patrick.net

NuttBoxer says

seems people will sacrifice everything for their party. Even personal morals.

They will even sacrifice their children, who have a near-zero risk of death from the virus, by injecting them with the new Thalidomide and dramatically increasing their risk of death.

Illinois Congressman Sean Casten's daughter was most likely killed in this way.

DeficitHawk says

see the table in comment 378. thats the UK data we were discussing.

Well there’s that warning you mention which completely invalidates that table as the “unassailable source” that Patrick is looking for, which I reproduce in full here from page 3 in the report (emphasis in the original):

These [sic] raw data should not be used to estimate vaccine effectiveness as the data does [sic] not take
into account inherent biases present such as differences in risk, behaviour and testing in the
vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.

Besides that, these charts do not measure overall sickness as after taking the vaccines. They only look at what happens after a COVID-19 diagnosis. They do not look at vaccine side effects, no matter how serious. Probably the best attempt at a prospective study that could answer these questions (the one that led to the Pfizer vaccine’s approval) actually showed that, if anything, vaccination leads to more death! That and more criticism of that study here:

https://www.canadiancovidcarealliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/The-COVID-19-Inoculations-More-Harm-Than-Good-REV-Dec-16-2021.pdf

https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/11/wots-in-the-shots/

According to the latest data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics, excess mortality was over 17 per cent in July. It is similarly elevated in other highly vaccinated populations.

In Germany, excess mortality in people over 60 increased by 174 per cent between 20 September 2021, when 85 per cent of people over 60 were fully vaccinated, and October 2022.

In the UK, there have been more excess deaths in the last three months than at any time during the pandemic or indeed since 2010. In the most recent week, excess mortality in England was 16 per cent.

In the US, excess mortality in people aged 25 to 44, and in those aged 75 to 84, is 18 per cent, and it is 15 per cent in those aged 65 to 74.

The situation is all the more alarming because there should be fewer deaths now, since so many people died earlier in the pandemic. There has also been a dramatic rise in people with disabilities.

As for Covid, in Australia, vaccine efficacy appears to be negative, judging by the statistics in NSW which are far from perfect but the best in Australia.

Not that this is a scientific paper, but The Spectator is prestigious at least, not a crackpot site.

DeficitHawk says

When there is a threat, I guess I do think peace through strength is the path.

DeficitHawk says

Yup, I support helping Ukraine push Russia back to the border.

Pretty much what I assumed. In this respect, you'd get along quite well with my Christian, Republican ticket voting parents.

The hippies are dead, conquered by the very war hawks they once protested.

NuttBoxer says

The hippies are dead, conquered by the very war hawks they once protested.

NuttBoxer, Im pretty much a lone voice on this thread with an outlook different from the rest of the crowd. I gather you are too.

Even if we dont agree, wanna jump in here and stir the pot with me?

DeficitHawk says

Maybe some places it was 'take the jab or you cant work here'.

One of the poster here was fired for refusing to tell his employer his private medical information.

Thankfully there were not storm troopers forcably jabbing most people, but there were reports of people in nursing homes and other care facilities as well as patients under anesthesia for surgery who were given injections of Pfizer or Moderna against their will/without consent. In places around the world it became common place to ask for your jab papers and people who falsified jabs to work or shop were severely punished. The point is that it is a slippery slope once you begin to mandate. We were only about one step away from either stormtroopers, prison camps or denial of care for those who refuse the jabs. It is reason for concern. Which is why so many oppose the mandate and draw the line at any mandates.

DeficitHawk says

Even if we dont agree, wanna jump in here and stir the pot with me?

NuttBoxer doesn't deny the truth of election fraud, vaccine safety and efficacy, and the facts behind the Ukrainian war.

Do you also believe that carbon dioxide is a pollutant that is causing runaway heating of the earth?

Things that dems believe:
Elections are safe and fair (when they win).
Trump is a racist that colluded with Putin.
Global warming is an existential threat.
The vax is safe and effective.
Whites have privilege just because of their skin color.
America is a democracy.

PeopleUnited says

DeficitHawk says

Maybe some places it was 'take the jab or you cant work here'.

