patrick.net

NuttBoxer says

My wife and in-laws are all strongly against illegals. It insults the effort they made to be here legally.

NuttBoxer says

It's fucking hard work. Not something that lazy, benefit seeking people engage in.

Yes, and Yes.

DeficitHawk says

link?

Don't have one(was a while back), but feel free to search, or remain skeptical. What I can tell you from personal experience is whatever it is that attacked me was not the flu, or any other virus. It was far more invasive in that after recovery it was still mounting some sort of attack. I know because I stopped taking zinc, and lost sense of smell and taste. Had to take zinc for two weeks after recovery before it stopped attacking my immune system. Six months later it returned in a slightly weaker form. But I was more concerned this time, as it almost seemed to be like something that had remained dormant in my system, rather than being eradicated the first time around. This time I hit it with Hydroxcholorquine and Ivermectin. Ivermectin is anti-bacterial, not anti-viral.

It is not natural, not viral, or at least not limited to virus form. So based on what I saw from DoD combined with personal experience, and the main culprit in the harm that is done by the shots, spike protein is the most likely explanation.

DeficitHawk says

ignored pleas to intervene and stop the violence

@DeficitHawk

DeficitHawk says

You are more inclined to distrust such institutions and disregard the results, and make extrapolations from personal experience.

It's not that I don't trust institutions. A vaccine is a longer process than what we got to confirm it's SAFE long term. You cannot fast forward time. It rolled out a little over two years ago with limited small trails.

Not a virus per se, but look at what we've put in our homes in the past. Asbestos, lead pipes, lead paint, etc. Government didn't make the vaccine, they just paid for it. They gave big pharma protection against litigation. This is a society one would want to live in? Then government tries to force this vaccine on us or loss of job results. How did we get in this place?

I currently have covid, day 3. I am unvaccinated. It's a minor flu bug. It sucks, but it's like most flu with varying symptoms. My wife and I both have it, she was vaccinated. It's not anecdotal at all. Confirmed Covid, the vaccine doesn't work. Her symptoms are worse than mine and she's substantially healthier.

Can we at least agree we were lied to about the vaccine not working? It doesn't. 4 other people we were with us on a trip, vaccinated, all got it. Our symptoms are all the same. 2 of them are urgent care nurses. They've had it twice AFTER vaccination and at least one booster. People lost their jobs over this and it simply doesn't work. And there's no recourse. It's honestly indefensible.

And again I'll go back to long term ramifications. Anecdotal, but it happened. My wife's cycle was messed up for months after the vax. No other changes in her health.

Patrick has posts in the vaccine thread he linked above. There are hockey stick increases in illness not common before the vaccine overall. It's obviously not 90% of people and there will always be reactions, but it's way too high.

And I'd agree I'm the anecdotal guy. But if people aren't paying attention we'd still be rolling lead based paint, insulating/tiling with asbestos, or the situation like Erin Brockovich discovered. There's no way you or anyone else, even unbiased scientist can prove this vaccine is safe long term. 5-10 years from now maybe there's a 30% uptick in cancer. Without a nuclear war, one would have to question the vaccine down the road or studies find it.

Bottom line it doesn't work and there's an uptick in illness that correlates all around the time vaccines rolled.

NuttBoxer says

Ivermectin is anti-bacterial, not anti-viral.

Sure about that? Even the government now admits Ivermectin has anti-Covid virus properties:

Ivermectin, a US Food and Drug Administration-approved anti-parasitic agent, was found to inhibit severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) replication in vitro.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

HeadSet says

NuttBoxer says

Ivermectin is anti-bacterial, not anti-viral.

