patrick.net

cisTits says

Survive what?

Clarification:

Survive as the predominant economic, military power, along with a relatively high degree of freedom.

The example I gave of Great Britain, which was the greatest empire the world had ever seen (as far as land mass). It is now a mere fraction of what it once was. Is this our fate?

I might also add to the list ... America's moral light to the world ... the light shining on the hill.

Example: Alexis de Tocqueville's description of America from his classic "Democracy in America"

"I sought for the greatness and genius of America in her commodious harbors and her ample rivers—and it was not there. . . . . in her fertile fields and boundless forests—and it was not there. . . . .in her rich mines and her vast world commerce—and it was not there. . . . in her democratic Congress and her matchless Constitution—and it was not there. Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great."

From what I see down here, we will likely morph into some form of Latin American country...if we are lucky.

Will Communism survive. Communism hangs in the balance here as well. There wont be walking a lot of stuff back when sanity is restored.
60% are just going along for the ride, oblivious to the politics afoot. Eventually they will have to reckon with reality. Will communism survive or will it be rejected, once those folks figure out what in the hell is going on.

No, break up of the Union by 2032 if not sooner.
USA won't have it's exceptionalism nor unity to pull through the bursting of the debt bubble.

It's like the stock market, it can go on irrational much longer than one can stay solvent while betting against it. Will take a while and it could reverse at any point as well. Trump was a brief shake up which had the potential for reversal.

America was divided by an Illuminati Civil War under an imposed Hegelian Dialectic, then the weakened remains were auctioned to European financiers in 1871. We have been hijacked by the foreign owned foreign city state of Washington DC ever since, feeding off our backs while pretending to represent us and giving us our directed history ever since.

I think the question is, can the Republic be re-established with renewed nationalism on good operating terms without succumbing to the purposeful forces of subversion? The internet information genie and enlightened parallel processing powers of the population, combined with un-captured state sovereignty and the Second Amendment might do it, might not. I guess it is in God's hands, but another Civil War has to be avoided. I think el-Trumpo's measured responses are about avoiding Civil War, because the Globalists and Illuminatis have so many destructive options to win whereas the road back to the Republic is narrow, risky and rocky. Even a military solution would first require a major putsch in which as much as a third of the military command itself would first have to be arrested or summarily executed to proceed.

mell says

was a brief shake up which had the potential for reversal.

Trump was proof all it takes is political will. That's why Trump could have some serious competition in 2024 if other people, capable of making a difference steps up and throws their hat in the ring. The Mitt Romney, and Chris Christie and other milquetoast career Republicans don't stand a chance. Elon Musk is setting himself up to be someone capable of getting Americans to believe in him. The 2024 GOP primary will be about who do you Trust at this point to do anything?
Kevin McCarthy rejected the Chamber of Commerce today, which is a good sign. He's set in motion a battle to take down the 87,000 IRS agents, he's got other options, if it gets shot down in the Senate. I want to see him man up and use them. There's still a long way to go. But if he keeps doing the right thing, and not just giving lip service we will see his name in the Primaries.

The Never Trump RINOs that think that they have a chance, are the delusional ones.

cisTits says

charlie303 says

No, break up of the Union by 2032 if not sooner.
USA won't have it's exceptionalism nor unity to pull through the bursting of the debt bubble.

Did Greece breakup?

Argentina?

Brazil?

And (recently) the UK?

List of nations that have had debt crises is large. Those on that list that broke apart because of it are very few in number.

What will happen in the US is going to be massive spending cuts at the federal level and some states as well as possible currency reform. That's it.

The US has practiced "soft empire" in that it economically and militarily dominates countries worldwide while leaving these countries "independent." I.e., Iran, Chile, Honduras, Philippines, Panama, etc..

So technically, there is no empire other than the presence of overseas military/naval bases. These will probably go away.

Unlike practically every other nation on Earth, the US is largely self-sufficient in material and (until the deliberate attempt to dumb down the population) human resources. CONUS will survive, maybe not the Pacific possessions.

cisTits says

charlie303 says

No, break up of the Union by 2032 if not sooner.
USA won't have it's exceptionalism nor unity to pull through the bursting of the debt bubble.

Did Greece breakup?

Argentina?

Brazil?

And (recently) the UK?

List of nations that have had debt crises is large. Those on that list that broke apart because of it are very few in number.

What will happen in the US is going to be massive spending cuts at the federal level and some states as well as possible currency reform. That's it.

