patrick.net

BlueSardine says

On average the extended warranty purchaser never uses the full value of the warranty. If you can afford to pay for the repairs the odds are that you should not buy a warranty if you cannot pay for repairs that you're better off purchasing the warranty
WookieMan says

You get sold extended warranties on any car you purchase.

Agreed. Wasn't saying you should get the warranty. But the other commenter was making a statement that seemed to imply that warranties are a needed thing with Tesla's. They're not. All car companies offer them as a profit driver if they make a decent car. People buy the warranty and they just made an extra $1-2k on that sale. It's as simple as that and doesn't speak to the quality of the car as was being implied.

WookieMan says

What are you even talking about? You get sold extended warranties on any car you purchase.

Wrong, I've never bought an extended warranty. If I buy a product that needs an extended warranty, then Duh..., what does that say about the quality of that product??

WookieMan says

Oh, that's right, you buy the perfect car that has zero problems so warranties don't matter to you.

No, I buy cars that have a PROVEN HISTORY of having low problems, not a NEW, flash in the pan car, because I'm a fanboy.

WookieMan says

But the other commenter was making a statement that seemed to imply that warranties are a needed thing with Tesla's. They're not.

How do you know?? It's too early..

WookieMan says

People buy the warranty and they just made an extra $1-2k on that sale.

Or, in the case with Tesla, $4K.

BlueSardine says

On average the extended warranty purchaser never uses the full value of the warranty. If you can afford to pay for the repairs the odds are that you should not buy a warranty if you cannot pay for repairs that you're better off purchasing the warranty

Yep, something Wookie just doesn't understand.

WookieMan says

It's as simple as that and doesn't speak to the quality of the car as was being implied.

The problem is, the Fanboys here keep RAVING on how wonderful the Tesla is, the greatest vehicle since the Model A, yet they plunk down an additional $4k for an extended warranty... how's that compute???

Doesn't that make you go Huh????

And that's on top of paying DOUBLE upfront for the car...

Yep... makes total economic sense..... NOT....

E-man says

Great choice. Patience is a virtue. Although Tesla's powertrain and battery are only guaranteed for 8 years or 100,000 miles, the battery is still running at 500,000 miles with less than 20% battery degradation when tested. The powertrain is designed to last 1,000,000 miles. Basically, it takes over 80 years to drive 1,000,000 miles for the average American folks. Not sure if you would live that long to see your powertrain lasted 1,000,000 miles.

After $7,500 Fed tax credit, $2,500 CA tax rebate and $500 PG&E rebate, the Model 3 costs less than $50k out the door. It's costing me $15/mo on average for 1,000 miles/mo driving. With the gas saving for a few years, it will pay for the next $10k. Just go for the long range now. No need to wait. Make that jump.

This is the type of logic I used 7 years ago with the 2011 Prius compared to the 2011 Honda Civic. The lowest advertised price foe the Prius was $21,500, $17,000 for the Civic.
I would save 8 cents per mile with the Prius, and have a much higher resale value. It has 160,000+ miles on it today (my son drives it)
Prius saved $13,0000 in gas so far. -----$13,000
One brake job instead of 6 -----$1,000
Other maintenance, maybe saved .........$1,000
Better resale value, probably .........$2,000
Even though the Prius cost $4,500 more than a wonderful Civic, I have already saved $17,000 more. Now tell me which car was cheaper?

Strategist says

E-man says

Great choice. Patience is a virtue. Although Tesla's powertrain and battery are only guaranteed for 8 years or 100,000 miles, the battery is still running at 500,000 miles with less than 20% battery degradation when tested. The powertrain is designed to last 1,000,000 miles. Basically, it takes over 80 years to drive 1,000,000 miles for the average American folks. Not sure if you would live that long to see your powertrain lasted 1,000,000 miles.

After $7,500 Fed tax credit, $2,500 CA tax rebate and $500 PG&E rebate, the Model 3 costs less than $50k out the door. It's costing me $15/mo on average for 1,000 miles/mo driving. With the gas saving for a few years, it will pay for the next $10k. Just go for the long range now. No need to wait. Make that jump.

This is the type of logic I used 7 years ago with the 2011 Prius compared to the 2011 Honda Civic. The lowest advertised ...

I'm not disagreeing that you came out ahead, but some of your numbers are questionable? I've got 150k on my Civic, and only had 2 brake jobs so far. As far as other maintenance, how do you automatically assume $1000 saved?