Sure about that? Even the government now admits Ivermectin has anti-Covid virus properties:

Ivermectin, a US Food and Drug Administration-approved anti-parasitic agent, was found to inhibit severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) replication in vitro.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

It's anti microbial, anti viral and anti parasitic, prob also anti bacterial, but it's been used as anti viral and anti parasitic

Patrick says

DeficitHawk says

ignored pleas to intervene and stop the violence

DeficitHawk

Admire your passion to debate but you can't do that successfully until npcs agree on basic fundamental facts and truths. Your feelings and beliefs about Trump don't matter, the facts are indisputable, an they are out in the open, the Donald never incited violence, quite the opposite. Anybody spewing bullshit about violence or an insurrection in connection with Trump is either deeply lost in the npc propaganda ether, or deliberately obtuse, serving the leftoid marxist propaganda

As far as my covid status I've improved nicely over even just the last 4 hours. Sinus is dripping like a faucet, but the worst parts of my symptoms are dropping off and quickly it seems. Wife still has the chills, cough, runny nose and is aching. One sample, I know, but it was 6 of us that got it at the same time. I'm recovering the fastest and am the only unvaccinated person.

I'm not a scientist or data analyst, but this matters. 6 people got covid at the same time and location. 5 vaccinated, 1 not vaccinated. Vaccine doesn't work 100% in this scenario. Quickest one recovering is me, unvaccinated. You can ignore this anecdotal data, BUT it doesn't mean I'm wrong. I have nothing to gain from talking about this.

I'm just upset a vaccine was forced on minors and people just didn't need it due to age. There were continued lockdown and mask mandates for no reason. Many people lost jobs. We have labor shortages. Shortages of goods. Massive inflation for the first time in decades. High fuel prices. Lacking leadership. Entering a proxy war with a non-NATO country in Ukraine. Nothing has happened positive in two years. It was all bitching about Trump still from the Dems. No action. Roe V. Wade is the only thing that comes to mind and all that does if give states rights back to them. And that was SCOTUS.

@DeficitHawk Dispute anything in the above paragraphs (well besides the first).

WookieMan says

5 vaccinated, 1 not vaccinated

You vaxxed your kids?

I have a few friends who are Muslims and they will always vote Democrat in non-Muslim countries. I don't debate with them. Its futile. There are some things on the planet that are not debatable. I am indifferent to them.

HeadSet says

Even the government now admits Ivermectin has anti-Covid virus properties:

And that was from Feb 2021, more than a year and a half ago.

The truth is that the government "health" agencies are entirely corrupted by Pfizer and the like, who really don't care how many people they kill as long as they get their $100 billion.

The Democrats also saw the opportunity to destroy Trump's embarrassingly good economy, and the WEF saw the opportunity to bring forward its plans to take absolute control over the planet through "vaxx passports" and draconian suppression of peaceful dissent, such as suspending the bank accounts of Canadian truckers.

WookieMan says

As far as my covid status I've improved nicely over even just the last 4 hours.

Glad you are feeling better Wookie!

Honestly I am not very interested in Covid vaccines and surrounding conspiracy theories. This is not a topic that concerns me much, and I dont have much interest in it. Out of respect for Patrick, I personally deep dived and investigated the raw data for two articles he linked, but found only extremely misleading characterizations of data, which I debunked fact by fact here on this forum. This is not something I spend my time on... I did so only because I offered myself for debate here, and felt obligated to investigate. But when I investigate and find only nonsense, misrepresentation of data, sources who INTENTIONALLY misrepresent facts... I just don't know what to do with that sort of information but disregard it.

People will make their own choices about vaccines and health. I do not favor mandates as I have said above, but at the same time there are no stormtroopers forcing vaccinations, and no one has to take them. In most situations, there are opt out provisions without impacting school or employment. In the limited situations where there are not opt out provisions, Im sorry to say minority opinions will have to accept inconvenience and find a new job or whatever. Dont be such a crybaby.

Patrick says

and draconian suppression of peaceful dissent, such as suspending the bank accounts of Canadian truckers

There is no shortage of complaints on this forum about people blocking freeways and roads during BLM protests. And those complaints are legit, obstructing freeway traffic is NOT lawful protest, it is illegal. When Canadian truckers do the same thing, those complaints are legit too.