One of the poster here was fired for refusing to tell his employer his private medical information.

Thankfully there were not storm troopers forcably jabbing most people, but there were reports of people in nursing homes and other care facilities as well as patients under anesthesia for surgery who were given injections of Pfizer or Moderna against their will/without consent. In places around the world it became common place to ask for your jab papers and people who falsified jabs to work or shop were severely punished. The point is that it is a slippery slope once you begin to mandate. We were only about one step away from either stormtroopers, prison camps or denial of care for those who refuse the jabs. It is reason for concern. Which is why so many oppose the mandate and draw the line at...

One thing that is truly, fanatically evil about the mandates is that organ transplant candidates are being dropped from the transplant lists unless they are jabbed. This, despite the fact that there has been a big increase in organ rejections by jabbed recipients. Corneal transplants, for example, are hardly ever rejected, but among the jabbed, rejection rates are orders of magnitude (100X, 1000X) higher than observed before 2021.

Onvacation says

Things that dems believe:
Elections are safe and fair (when they win).
Trump is a racist that colluded with Putin.
Global warming is an existential threat.
The vax is safe and effective.
Whites have privilege just because of their skin color.
America is a democracy.

I can’t believe there are still vaxx commercials. While not scientific I know a lot of older people who got the jab that are having serious health issues.

DeficitHawk says

PeopleUnited says

but to get certain facts you must go outside the mainstream

Why do you think I come here? Hint: Its not for the friendly encouragement from richwicks.

I think I've literally talked to you twice.

I don't think you're authentic. I could be wrong though, Patrick is mostly talking with you. I don't think you're authentic because you haven't discussed policy in anything you've written that I've seen, but I also am not reading too closely.

DeficitHawk says

Even if we dont agree, wanna jump in here and stir the pot with me?

Ohh, I'm definitely a pot-stirrer, ask anyone here.

Onvacation says

NuttBoxer doesn't deny the truth of election fraud, vaccine safety and efficacy, and the facts behind the Ukrainian war.

I don't buy someone who can't stay awake on live TV getting more votes than Obama. I mean was Reagan ever this bad? Biden is a post-turtle, that is by far the best adjective I've heard to describe him. But Trump was, and is no more of a savior than Musk is. Sad that in these times heroes are so lacking we try to invent them...

I practice preventative health, so do my wife and kids. We have seen too much confirmation in our lives, and the lives of friends and family who practice the treatment method to ever go back. Safe prevention means avoiding lab produced solutions unless absolutely necessary. That's why Ivermectin and Hodroxychloroquine are the only medications I've take the past 10 years. And those sparingly as needed, which has been one time.

And I know that when everyone lines up behind a war, there is heavy propaganda at work, as wars are almost never the answer. And racism is always wrong. I called it out when I saw it happening with Muslims and Middle Easterner's after 9/11, and I've called it out again with Russians being discriminated against.

Democrats are NOT to blame for the world's woes, neither are Republicans. Central banks and those behind them are the real culprits. But there is a shared blame on both parties for the current state of this country, as they have been the willing slaves of the bankers, and never given a shit about anyone besides themselves. People like Ron Paul are the lonely exceptions to this rule.

But good news. God created a beautiful world, and He loves all of you. And as being's made in His image, we have the power to change all of this for the better. Love your neighbors, pray for your enemies. Stand up for what is right, protect those who can't protect themselves. Not through voting or going online, but in real life. Live for the world you want to see, and together, with God's help, we will make it a reality.

There is waaaaaaaaaaaay too much emphasis on the death rate.

There were millions and millions of hospitalizations.

It's also estimated that there is 2-4 million people out of the labor market because of "Long Covid".

The death rate is comparable to measles. Sounds like the complications are about the same too.

Misc says

It's also estimated that there is 2-4 million people out of the labor market because of "Long Covid".

That's another name for vax injury.

Onvacation says

Things that dems believe:
Elections are safe and fair (when they win).
Trump is a racist that colluded with Putin.
Global warming is an existential threat.
The vax is safe and effective.
Whites have privilege just because of their skin color.
America is a democracy.