No, this debt bubble burst won't be like the others. A lot of those countries went through pain and survived but this time it is different because it is the US itself and by association most of the West. The powers that be have known this for awhile, which is why they meet in Davos as the WEF in order to plan The Great Reset. They reckon the USA won't be a super power in the future.
They are also pushing for more war with Russia as their plans aren't proceeding as well as they hoped what with the covid scamdemic flailing. No cease fires, peace talks or negotiations of any kind with Russia. A war with Russia would be an ideal excuse to usher in The Great Reset. They actually believe a limited nuclear confrontation is winnable. That's a measure of how big the forthcoming economic collapse will be in their estimation. That they are willing to risk that. You may say countries have managed to survive past wars as they have survived debt defaults. But nuclear war is different. Not this time.
.

They’ll just take the debt to totally unmanageable levels, say 50 trillion or so, then they’ll throw up their hands and say “We are doomed unless we mint the coin!”

Then they’ll direct the treasury to mint a 50 trillion dollar coin and deposit it in the federal reserve, creating new equity to draw debt against.

RayAmerica says

I might also add to the list ... America's moral light to the world ... the light shining on the hill.

We're not that! We gave that up 20 years ago when our government cynically used the 9/11 WTC attack to lie us into a fucking ware in Iraq that had NOTHING to do with it.

Our federal government is a bunch of lying hypocrites, and our population just rolls over and takes it.

Right now, we're fighting to keep our first amendment, when the FIB is in bed with all the "big tech" to call anything they want hidden "Russian propaganda", to silence dissent, and to encourage corruption. Twitter was FILLED with fucking pedophiles which Yoel Roth, a homosexual probable pedophile on the "trust and safety board" protected for YEARS with 40 FIB agents at that company.

You think we're the shining beacon at THIS point? That's been gone for AGES.

This is our president's son:



and this is our current president:


original link

Hypocrisy is the core value of the United States now. That's our beacon. We're not a moral nation. We're working with Saudi Arabia to starve children in Yemen, it's estimated 1/4 million have died. We brought back slavery to Libya. We instigated a war between Russia and Ukraine. We bombed natural gas energy infrastructure to put Europe under our thumb. What's moral about any of this?

richwicks says

You think we're the shining beacon at THIS point? That's been gone for AGES.

I think you're misunderstanding the point that I was making. I posted the Alexis de Tocqueville summation of what he found 18th.
Century America to be as an obvious stark contrast to what we have become. IMO, the serious slide began in earnest in the 1960's, and
it's been all downhill since.

RayAmerica says

richwicks says

You think we're the shining beacon at THIS point? That's been gone for AGES.

I think you're misunderstanding the point that I was making. I posted the Alexis de Tocqueville summation of what he found 18th.
Century America to be as an obvious stark contrast to what we have become. IMO, the serious slide began in earnest in the 1960's, and
it's been all downhill since.

The slide began with Abraham Lincoln.

We're all taught that the "civil" war was about slavery - it wasn't, it was about taxation. The South were major producers, and the North were viper banking interests predating on the South. Lincoln shut down newspapers, jailed editors, exiled state representatives, imposed a national taxation. The South had a 40% taxation on their import/export duties - the asshole was truly a tyrant. Lincoln really was a tyrant. He was one of the worst traitors to the Constitution we've ever had as president.

The 2nd worst I would say is Woodrow Wilson, who imposed federal taxation in the Constitution, and created the Federal Reserve and IRS. Someday, I want to take a shit on Wilson's grave.

We're not taught history.


original link

When John Wilkes Booth shot and killed Lincoln he screamed "death to tyrants", and that's precisely what Lincoln was. You might think "well, Lincoln opposed slavery, so that was a good thing" - well, he did, because he didn't think black and white people should live among another. His plan was to deport every single slave to Liberia or send them off as slave labor to build the Panama Canal. He was a product of his age, but if he was alive today, you'd think he was a total racist asshole, because he was a total racist asshole. He wouldn't respect Thomas Sowell and that man is quite a smart man. Lincoln did not believe in equality of the races, but he was a product of his time.

Honestly if I was born in 1850, pretty certain I'd have been turned into what is considered today to be a racial asshole bigot. I'd have different opinions given different data to form my opinions.

cisTits says

charlie303 says

No, this debt bubble burst won't be like the others.

How so?

For those other nations, their debt to GDP ratio was far worse.

charlie303 says

time it is different because it is the US itself

So what?

Basically, it's because the US dollar is the world's reserve currency. It is used in trade all over the world. All commodities, oil, gold, soy beans, etc are priced in US dollars. When countries or corporations trade in US dollars they like to know that their money is 'safe' and 'secure' and easily accessible. That's one of the reasons why, in order to be a reserve currency, you need a liquid and well maintained bond market. Once the debt bubble pops so goes the US Treasury market and the US dollar as global reserve currency. The world will have to find a new way to trade. It won't be as simple as going through some pain for 2 or 3 years and then back to business as usual for everyone. The US won't be able to rack up $Trillion deficits anymore as nobody will buy their debt and they can't endlessly print the money because it will lose value, lose purchasing power. What will America have to sell the world?