How can you not see your hypocrisy?

DeficitHawk says

I personally deep dived and investigated the raw data for two articles he linked, but found only extremely misleading characterizations of data, which I debunked fact by fact here on this forum.

Please link to this post.

Just copy and past the URL - this is a link to this URL and specific post: https://patrick.net/post/1377632/2022-11-10-can-anyone-find-some-democrats-willing?start=421#comment-1900088

You can get this by clicking the date and time on the post, as I just did. In this instance, it is "2022 Nov 22, 10:38pm"

Please show your complete refutation - I would be interested in reading it.

comments 365 and 378

https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1897745

https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1897780

Even Patrick acknowledge that the dataset in the first article did not support its conclusion.

DeficitHawk says

There is no shortage of complaints on this forum about people blocking freeways and roads during BLM protests. And those complaints are legit, obstructing freeway traffic is NOT lawful protest, it is illegal. When Canadian truckers do the same thing, those complaints are legit too.

How can you not see your hypocrisy?

Woah, dude, BLM was literally murdering people and burning down neighborhoods and were bailed out by prominent Democrats, much less had to worry about having their bank accounts frozen.

The Canadian truckers were 100% peaceful and were beaten by police, arrested, and and had their bank accounts frozen. A national "state of emergency" was declared in Canada over completely peaceful protest.

Can you not see your hypocrisy @DeficitHawk ?

Patrick says

Can you not see your hypocrisy DeficitHawk ?

There is hypocrisy on both sides. I think blocking freeways is NOT ok as a form of protest. I didnt like it when BLM did it in Oakland (I was stuck in such a traffic jam) and I would not have liked it if truckers did it either.

@DeficitHawk

Onvacation says

You vaxxed your kids?

Big fuck no to that. Trip for my wife's 40th with friends and colleagues to Mexico, no kids and no jab for them. Just found out that two more got it from the group. So I think 8 of us total.

Everyone is sick right now. And they're all going to travel for Thanksgiving. Put this way I think next week is going to be a light week for a lot of people. I knew I would get it at one point, but it's ripping through population in the states, apparently Mexico.

We said fuck it and just flew back. Half the damn plane sounded like they were dying. Hyperbolic but it was a cough fest I've never heard on a flight. We weren't at that stage yet.

Patrick says

DeficitHawk says

There is no shortage of complaints on this forum about people blocking freeways and roads during BLM protests. And those complaints are legit, obstructing freeway traffic is NOT lawful protest, it is illegal. When Canadian truckers do the same thing, those complaints are legit too.

How can you not see your hypocrisy?

Woah, dude, BLM was literally murdering people and burning down neighborhoods and were bailed out by prominent Democrats, much less had to worry about having their bank accounts frozen.

The Canadian truckers were 100% peaceful and were beaten by police, arrested, and and had their bank accounts frozen. A national "state of emergency" was declared in Canada over completely peaceful protest.

Can you not see your hypocrisy DeficitHawk ?

Not to mention that the stasi police stole all their spare diesel fuel so that they were facing being frozen to death. BLM "leaders" took the money and ran, while anyone in canada (I won't capitalize it until the government of that country deserves it) who donated to the truckers had his bank accounts frozen and was threatened with imprisonment. Way to go, "liberals."

Hey, while we are speaking of controversial topics... let me say my thoughts on a few legal cases recently.

There are three court cases that had big racial/political/social justice implications that I investigated facts in detail.

1) George Floyd case
2) Kyle Rittenhouse case
3) Ahmaud Arbery case

I think the juries got all three exactly right. Gives me some confidence in the justice system.

