the Prius, and have a much higher resale value. It has 160,000+ miles on it today (my son drives it)
Prius saved $13,0000 in gas so far. -----$13,000
One brake job instead of 6 -----$1,000
Other maintenance, maybe saved .........$1,000
Better resale value, probably .........$2,000
Even though the Prius cost $4,500 more than a wonderful Civic, I have already saved $17,000 more. Now tell me which car was cheaper?

Strategist says

E-man says

Great choice. Patience is a virtue. Although Tesla's powertrain and battery are only guaranteed for 8 years or 100,000 miles, the battery is still running at 500,000 miles with less than 20% battery degradation when tested. The powertrain is designed to last 1,000,000 miles. Basically, it takes over 80 years to drive 1,000,000 miles for the average American folks. Not sure if you would live that long to see your powertrain lasted 1,000,000 miles.

After $7,500 Fed tax credit, $2,500 CA tax rebate and $500 PG&E rebate, the Model 3 costs less than $50k out the door. It's costing me $15/mo on average for 1,000 miles/mo driving. With the gas saving for a few years, it will pay for the next $10k. Just go for the long range now. No need to wait. Make that jump.

This is the type of logic I used 7 years ago with the 2011 Prius compared to the 2011 Honda Civic. The lowest advertised ...

I'm not disagreeing that you came out ahead, but some of your numbers are questionable? I've got 150k on my Civic, and only had 2 brake jobs so far. As far as other maintenance, how do you automatically assume $1000 saved?

Strategist says

Even though the Prius cost $4,500 more than a wonderful Civic, I have already saved $17,000 more. Now tell me which car was cheaper?

You can use similar calculations with an electric car. Assume 100,000 miles and compare with any equivalent gas car.
Nissan Leaf MSRP $30,000
Dealer discount $5,000
Federal rebates $7,500
State Rebate $2,500
-------
Net cost $15,000

Gas savings 10cents per mile $10,000
e cars 3 cents per mile
Electricity rebates $500 per year $1,500
Assume 3 years only.

Repairs and maintenance saves $$3,000
-----------
Total minimum savings $14,500

It's practically free. Need I say more? You also get car pool stickers. Cheap or free parking in some places. Free electricity in some places.
Fucking no brainer.

theoakman says

I'm not disagreeing that you came out ahead, but some of your numbers are questionable? I've got 150k on my Civic, and only had 2 brake jobs so far. As far as other maintenance, how do you automatically assume $1000 saved?

Every Civic I had required a brake job around 25,000 miles. They may have better brakes now. I used $200 per brake job.
Oil changes on the Prius are every 10,000 miles. All other maintenance not as frequent as the Civic because the hybrids don't have as much toll on the engine.
The total maintenance I have spent on the 160,000 Prius miles was $1,000 including the brakes + oil changes. No repairs were done, because nothing ever went wrong.
Almost all my friends started buying Hybrids, and now electric cars, after I showed them the numbers. Every one of them are throughly happy with the hybrids/e-cars.

Autozone gives you lifetime brakes warranty on pads. You just have to bring them back before they fully wear out.

Buy brake pads once and never again. If you want to save money.

I have free livery service so my old Accord is collecting dust in the parking garage, as I never use it anymore.

Strategist says

So you don't really need it. You just want it.

I doubt Bill Gates is handing out Windows Server licenses for free, so I need it. If all you want to do is browse the internet, Linux flavors like Ubuntu are absolutely the way to go.

I have a 2014 Camry hybrid and I gotta say I like the car. It’s peppy as hell and gets decent mileage on my daily commute which includes a lot of stop and go. I fill up every other week about 14 gallons. Oil changes every 10,000 miles, or once a year for my driving habits. Brakes are supposed to be good for 100k.
Its a cheap car to operate, but with the XLE package and leather it’s luxury. I’m a fan!

Strategist says

Gas savings 10cents per mile $10,000
e cars 3 cents per mile
Electricity rebates $500 per year $1,500
Assume 3 years only.

Huh? Prius real world reporting at 42mpg. Civic real world reporting 32mpg. At 3.00 a gallon (going price anywhere near me) that's roughly 9.3 cents per mile vs 7.1 cents per mile. That works out to 500,000 miles to save $10,000.

Strategist says

The total maintenance I have spent on the 160,000 Prius miles was $1,000 including the brakes + oil changes. No repairs were done, because nothing ever went wrong.

160k with no struts, tie rod ends, steering box, wipers, wiper motor, cv joints, diff oil, radiator, light bulbs, exhaust, ignition wires, plugs, air filter, fuel filter, anti freeze changes, brake fluid change, fuel pump, electrical problems, water pump, rear brakes, door/interior problems, etc., etc., etc.?? That was 32 minor service intervals, 11 intermediate service intervals and 5 major service intervals. Without any problems found That's a fucking miracle car. I want to take you to the track next time I go to pick my horse.

bob2356 says

Without any problems found That's a fucking miracle car. I want to take you to the track next time I go to pick my horse.

That's all I have spent. Plus oil changes. I did not mention tires as that would be more or less the same for an average car.
Here's a horse tip.....Any horse named "Tesla"

Quigley says

I have a 2014 Camry hybrid and I gotta say I like the car.

Did you buy the extended warranty.