Things that dems believe:
Elections are safe and fair (when they win). -- Yup, and also when the other guys win. (2022 congress, 2000 Bush)

Trump is a racist that colluded with Putin. -- Dont think Trump is a racist, nor are his policies racist. But I DO think there are racists in the country and Trump wanted their votes so he didnt criticize them much.

Global warming is an existential threat. -- More like an unfortunate reality that we will have to adapt to.. but yes, real.

The vax is safe and effective. -- Yup, per the double blind studies, though I acknowledge the tracking doesnt go out too many years so long term side effects havent been proven except by projection.

Whites have privilege just because of their skin color. -- Nope, not privilege due to skin color. But I DO think that wealth is (rich vs poor) is strongly tied to the fortunes of the family you were born into and merit-based social mobility is not as strong as I wish it was.

America is a democracy. -- Well a republic/representative democracy

richwicks says

I don't think you're authentic because you haven't discussed policy in anything you've written that I've seen,

Well, Im not sure what you mean by authentic.. Im not a bot. I am not employed by Pfizer. Ive been responding to the topics posed to me, which were Trump, Covid and Vaccines. If you are inviting me to propose some nugget of policy.... OK.. how about immigration? I favor much more legal immigration, and not just white collar immigrants. Full economic spectrum of immigrants. From all of the continents. I favor much LESS illegal immigration, for several reasons... one is security which I bet is shared with this crowd... but another is that I morally dont like that we allow a large population of '2nd class' people who we let stay but dont allow to be citizens. I think its economic exploitation and both parties allow it to go on for their own reasons. Immigration should be wider spread, legal, and lead to citizenship.

NuttBoxer says

But good news. God created a beautiful world, and He loves all of you. And as being's made in His image, we have the power to change all of this for the better. Love your neighbors, pray for your enemies. Stand up for what is right, protect those who can't protect themselves. Not through voting or going online, but in real life. Live for the world you want to see, and together, with God's help, we will make it a reality.

This is probably the statement on this thread that I agree with most strongly so far... despite that I am an atheist.

Being an atheist doesn't mean giving up hope ;)

DeficitHawk says

Things that dems believe:
Elections are safe and fair (when they win). -- Yup, and also when the other guys win.

Not at all when Trump won. The election denial from Democrats was very loud and persistent.

DeficitHawk says

The vax is safe and effective. -- Yup, per the double blind studies, though I acknowledge the tracking doesnt go out too many years so long term side effects havent been proven except by projection.

I'm pretty certain that Pfizer's and the FDA's studies were exceptionally weak (8 mice for the last one?) and the outcome was pre-determined so that the participating scientists were not about to risk their careers by stating anything that would interfere with profits. You can smell their fear in most papers about the vaxx, where very unscientific denials of any possible danger are sprinkled about. Nothing like this has ever happened before in my memory.

I probably agree with you on most other things through.

DeficitHawk says

I morally dont like that we allow a large population of '2nd class' people who we let stay but dont allow to be citizens. I think its economic exploitation and both parties allow it to go on for their own reasons.

Boom! That is the crux of the matter. Big business loves having an underclass that always lives under the threat of deportation. Dems and Republicans coordinate here, playing good cop/bad cop.

Right, both sides of the Uniparty get donations from corporate farms, meat packing, construction, etc, which all profit mightily from illegal alien labor.

When, due to an apparent oversight, actual immigration enforcement occurred at a chicken processing plant in Chicago iirc, the plant was forced to hire local black American citizens at twice the wages the company was paying illegals. That is how it should be.

Undoctored says

DeficitHawk says

I morally dont like that we allow a large population of '2nd class' people who we let stay but dont allow to be citizens. I think its economic exploitation and both parties allow it to go on for their own reasons.

Boom! That is the crux of the matter. Big business loves having an underclass that always lives under the threat of deportation. Dems and Republicans coordinate here, playing good cop/bad cop.

I also entirely agree this is what illegal immigration is about. Either change the law or enforce the law. Our criminal politicians are intentionally making a slave labor class.