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/the-act-of-submitting-engenders-submission

if one seeks to control the prevailing mores of a society, what actions are allowed and which banned becomes a critical and dispositive matter:

burn a car dealership and a police station to the ground and it smiles indulgently. maybe you get probation. probably not. those ideals are OK.

loiter peacefully in a buffalo hat in the capitol rotunda, and they drop the world on your head. terrorist. treason. confess and repent and maybe, just maybe, we’ll let you out of prison in 5 years. these ideals are anathema.

they want to render the cost of opposition so high that any sane person would fear to pay it.

they also want to provide indulgences for those who act beastly in leviathan’s name.

carrot, stick.

and as long as they control the system, they control the incentives.

and as long as they control the incentives, they will try to use them to use your “do” to change your “be.”

but this is a thing we can take back from them.

and the defense against this dark art is actually rather fun.

the defense is petty rebellion. ...

the sanity you save may be your own.

you may find you develop quite a taste for it.

you may find you develop quite a flair for it.

you may find that you are having fun.

https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1900095

This is funny. I like the image.

BUT, you are trying to downplay the hypocrisy on your side of the argument, and you are wrong for doing so.

Let me be clear.... I think BLM narrative "Cops are racist murderers and law enforcement is an inherently racist institution that should be abolished" people are crazy. Totally F-ing nuts. I also think anti vax conspiracy theorists are crazy. Totally F-ing nuts. These are two categories of tin foil hat people that I rank approximately equal to each other.

Im all for peoples right to have crazy conspiracy theories. Thats fine, they can do them, I dont have to pay attention. But if either of them goes and blocs the freeways in protest, now I have a real problem with them. Left or Right.

DeficitHawk says

comments 365 and 378

https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1897745

https://patrick.net/comment?comment_id=1897780

Even Patrick acknowledge that the dataset in the first article did not support its conclusion.

OK, we have different standards of proof.

I don't trust a government that lied to support a war in Iraq over weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist, and then prosecuted the people that exposed the Downing Street memos that PURPORTED to show they knew it was a lie, and supported the war regardless.

Find a journal and then, I need to research the reliability of that journal. The Lancet, a well respected journal, has done HORRIFIC harm to itself by lying about the dangers of hydroxychloroquine. They actually murdered people to falsely show it was a useless drug. That's your government. I've seen bogus studies before and there's nothing from the government that should be paid any attention whatsoever. These are the same assholes that claimed that Ivermectin was dangerous - there's NEVER been a death from it. I don't think there is an LD-50 for it.

Don't show me a government source. The government lies continually, constantly, unendingly. How can you not realize it at this point?

richwicks says

OK, we have different standards of proof.

Yup, clearly we do.
richwicks says
(

I don't trust a government that lied to support a war in Iraq over weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist, and then prosecuted the people that exposed the Downing Street memos.

Actually, I agree with you on this point regarding Iraq 2 war.

But still, The article linked has a headline implying you are 8x more likely to get omicron if you get the vaccine and both patrick and I (and others) agree the data does not support this conclusion... the headline is incredibly misleading. And this has nothing to do with either US or UK governments (it is a study of israeli population for south african/omicron variant). Its just someone badly twisting information into a headline that is profoundly misleading... and yet it is referenced in this thread as something I should take seriously! Why would anyone proliferate this type of trash article!?!?!

DeficitHawk says

richwicks says

OK, we have different standards of proof.

Yup, clearly we do.
richwicks says
(

I don't trust a government that lied to support a war in Iraq over weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist, and then prosecuted the people that exposed the Downing Street memos.

Actually, I agree with you on this point regarding Iraq 2 war.

But still, The article linked has a headline implying you are 8x more likely to get omicron

You're listening to a source that you and I both agree blatantly lies to the public.

It's not a source. They produce propaganda.

They'll kill 800,000 Iraqis over a lie, why do you think they'll tell you the truth if they kill their own population?

And that number, 800,000 has been derived over 20 years - the government never reported that. It was painstakingly built up based on population statistics of Iraq. It took a more than a decade to get that number. It's still an estimate.

Our governments lie to us all the time. Why is it you put any faith in them at all? Remember when the US government was saying that Trump was about to start WWIII? Remember when they claimed that he was unfit for office because of senility or insanity? Remember when they claimed his family was corrupt? Biden is all of those - why do you suspect the government EVER tells you the truth?