Strategist says

Even though the Prius cost $4,500 more than a wonderful Civic, I have already saved $17,000 more. Now tell me which car was cheaper?

You can use similar calculations with an electric car. Assume 100,000 miles and compare with any equivalent gas car.
Nissan Leaf MSRP $30,000
Dealer discount $5,000
Federal rebates $7,500
State Rebate $2,500
-------
Net cost $15,000

Gas savings 10cents per mile $10,000
e cars 3 cents per mile
Electricity rebates $500 per year $1,500
Assume 3 years only.

Repairs and maintenance saves $$3,000
-----------
Total minimum savings $14,500

It's practically free. Need I say more? You also get car pool stickers. Cheap or free parking in some places. Free electricity in some places.
Fucking no brainer.

theoakman says

I'm not disagreeing that you came out ahead, but some of your numbers are questionable? I've got 150k on my Civic, and only had 2 brake jobs so far. As far as other maintenance, how do you automatically assume $1000 saved?

Every Civic I had required a brake job around 25,000 miles. They may have better brakes now. I used $200 per brake job.
Oil changes on the Prius are every 10,000 miles. All other maintenance not as frequent as the Civic because the hybrids don't have as much toll on the engine.
The total maintenance I have spent on the 160,000 Prius miles was $1,000 including the brakes + oil changes. No repairs were done, because nothing ever went wrong.
Almost all my friends started buying Hybrids, and now electric cars, after I showed them the numbers. Every one of them are throughly happy with the hybrids/e-cars.

Autozone gives you lifetime brakes warranty on pads. You just have to bring them back before they fully wear out.

Buy brake pads once and never again. If you want to save money.

I have free livery service so my old Accord is collecting dust in the parking garage, as I never use it anymore.

Strategist says

So you don't really need it. You just want it.

I doubt Bill Gates is handing out Windows Server licenses for free, so I need it. If all you want to do is browse the internet, Linux flavors like Ubuntu are absolutely the way to go.

I have a 2014 Camry hybrid and I gotta say I like the car. It’s peppy as hell and gets decent mileage on my daily commute which includes a lot of stop and go. I fill up every other week about 14 gallons. Oil changes every 10,000 miles, or once a year for my driving habits. Brakes are supposed to be good for 100k.
Its a cheap car to operate, but with the XLE package and leather it’s luxury. I’m a fan!

Strategist says

Gas savings 10cents per mile $10,000
e cars 3 cents per mile
Electricity rebates $500 per year $1,500
Assume 3 years only.

Huh? Prius real world reporting at 42mpg. Civic real world reporting 32mpg. At 3.00 a gallon (going price anywhere near me) that's roughly 9.3 cents per mile vs 7.1 cents per mile. That works out to 500,000 miles to save $10,000.

Strategist says

The total maintenance I have spent on the 160,000 Prius miles was $1,000 including the brakes + oil changes. No repairs were done, because nothing ever went wrong.

160k with no struts, tie rod ends, steering box, wipers, wiper motor, cv joints, diff oil, radiator, light bulbs, exhaust, ignition wires, plugs, air filter, fuel filter, anti freeze changes, brake fluid change, fuel pump, electrical problems, water pump, rear brakes, door/interior problems, etc., etc., etc.?? That was 32 minor service intervals, 11 intermediate service intervals and 5 major service intervals. Without any problems found That's a fucking miracle car. I want to take you to the track next time I go to pick my horse.

bob2356 says

Without any problems found That's a fucking miracle car. I want to take you to the track next time I go to pick my horse.

That's all I have spent. Plus oil changes. I did not mention tires as that would be more or less the same for an average car.
Here's a horse tip.....Any horse named "Tesla"

Quigley says

I have a 2014 Camry hybrid and I gotta say I like the car.

Did you buy the extended warranty.

I’d never buy it.
Those things are 99% profit margin for seller. You are literally better taking chances to be part of 99% than 1%

MrMagic says

Quigley says

I have a 2014 Camry hybrid and I gotta say I like the car.

Did you buy the extended warranty.

Strategist says

bob2356 says

Without any problems found That's a fucking miracle car. I want to take you to the track next time I go to pick my horse.

That's all I have spent. Plus oil changes.

Like I said, the miracle car. Maybe should see if Toryota wants this one back to see what they did to make such a miracle car. They would love to be able to advertise $125 a year in maintenance for 25,000 miles. I've been a car guy for 40 years and have never seen anything close to that. Toyota says prius should be $300 a year for 12,000 miles. Amazing to have 1/3 the costs for double the miles year after year. .

bob2356 says

I've been a car guy for 40 years and have never seen anything close to that.

