patrick.net

Chiromancer says

Well judging from the responses on this thread Trump supporters will follow Donald right into another mid eastern war. Dont know if it will come to that but the odds just went up significantly. More blood and treasure. For what?

Trump has proven that he wants to withdraw from the Middle East, not start another war. That said, he still has a duty to defend Americans and American interests in the region. This was the way he did that, also sending a message to the world that we can take your silly ass out wherever you are! And threats will be answered with disproportionate violence and pacification. It was a power move, and you’re free to critique it. But just remember that you don’t have all the information available to the President. Perhaps this move was the best one possible! One thing is crystal clear: Democrats don’t have a record of peace in the Middle East. They’ve done no better and many times they’ve done much worse. Give the CiC a chance, eh? He’s playing professional ball here, while you’re in foal league.

Shaman says

Trump has proven that he wants to withdraw from the Middle East, not start another war.

Odd way of withdrawing by upping the stakes and adding troops. Trump never has had or articulated a coherent strategy to deal with Iran

Shaman says

But just remember that you don’t have all the information available to the President

Yes, but does he read his daily brief, does he have any understanding of the region? Or interest in uderstanding? Unfortunately not. Everyone knows he goes by his gut ignoring his advisors.
Plus nothing and I mean nothing coming from him or the Trump administration can be believed without verification. You know, alternate facts. I sincerely hope this de-escalates. Trump does not have the support or trust of the country to take this much further.

CBOEtrader says

Orange man bad so this must be bad.

Dishonest or just stupid ?

I don't know which one it is. But I'll assume you're intentionally being dishonest in your interpretation of what I said, becasue I know you people respect dishonesty. And also, nuance never was your thing.

Hey, on the bright side, you totally avoid weighing in entirely on my issue (probably not even considering it for a single second), which is being concerned about the degree to which Trump factors politics in to this and future war decisions.

No surprise on my end. Trolling, or intellectually lazy, it all boils down to more or less the same in terms of what it reflects.

marcus says

Dishonest or just stupid ?

I believe you can be (and are) both.

marcus says

CBOEtrader says

Orange man bad so this must be bad.

Dishonest or just stupid ?

Cant discuss so you adhom. Typical. Let's try again. You make a point to say you dont disagree with trumps action BUT

CBOEtrader says

marcus says

What I don't like is that it's Trump behind it becasue everything that intelligent objective observers know about Trump suggests that the politics of it likely enters his calculus more than it should. And that's very scary.

Orange man bad so this must be bad.

Brainwashing works.

How is this not orange man bad therefore this is bad?

marcus says

Hey, on the bright side, you totally avoid weighing in entirely on my issue (probably not even considering it for a single second), which is being concerned about the degree to which Trump factors politics in to this and future war decisions.

I will indeed totally avoid factless speculation. Correct.

Booger says

That's my basic reaction.

Still, I'm afraid our foreign policy is being dictated by Saudi Arabia.

Scott Adams has an interesting angle on all of this. He might have been an impediment to peace and the Mullahs and Supreme Leader wanted him taken out:

www.youtube.com/embed/Th2rBu6OG_Q

CBOEtrader says

How is this not orange man bad therefore this is bad?

I would ask you to see if you can not read and comprehend an entire sentence ?

"What I don't like is that it's Trump behind it, becasue everything that intelligent objective observers know about Trump suggests that the politics of it likely enters his calculus more than it should. And that's very scary. "

You might argue that even if politics did enter in to his rationale, it doesn't mean that it was strategically a mistake. Guess what ? I agree.

But yes even Trump himself was repeatedly making the point back in 2011 and 2012 that it's terrible and risky and just bad all around if a President makes war decisions based on a desire to be reelected.

So I stand by my fear, my concern, whatever you want to call it, that becasue of Trumps epic self contentedness and narcissism, and also his own projection onto Obama's motives, that Trump is at risk of making terrible war related decisions becasue of ego, thirst for power and approval/popularity. Not that these things alone would move him, but becasue they would factor in more than what is desirable for such decisions.

A separate point from the one you don't want to understand is this.

Did the so called doomsday clock just move closer to midnight ? Or further away. If it moved closer, I don't like to see that happening when Trump is at the helm.

And that last point which I was not making before, is closer to Orange man bad therefore this is bad.

But still since I still don't know whether this was strategically wrong, and it probably is something that other strategists brought to Trump, it might be good (strategically) ., That is something I said repeatedly.

Just added ice cream to the grocery list for this weekend!