I suspect that some of the profits from illegal alien labor are used to print up and distribute lawn signs like "Hate has no home here" and "Immigrants welcome" (not mentioning that they are A. illegal and B. stealing jobs from the poorest US citizens).

Patrick says

Not at all when Trump won. The election denial from Democrats was very loud and persistent.

Oh right, that one... well we may have to agree to disagree on that one.

richwicks says

Either change the law or enforce the law.

Yup, or my preference is to change the law (increase legal immigration) AND enforce the law (stop illegal immigration)

DeficitHawk says

Patrick says

Not at all when Trump won. The election denial from Democrats was very loud and persistent.

Oh right, that one... well we may have to agree to disagree on that one.

Wait @DeficitHawk are saying that Democrats did not deny the 2016 election, loudly and persistently?

Would you like a ton of evidence that they did?

Patrick says

Wait DeficitHawk are saying that Democrats did not deny the 2016 election, loudly and persistently?

Would you like a ton of evidence that they did?

Oh, I misunderstood you, I thought you were talking about 2020.... but actually you were talking about when he ACTUALLY won...

There was quite a bit of whining, I will give you that. And claims that "he only won because... (insert here... dirty tricks, russians, etc...)" Yes I will definitely say the democrats were not graceful losers in that election.

BUT its somewhat different from saying the election outcome itself was fraud, rejecting the result, and claiming your side as the rightful winner, and trying to undermine the outcome by force..... which democrats did NOT do in 2016. Hillary conceded.

(also, I was speaking for myself, not all democrats in those responses above)

Many prominent Democrats did claim the outcome itself was fraud, and claimed Hillary was the rightful winner. Most of their incoherent explanations revolved around Russia somehow.

Do you really think Trump tried to use "force" on 9/11? If so, how come literally zero of the people in the Capitol were armed? Do you classify being able to walk right in as "force?

DeficitHawk says

The vax is safe and effective. -- Yup, per the double blind studies

https://sukwan.substack.com/p/so-what-happened-to-the-pfizer-vaccine

What does it take to really stop the shots and prosecute those responsible? I think we have to go back to the trial data. If the rate of serious adverse events was 1 in 800 in the Pfizer trial, then they would know that their product would cause material harm to millions of people once it was rolled out to so much of the world’s population. Pfizer almost certainly intentionally kept sample sizes very low, threw people out of the analysis, and of course unblinded the study two years before it was over, eliminating the placebo group.

A single death or serious adverse reaction in a clinical trial would need to be reported and extrapolated out to the entire target population this intervention is meant for. That is done to look for rare signals, but the damages can be calculated out. In the Pfizer children’s arm, for example, one 12 year old girl, Maddie de Garay, suffered disability and became wheelchair bound. Pfizer classified her injury as abdominal pain, because otherwise the rate of the jab causing permanent disability would have to be set to 1 in 1200 (the size of the study arm), which is insane for an illness posing statistically no risk to the age group. Pfizer would do anything to hide the bodies of those who might have died or been severely long term injured from the jabs. I speculated on that myself regarding a missing VAERS report many months ago...

I also personally know someone whose doctor refused to file a VAERS report after she got myocarditis from the vaxx.

OK I was surprised I found common ground with a few people on immigration.

Let me try another, maybe low hanging fruit, where I dont fully align with other democrats... Attitudes towards college, free college, and student debt forgiveness.

I think college is fine for people who want to go. And there are some professions that really benefit from learning you get there. But, I dont think that means everyone has to go, or should go, or is entitled to go.

People want to make social mobility better by enabling poor people to go to college, and I agree with that from the meritocracy/social mobility perspective, I want avenues so that family wealth is not the determining factor for your income potential... But policies have gone way too far.. trying to push EVERYONE to go. And trying to say no one should have to pay for it, even not have to pay back their loans. It goes hand in hand with not respecting people who do useful trades that didnt go to college, a sort of elitism in the guise of promoting social mobility, trying to build a purely white collar economy.

I dont think there is any reason that politicians should strive to build a purely college educated white collar economy. Actually I think that's a terrible idea. If the policy succeeds, you'll have a civilization that cant feed itself.. If the policy fails, you'll have a situation where grads from universities take jobs that didnt benefit from college, having wasted 4 years of economically productive time.. either way the policy leads to a bad outcome.