Driving a Mustang sideways at 85mph can cause higher maintenance costs. Also, cars needed more maintenance 40 years ago.

My Civic is 6 years old with 150k miles on it. Aside from the standard tires, brakes, and oil changes, I've only had a bearing go bad and the AC bit the dust.

Uh-oh... Fire under the Big Top!
https://twitter.com/rajmathai/status/1032796272476868609
EDIT: looks like that is a small tent, not the Model 3 assembly line.

bob2356 says

I've been a car guy for 40 years and have never seen anything close to that.

16 year old Subaru WRX with 160k miles here. I had the AC repaired under warranty, years ago. Other than that, one O2 sensor ($100), 2 radiators ($200 apiece).. and then general maintenance (brakes, tires, oil, one new battery). I doubt I've spent more than $2500 keeping it up since purchase, about $150/year.

Of course, the gas mileage on it sucks, but it's a hoot to drive.

EBGuy says

Uh-oh... Fire under the Big Top!
https://twitter.com/rajmathai/status/1032796272476868609
EDIT: looks like that is a small tent, not the Model 3 assembly line.

Comments from that link:

Did any one see Elon, with a matchbook, leaving that area??
------------
Those damn batteries.
-------------
I thought that fire wasn't scheduled till next week, says Musk

Pretty amazing all these 160k alternators, tie rod ends, water pumps. struts ps pumps, fuel pumps, belts, tranny fluid, brake fluid, etc., etc.. Items that almost all have a life of 80-120k. Repairpal quotes late model WRX at $600 a year honda civic 2012 at $395, prius 2011 at $425. That's at 10k per year driving and independent service not dealer. I can't maintain my 80k/70k cars for $150 a year each and I do the work myself.

Make sure to keep those amazing repair free cars as long as possible.

WookieMan says

MrMagic says

If it's such an awesome car, why do you need to buy an extended warranty? It shouldn't need any repairs...

What are you even talking about? You get sold extended warranties on any car you purchase. This isn't exclusive to Tesla. Oh, that's right, you buy the perfect car that has zero problems so warranties don't matter to you. Do you read what you type?

@WookieMan,

Thanks for interjecting some common sense. It's best not to feed the trolls.

EBGuy says

Uh-oh... Fire under the Big Top!
https://twitter.com/rajmathai/status/1032796272476868609
EDIT: looks like that is a small tent, not the Model 3 assembly line.

Fake news. The fire happened just outside of Tesla factory. Fortunately, it has been contained.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fire-near-tesla-factory-in-fremont-california-2018-8

Strategist says

E-man says

Great choice. Patience is a virtue. Although Tesla's powertrain and battery are only guaranteed for 8 years or 100,000 miles, the battery is still running at 500,000 miles with less than 20% battery degradation when tested. The powertrain is designed to last 1,000,000 miles. Basically, it takes over 80 years to drive 1,000,000 miles for the average American folks. Not sure if you would live that long to see your powertrain lasted 1,000,000 miles.

After $7,500 Fed tax credit, $2,500 CA tax rebate and $500 PG&E rebate, the Model 3 costs less than $50k out the door. It's costing me $15/mo on average for 1,000 miles/mo driving. With the gas saving for a few years, it will pay for the next $10k. Just go for the long range now. No need to wait. Make that jump.

This is the type of logic I used 7 years ago with the 2011 Prius compared to the 2011 Honda Civic. The lowest advertised ...

What's stopping you from using the same logic @Strategist? ;)

E-man says

Thanks for interjecting some common sense. It's best not to feed the trolls.

Yes, because the fanboys just can't handle the truth.

Tesla Model 3 finish is ‘below average,’ analyst says .

Analysts at UBS found more to fault with Tesla Inc.’s Model 3, saying the electric sedan they scrutinized “performed poorly” in terms of finishing quality, sporting missing bolts and uneven welding.

This week’s note focused on the car’s finishing versus other mass-market electric vehicles, and said it “stumbles” in comparison with General Motors Co. Chevy Bolt and BMW’s i3. The analysts said they found “significant fit & finish issues” with the Model 3 that would be expensive to fix.