They don't.

How is it possible that at this point, you don't see this?

It is honestly perplexing to me. If it's a government source, they will lie rather than embarrass themselves. You know that.

Uh, richwicks he agreed with you on that point on Iraq.

He is simply stating that the Article's headline is full on propaganda for saying that you are 8X more likely to get Omicron if you had the Vaxx when the underlying stats prove otherwise.

It's not just the government that is untruthful.

Misc says

Uh, richwicks he agreed with you on that point on Iraq.

He is simply stating that the Article's headline is full on propaganda for saying that you are 8X more likely to get Omicron if you had the Vaxx when the underlying stats prove otherwise.

It's not just the government that is untruthful.

The link I followed pointed to this:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1049160/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-3-2022.pdf

He was citing a government source. A source he KNOWS is unreliable and lies. I brought up the Downing Street memo because that's from a UK government website.

I'm not certain which article headline you are talking about, what I'm trying to get him to understand, is the government lies. It lies a lot. The government NEVER admits error, at least, it takes years, even decades, before it does. He must be aware of this at this point.

If the vaccines show themselves to be ineffective and dangerous (and I believe they are), it will take at least 1/2 a decade before the government starts claiming "it was a mistake". It was not a mistake, these mother fuckers lied to us. To what ends? I don't know. I'll find out in time. If this was a culling event, we have to fucking kill them, and sterilize ALL their progeny. We need to wipe them out.

Kids are blameless, but we cannot allow these genocidal and/or insane gene line to proliferate in our future planet.

I'm not fucking kidding, this shit has to end. We allow sociopaths to run this world because the vast majority of people don't see them as sociopaths, and they think even if they are, at least they are competent. They are not competent. These are stupid, fucking, criminal assholes who exist only because of government corruption and criminality - they play by entirely different rules.

IF they have attempted to cull the population, they have to be wiped out, at the genetic level.

Patrick says

https://www.technocracy.news/get-vaxxed-you-might-be-8-times-more-likely-than-non-vaxxed-to-catch-south-african-variant/

This is the article with the misleading title. It is not based on US or UK data.

DeficitHawk says

which I debunked

Deboonked you deboonked it.

DeficitHawk says

1) George Floyd case
2) Kyle Rittenhouse case
3) Ahmaud Arbery case

I think the juries got all three exactly right. Gives me some confidence in the justice system.

The underlying cause of all three of these cases is THE POLICE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THEIR JOBS!

Floyd (violent career criminal who died of an OD) shouldn't have been on the street committing more crimes.
Rittenhouse should not have felt compelled to protect businesses (police's job).
Arbery was really stupid to try to take a shotgun from someone and should not have been trespassing.

The commonality between these three cases is politicians not letting the police do their jobs. It's like they want to incite race wars.

DeficitHawk says

I also think anti vax conspiracy theorists are crazy.

So you think the vax is totally safe and effective in spite of all the evidence that it is unsafe and ineffective? And you think that people that don't want to take this experimental biologic agent should lose their job?

Did I get that right?

Onvacation says

DeficitHawk says

I also think anti vax conspiracy theorists are crazy.

So you think the vax is totally safe and effective in spite of all the evidence that it is unsafe and ineffective? And you think that people that don't want to take this experimental biologic agent should lose their job?

Did I get that right?

i didn’t get the vax and no problems either. those big pharma goons scared shit out of the left with virus propaganda. they are all vaccinating. in my area vax rate is close to 10% and we don’t have any of the issues left said we would.

lefts covid shit was their wmd lie, they just refuse to acknowledge it because hurt feelings for being wrong. i remember when right would not ket go if wmd in iraq the same way.

richwicks says

fucking kill them, and sterilize ALL their progeny. We need to wipe them out.

Genocide much? and I thought Patrick was extreme for wanting to hang people.