Every time I see a Booger meme, I think to myself. Man that's a great meme, let me post it over at Patrick.net. Then my next thought is "Doh!"

marcus says

Trump is at risk of making terrible war related decisions becasue of ego, thirst for power and approval/popularity.

Has he made terrible decisions so far? He has expanded drone strikes which noone talks about but should. This is probably bad. He also launched the MOAB based on questionable Syrian intelligence. Also not good. Otoh, he hasnt started any wars and seems to be ending the existing ones. I'd give him a B-, maybe C+ in how hes handled the military. W Bush and Obama both failed.

Seems like hes doing fine, but his report card will change depending on how this conflict plays out. It would help if the media would report on important topics like drone strike numbers and costs associated with it rather than on Tranny rights for minors.

Possibly the best meme on this subject yet:

marcus says

CBOEtrader says

How is this not orange man bad therefore this is bad?

I would ask you to see if you can not read and comprehend an entire sentence ?

"What I don't like is that it's Trump behind it, becasue everything that intelligent objective observers know about Trump suggests that the politics of it likely enters his calculus more than it should. And that's very scary. "

You might argue that even if politics did enter in to his rationale, it doesn't mean that it was strategically a mistake. Guess what ? I agree.

But yes even Trump himself was repeatedly making the point back in 2011 and 2012 that it's terrible and risky and just bad all around if a President makes war decisions based on a desire to be reelected.

So I stand by my fear, my concern, whatever you want to call it, that becasue of Trumps epic self contentedness and narci...

just_dregalicious says

Scott Adams has an interesting angle on all of this. He might have been an impediment to peace and the Mullahs and Supreme Leader wanted him taken out:

Could be. By all counts, he was hated and feared inside Iraq, but so powerful, the government was intimidated. No matter what the public posture, Iran may be glad he is gone.
Kinna like when Stalin finally punted.

For conspiracy fodder, it almost looks like it could have been a joint USA/Iran caper: "We can't have negotiations until this guy is gone, and we can't do anything inside Iran to do it because he is one unholy and invincible motherfucker. We'll get him out of the country, then we will tell you where X marks the spot. Of course, we will have to protest the deed vigorously."

marcus says

CBOEtrader says

How is this not orange man bad therefore this is bad?

I would ask you to see if you can not read and comprehend an entire sentence ?

"What I don't like is that it's Trump behind it, becasue everything that intelligent objective observers know about Trump suggests that the politics of it likely enters his calculus more than it should. And that's very scary. "

You might argue that even if politics did enter in to his rationale, it doesn't mean that it was strategically a mistake. Guess what ? I agree.

But yes even Trump himself was repeatedly making the point back in 2011 and 2012 that it's terrible and risky and just bad all around if a President makes war decisions based on a desire to be reelected.

So I stand by my fear, my concern, whatever you want to call it, that becasue of Trumps epic self contentedness and narci...

Trumps base is distinctly anti-war. Remember how his supporters were pissed while the MSM celebrated his MOAB airstrike?

A politician SHOULD consider the will of the people (politics) when considering military action. This one was acceptable to his supporters BECAUSE it seems like the right decision. (I agree w marcus that we arent in a spot to judge military decisions.)

If this escalates into a new war his supporters will not ne happy.

Remember when we pulled out of the Turkish-Syrian border area? And we were told Major Instability or even WW3 was a possibility unless we kept ground troops there?

Now we're told retaliating against the Iran-backed Embassy Attack by assassinating a long time Iranian General who specializes in assassination and destabilization will lead to Major Instability.

I get whiplash from how fast the Left changes it's stance depending on what Trump does.

CBOEtrader says

If this escalates into a new war his supporters will not ne happy.

True. I wouldn't call myself a blind supporter of Trump, but I think he's generally been a very good president.

And I will not be happy if this becomes a new war, mostly because it's what those Saudi fucks wanted all along.

What would really make me happy is if Iran obliterated Saudi Arabia, the source of the 9/11 hijackers and the source of almost all terrorism in the world.

personal

Patrick says

And I will not be happy if this becomes a new war, mostly because it's what those Saudi fucks wanted all along.

I'd put killing being wrong and costing too much money ahead of doing what the Saudis want, but I hear you

CBOEtrader says

Patrick says

And I will not be happy if this becomes a new war, mostly because it's what those Saudi fucks wanted all along.

I'd put killing being wrong and costing too much money ahead of doing what the Saudis want, but I hear you

Why only SA this and that, like Israel didn't want this even more.