“Our teardown experts noted numerous Model 3 quality issues including inconsistent gaps (and) flushness throughout the car, missing bolts, loose tolerances, and uneven (and) misaligned spot welds,” the analysts said in the note.

The UBS analysts have based their assumptions on a teardown of a higher-end Model 3, costing $49,000, which included a pricier battery option and a higher-end trim.

“The car scored ‘below average’ on the fit & finish quality audit,” and the team also found it “borderline acceptable” in terms of noise.

The conclusion was that gaps and noise problems “are very difficult (and) time consuming fixes,” they said. While cosmetic fixes can hide some flaws, “truly fixing” them requires tracing the process back and likely replacing stamping molds, they said.

The last leg of UBS’ teardown also unveiled service concerns, the analysts said.

Being an electric vehicle, the Model 3 in “inherently more difficult to service,” but in its specific case the battery pack, glued and screwed together and then secured to the car’s floor with 48 bolts, looks difficult to access, they said.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-model-3-finish-is-below-average-analyst-says-2018-08-23

But, but, but... that acceleration...

MrMagic says

Yes, because the fanboys just can't handle the truth.

Tesla Model 3 finish is ‘below average,’ analyst says

Your reading comprehension is abysmal. First, I have an entire comment stating that I would NOT buy an extended warranty, yet you continually put words in my mouth that said I would or am suggesting people should. Dishonest much. I also said the warranties for ALL car manufacturers are just a profit center 9 out of 10 times basically. They have the data on what will fail, at what mileage and offer the warranties until about the time shit starts breaking. This is common sense and didn't realize I'd have to explain this. Twice now.

I do hope you aren't referencing me in your comment as a fanboy. Again, reading words is a skill. I've said I dislike Musk. I have said I wouldn't buy a Tesla for the foreseeable future as the tech needs to get better as far as the mileage and charge times. By that time the major automakers will have competing models for sure. I'd probably go for a Toyota offering as I can get a new one at dealer prices and their gassers are extremely reliable. Plus I maybe drive 7k miles per year and I ain't dropping $30-40k on a new car. Not worth it, I'm frugal so I can retire by 45ish.

Listen, I have zero problem with challenging a car maker. But when the carmaker is disrupting two of the largest industries in the WORLD (oil & auto), don't always believe what you read. The physical interaction I've had with the car (driving it) and anecdotal info from friends and family that actually own them has all been very positive. I suppose you think the media NEVER cherry picks info, data and sources to promote a narrative, right? You seem like a Trump supporter, so I think I know the answer. I'm fine with Trump, so that's not a dig either.

NuttBoxer says

You may think I'm exaggerating, but what else do you call a company that is largely supported by government programs, and requires you to pay up front for a car you may never get?

The "new American capitalist" success story?

The car that was revolutionary was unfortunately not popular and not so successful. This was the Honda Civic running on natural gas (CNG)

Since the electricity in the Bay Area is made burning natural gas in Duke Power Moss Landing, Tesla's factory and Teslas in the bay area are running on natural gas.

It's too bad but I guess now we will be waiting for fuel cell cars.

clambo says

Since the electricity in the Bay Area is made burning natural gas in Duke Power Moss Landing, Tesla's factory and Teslas in the bay area are running on natural gas.

The Civic idea wasn't bad. But I'd prefer to have controlled explosions going on at a power plant and not on the road. And yes, I understand gas cars can explode too. But if everyone switched to electric cars, I'd bet the fatality rate in auto accidents would drop a good 10% due to removing the explosive material. Maybe more. I actually wonder if there's a study out there examining what the final cause of death was in a car accident. If fire was any significant percentage of the total, that should be reason enough to try and switch to EV's.

Also, I know natural gas would be more of a burst type explosion and not a long burning type event. So technically safer then gas. But depending on the crash and location of people, I'm sure it can still kill the fuck out of someone though.

WookieMan says

I'd bet the fatality rate in auto accidents would drop a good 10% due to removing the explosive material. Maybe more. I actually wonder if there's a study out there examining what the final cause of death was in a car accident. If fire was any significant percentage of the total, that should be reason enough to try and switch to EV's.

The number is very small. https://saferide4kids.com/blog/car-fires-vehicle-submersion/

Less than one-half of 1% of all car accidents resulting in injury involve being submersed in water or engulfed in flame.

There are about 5.5 million reported crashes per year (up to 10 million more go unreported). If there are 174,000 (2015 number) car fires from which only 3% are caused by crashes; that means roughly 5,220 crashes end in car fires or 0.0949% of all car crashes result in fire.