I think we are at the end of the road in this thread searching for common ground on Covid and vaccine efficacy. Ive linked some papers I thought used solid methodology (double blind studies). Ive seen responses that studies are not to be trusted, but have not seen a factual/analytical explanation of why I should not believe those studies. Closest to this was mell, with his assumption that only deaths or ER treatments should be trusted, which reduces the statistical power of the studies.... but I dont agree with mell... I think in a double blind control study where the populations are monitored for infection, infection rates and illness are valid datapoints. But in the analysis of data from non-controlled studies...(public health monitoring, etc) then I DO agree with mell that deaths are the more reliable metric rather than case rates, because infection detection and reporting is widely variable by subpopulations, but deaths are likely detected and reported. I've reviewed some articles and papers others have posted, and been pretty transparent in my analysis of why I thought they were flawed or misleading. Take it for what you will. I am done with this topic.

Want to talk about anything else?

Onvacation says

The underlying cause of all three of these cases is THE POLICE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THEIR JOBS!

There may be some truth to this. The sentiment that police are the bad guys is definitely impacting law enforcement, and we see it in decisions around prosecution as well as policing, and it may impact the rate of repeat offenders being on streets, and violent riots going on until they escalate and someone gets killed.

In the Floyd case, I'd say the police WERE doing their job in arresting someone with probable cause of a crime. Trouble is they also did the job of judge jury and executioner! That's not allowed, and it shouldn't be. I watched the video... I think the knee on neck for 9 minutes, well past the point where he stopped moving and stopped breathing MAY have had something to do with the death.

Wasn't his official cause of death fentanyl overdose?

Patrick says

Wasn't his official cause of death fentanyl overdose?

Correct.

DeficitHawk says

I think the knee on neck for 9 minutes, well past the point where he stopped moving and stopped breathing MAY have had something to do with the death.

May? Just like that motorcyclist in Florida involved in a horrific crash MAY have died of Covid instead of trauma.

DeficitHawk says

richwicks says

fucking kill them, and sterilize ALL their progeny. We need to wipe them out.

Genocide much? and I thought Patrick was extreme for wanting to hang people.

You've misquoted me by PURPOSELY taking me out of context. What I said was:

richwicks says

If the vaccines show themselves to be ineffective and dangerous (and I believe they are), it will take at least 1/2 a decade before the government starts claiming "it was a mistake". It was not a mistake, these mother fuckers lied to us. To what ends? I don't know. I'll find out in time. If this was a culling event, we have to fucking kill them, and sterilize ALL their progeny. We need to wipe them out.

Use of this sort of dishonesty and deception means it's not worthwhile to communicate with you. You don't listen, rather, you lie. You construct strawmans, and attack that.

IF this turns out to be a culling event, and we don't know at this point, you'll likely be dead because it's almost certain you've taken the injection. We don't know the long term effects of the vaccine but people like you are bound to find out.

How many times does the government and media have to lie to you, before you realize they are not honest? It's people like you that just spend 5 minutes listening to the television and screams at everybody else to shut up and "listen to the experts" that are one of the largest problems with this country. Mindless repetition is why we ended up in the Iraq War - "weapons of mass destruction" was the slogan then. For Libya it was "prevent a humanitarian crisis" and for Syria it was "Assad is gassing his own people" and for this it's "safe and effective".

You know the marketing slogans for each. Why don't you recognize it was a marketing slogan? How FUCKING obvious does propaganda have to be before you realize it's propaganda, and why do you resist knowing you were tricked? For all I know, in 10 years, 90% of the people who were "vaccinated" will be dead. You don't know either.

And PS: If this was a culling event, it was a genocide, are you such a fucking obedient cattle that you want nothing done about it? If this was a culling event, they may have just killed 5 billion people and you're just the walking dead.

Patrick says

Wasn't his official cause of death fentanyl overdose?

Nope, immediate cause of death is listed as neck restraint, manner is homicide.. Drug use and heart condition is listed as contributing condition. Medical examiner testified the same at trial too, neck restraint caused death, not overdose.