DeficitHawk says

The vax is safe and effective.

https://nitter.pussthecat.org/hugh_mankind/status/1590733326553600003

New World Odor™
@hugh_mankind
Nov 10
BMJ's editor Dr. Peter Doshi raises alarming questions About Safety Concerns

“Pfizer and Moderna trial data are both showing a clear signal of increased risk of serious adverse events among the vaccinated”

Patrick says

Do you really think Trump tried to use "force" on 9/11?

Jan 6, not 9/11, but yes. I think he had a big angry crowd and sent them off to the capital to stir up some trouble while maintaining plausible deniability by not specifically directing them to kill anyone etc.. As the riot evolved, I DO honestly think that for a while, he thought the mob may change the outcome of the election, or achieve an overthrow of the government.... and I DO honestly think that for some time that day, he waited to see what would happen in hopes that he could be made Emperor. I believe that was what was going on in his mind as he watched the riot go on and ignored pleas to intervene and stop the violence. I truly and honestly believe this.

DeficitHawk says

I DO honestly think that for some time that day, he waited to see what would happen in hopes that he could be made Emperor. I believe that was what was going on in his mind as he watched the riot go on and ignored please to intervene and stop the violence. I truly and honestly believe this.

Oops, Jan 6. Pleas and not "please" back, lol.

Emperor? Your belief there is so far removed from the reality I live in that I hope you're kidding. You don't literally mean emperor, right?

A lot of people saw the impossible statistical anomalies and rightly protested the theft of their vote by the Democrat fraud machine. Some of them were led into the Capitol by FBI plants like Ray Epps, but even then, most of the people there were smiling and not at all aggressive. Look at the photos.

The only real violence was the murder of Ashli Babbitt by a Capitol police officer.

DeficitHawk says

I want avenues so that family wealth is not the determining factor for your income potential... But policies have gone way too far.. trying to push EVERYONE to go. And trying to say no one should have to pay for it, even not have to pay back their loans. It goes hand in hand with not respecting people who do useful trades that didnt go to college, a sort of elitism in the guise of promoting social mobility, trying to build a purely white collar economy.

I absolutely agree with you on all of that. I studied in Germany for two years and found they have a much more sensible system in which the majority do not actually go to universities. They stress trades much more than we do, and have formal apprenticeships, etc.

A show of violence would only hurt Trump’s case. I mean this is plain as day in hindsight but even then it was obvious. That’s why I think it was preposterous to think Trump really wanted his supporters to storm the Capitol.

Really, think about it. The Trump campaign had nothing to gain and everything to lose by any show of violence. Their last hope was to demonstrate mass support of Trump, to embolden the Senate that was in session at the time to vote in favor of a recount or revote where significant irregularities had been found. That’s exactly what they were doing and that’s all they were doing. They were shouting and chanting so that the Senate would wake up and listen to them.

Trump and the organizers of the event wanted the Senate to be impressed by the number of people who thought it was that serious. You can wave away their belief that the election was stolen as a delusion on their part but it would have been an even worse delusion to think they could take over the Capitol by brute force. It was not the plan, it was never the plan. But it is exactly what the Democrats would want people to think in order to shame and tarnish the “election deniers.” This is so obvious to me.

DeficitHawk says

2)The efficacy of the vaccine. It think it helps reduce death rate by a lot and infection rate by a little per double blind studies done, but its efficacy is lower on mutation variants and the mutation rate is fairly high, so the efficacy will go down with time or need constant updates like flu shots. Other people think the vaccine has virtually no benefit at all.

Back when Trump was pushing 'Operation Warp Speed,' I watched a news conference from the White House where Trump declared that there would be a vaccine available by January, 2021. One astute reporter asked Fauci if that was possible. Fauci specifically stated that "if EVERYTHING goes right, and it won't, but assuming it does, the best case scenario for a safe and effective vaccine will take a MINIMUM of 5 YEARS, but realistically, more like 10 to 15 years." Fauci went on to explain the various stages of scientific tests, conducted over long periods of time, which is required for observational studies. All of these successful test results are necessary in order to obtain FDA approval. ALL of these stages were bi-passed by Big Pharma. The world is a test lab for Big Pharma. These EXPERIMENTAL 'vaccines.' are making HUMAN BEINGS nothing more than Guinea Pigs.