WookieMan says

I do hope you aren't referencing me in your comment as a fanboy. Again, reading words is a skill.

Exactly.... reading words is a skill, one that you are surely missing. Now, before you go off half-cocked again, go check to see who I was actually quoting and responding to..

Reading comprehension... try it, you'll like it.

WookieMan says

But if everyone switched to electric cars, I'd bet the fatality rate in auto accidents would drop a good 10% due to removing the explosive material.

Wow...

There are no words....

clambo says

The car that was revolutionary was unfortunately not popular and not so successful. This was the Honda Civic running on natural gas (CNG)

The range was laughable and the filling statios were few and far between.

MrMagic says

WookieMan says

But if everyone switched to electric cars, I'd bet the fatality rate in auto accidents would drop a good 10% due to removing the explosive material.

Wow...

There are no words....

Wow, there are no links... As usual....

I don't agree with Bob all the time, but he provided a link and kept the sassy, girly, bitchiness out of it. I guess some boomers are better then others. (bob, I assume you're a boomer. My apologies if you aren't. And also my apologies if you are. As we can see here)

bob2356 says

The number is very small. https://saferide4kids.com/blog/car-fires-vehicle-submersion/

bob2356 says

The number is very small. https://saferide4kids.com/blog/car-fires-vehicle-submersion/

Thanks for linking that. Appreciate it. I'm being serious.

I know I could have looked it up myself, but was just making an opinion and basically throwing out a question in a quick comment. I appreciate adults and humans that can interact with each other. There's still hope for us.

WookieMan says

but was just making an opinion

and there lies the BIG problem..

WookieMan says

Wow, there are no links... As usual....

That's because Bob provided them.. do I need to repeat them?

WookieMan says

I know I could have looked it up myself,

Guess what, there's this thing called Google.... amazing stuff... you should try it sometime.

WookieMan says

There's still hope for us.

You know what they say about "opinions", right?

WookieMan says

I guess some boomers are better then others.

That's correct, it's amazing what people can learn from other people who have been on the planet TWICE as long as they've been.

MrMagic says

Guess what, there's this thing called Google.... amazing stuff... you should try it sometime.

Unfortunately, like many here and throughout the world, I don't believe EVERYTHING I read. Bob gave a link, I checked it out. There could be 100 different studies that proved what he linked was wrong. If I found an article that countered Bob's, I have no intention of getting in a pissing match about it. I simply thanked him and I presume Bob and my interaction is complete on this thread. This is how a discussion should go. Not devolve into TRYING to be right about everything that many humans get caught up in.

Read my profile here. You might be able to learn a lesson from it.....

Out-Of-Warranty Tesla Owners Left With No Choice But To Fix Their Own Cars.

Due to a lack of reputable mechanics, lack of widespread service centers and aftermarket parts, some out of warranty Tesla owners are left with no choice but to try and fix their cars themselves. Such was the case of Model S owner Greg Furstenwerth, a self described "Tesla fan". CNBC detailedhis journey through repairing his own out of warranty Tesla when the company "treated him like [he] didn't own a Tesla" after his warranty ran out.

"Those were the golden years", according to Furstenwerth. While the Model S was under warranty, he shared his experience in dealing with Tesla service, which was positive. The interactions with the company were plentiful.

But when the warranty ran out, so did the personal attention: "...as soon as I exceeded my warranty, the interactions all went away. I was treated like I didn't really own a Tesla," he told CNBC.

This is apparently because Tesla doesn’t make spare parts, diagnostic tools or repair manuals readily available to people trying to perform service on their cars. And due to the modest size of the car fleet, there is also a surprisingly small aftermarket for Tesla parts.

So Furstenwerth was forced to take it upon himself to figure out how to fix his car on his own.

We can imagine that the reaction of other Tesla owners who aren't such vehement fans, will be far less supportive.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-09-02/out-warranty-tesla-owners-left-no-choice-fix-their-own-cars

Yeah.... but that acceleration!!!!!

I keep hearing about the Ponzi scheme but then I take a drive on the 101 on the Peninsula and it’s quickly clear that Tesla seems to be he most common car on the road. And I haven’t encountered an owner that isn’t head over heels for their purchase. I don’t know what to believe anymore.

BayArea says

And I haven’t encountered an owner that isn’t head over heels for their purchase. I don’t know what to believe anymore.

You can believe a "Fool and his money, are soon parted".