Question for you: Why is it, that after almost 40 years of HIV/AIDS, and after Big Pharma and the U. S. Government has spent $HUNDREDS of BILLIONS in research and development, they have yet to come up with a safe and effective vaccine?

DeficitHawk says

I DO honestly think that for some time that day, he waited to see what would happen in hopes that he could be made Emperor. I believe that was what was going on in his mind as he watched the riot go on and ignored please to intervene and stop the violence. I truly and honestly believe this.

Trump requested troops in order to protect the White House during the BLM/ANTIFA riots in Lafayette Square. Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Milley refused Trump's request.

How is it that you think that an unarmed group, most of whom were peaceful that day, could have 'taken over the government?' Do you think maybe, just maybe, the military would have stepped in and put down this UNARMED 'insurrection?' What possible chance could Trump have been made "Emperor?"

richwicks says

Either change the law or enforce the law.

Yup, or my preference is to change the law (increase legal immigration) AND enforce the law (stop illegal immigration)


Please talk to a recent high school graduate, or dropout, that wasn't able to go to college, and who has to actually compete against illegal immigrants for the same job.

I knew a guy that had to do that. He was paid under the table, and he was TERRIFIED of being caught, because being caught meant going to jail. For an illegal immigrant, it meant they had to relocate, and for the employer, it meant nothing.

That's the system our GOVERNMENT has setup.

RayAmerica says

Question for you: Why is it, that after almost 40 years of HIV/AIDS, and after Big Pharma and the U. S. Government has spent $HUNDREDS of BILLIONS in research and development, they have yet to come up with a safe and effective vaccine?

Oh, I thought this was well understood... HIV is a retrovirus which can evade normal immune function by imprinting itself into the host cell DNA. . And its surface proteins mutate rapidly. It is hard to develop a vaccine for this type of virus. Thats why HIV research has gone on so long but not found an effective vaccine.

COVID is not this type of virus. Its more like a vanilla coronavirus.

richwicks says

Please talk to a recent high school graduate, or dropout, that wasn't able to go to college, and who has to actually compete against illegal immigrants for the same job.

I dont know... we are at extremely low unemployment, with our main economic problems being inflation caused by lack of sufficient workforce, COVID disruptions, and increasing fraction of retired people. I think increasing workforce of working age legal immigrants would be overall good for our economy.

DeficitHawk says

COVID is not this type of virus. Its more like a vanilla coronavirus.

If you read the DoD documents, what has been mis-labled covid, is really a spike protein bio-weapon.

NuttBoxer says

DeficitHawk says

COVID is not this type of virus. Its more like a vanilla coronavirus.

If you read the DoD documents, what has been mis-labled covid, is really a spike protein bio-weapon.

link?

DeficitHawk says

I dont know... we are at extremely low unemployment, with our main economic problems being inflation caused by lack of sufficient workforce, COVID disruptions, and increasing fraction of retired people. I think increasing workforce of working age legal immigrants would be overall good for our economy.

My wife's Mexican. Her uncle told me how they had a government program in the 70's to bus migrants in for the growing season. One of the few times I heard something that makes sense coming from government.

My wife and in-laws are all strongly against illegals. It insults the effort they made to be here legally. When I was younger I worked at FedEx and had a co-worker who was originally from Mexicali. That guy told me about taking the citizenship test, and how proud he was to become an American. The only people I ever hear pushing for illegals are whites who don't know shit about it, or Central and South Americans, who seem to be born with a pan-handling sign in their hands.

When I was a kid, I tried picking blueberries with a friend for money. Friend was coincidentally Mexican/Puerto Rican. It's fucking hard work. Not something that lazy, benefit seeking people engage in. If you can come to this country and better your situation without looking for handouts, my hat to off to you, regardless of how you get in.