It's different this time because the US$ is the bedrock foundation of the West. A peripheral country like Greece can go through upheaval with negligible impact on the core but once the US goes then all Western countries will be in serious trouble as they all follow the same playbook, which is to print and borrow. The full faith and credit of the US and the West is based on a strong military and past reputation and little else.

The elites know this reset is coming and it will be as monumental as the end of WW2 where the Bretton Woods agreement was established making the US dollar supreme over the then reserve currency the British pound. I think the collapse will be larger than the fall of the Spanish Empire (they had all the gold from the New World remember) and will be comparable to the fall of the Roman Empire.

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stereotomy says

the presence of overseas military/naval bases. These will probably go away.

This incredible force will 'come home', elbowing around trying to find a self-justifying 'mission' within our borders.
Anticipating this is likely why they instituted United States Northern Command (USNORTHCOM) in 2002 which for the fist time allowed the organization and direction of military operations in 'the Homeland' to "provide military assistance to non-military authorities including consequence management operations".

cisTits says

What will happen in the US is going to be massive spending cuts at the federal level and some states as well as possible currency reform. That's it.

So, the average schmo's standard of living gets cut in half, I wonder how he will take that?

We are already living way beyond our means....something is going to break financially. Add on the extra interest payments now and we are screwed.

And no empire lasts long after it's currency is destroyed. The United States will not survive in it's current form, but I bet we return to Federalism and then selected states/regions will do really well like circa 1860

I'm posting this again because I think it is very apropos to this subject:

The Fate of Empires and Search for Survival by Sir John Glubb

Free PDF download here: https://www.docdroid.net/5CdrehR/the-fate-of-empires-by-sir-john-glubb-pdf

Glubb tracked the major empires throughout history and found that they all had various stages that they experienced through their rise and fall.

I've read it twice ... and highly recommend it. It's only 26 pages in length.

The death of America has been constantly predicted since 1776.

Robert Sproul says

So, the average schmo's standard of living gets cut in half, I wonder how he will take that?

Stoically

Eric Holder says

The death of America has been constantly predicted since 1776.

The America of 1776 has long been dead. You can't even open a lemonade stand without a permit. Think that's how it was in 1800's Boston?

cisTits says

And I have yet to see how anything pertaining to the rest of the world being fucked leading to the breakup of America.

I have, but it's basically along the lines that if we're not the king terrorists, the new terrorists will be worse than us. I kind of doubt it. China and Russia have their warlike tendencies, but they don't just go into a country and bomb the fuck out of it in an attempt to steal their resources. It's too expensive and stupid to do it that way.

It's only the US that is this stupid, because the US is run by Neocon traitors. They don't care if it bankrupts this nation. It's cheaper for them to lie us into a war in order to rape it, than it is to negotiate a fair trade deal.

RayAmerica says

the serious slide began in earnest in the 1960's

I've read that the 60's represented as significant a change in cultures as both the French and Communist Revolutions. At least the Chinese Cultural Revolution which is much like ours today died with (hold the) Mayo. The broad changes are the everyday experiences now: the entrenched drug culture that knows no end and kills millions of young people every year, unwed parenthood that leads to government dependency and is responsible for no telling how much mental illness as a by-product. I remember a WSJ essay from maybe 1969 or 1971 about how the barricades of the previous culture with its stigmas and prohibitions have been broken down and people living lives of degradation and poverty because of it, which we see everywhere in the coastal cities. Yes, the 60's "took".

NDrLoR says

The broad changes are the everyday experiences now: the entrenched drug culture that knows no end and kills millions of young people every year, unwed parenthood that leads to government dependency and is responsible for no telling how much mental illness as a by-product.

I want to point out, again, this is the main source of society's mental illness:



That tool destroys more minds than you know. I have a friendly bet with anybody here, turn that off for just a week, and see how you feel. The MAJORITY of people will be in withdrawal.

Turn off the TV, don't substitute with radio, or Internet - and see how you feel after one week of not being told how you should think, and what you should think about. Try it.

Television is our true god, and it drives our entire society crazy. I bet most people even here, can't disconnect, for just one week. I hate this device.

richwicks says

NDrLoR says

The broad changes are the everyday experiences now: the entrenched drug culture that knows no end and kills millions of young people every year, unwed parenthood that leads to government dependency and is responsible for no telling how much mental illness as a by-product.

I want to point out, again, this is the main source of society's mental illness:



That tool destroys more minds than you know. I have a friendly bet with anybody here, turn that off for just a week, and see how you feel. The MAJORITY of people will be in withdrawal.

Turn off the TV, don't substitute with radio, or Internet - and see how you feel after one week of not being told how you should think, and what you should think about. Try it.

Television is o...

Cloward and Pliven destroyed America.

Ending Hofare is the KEY to restoring America.

It will survive and exist, but it will exist differently than today and the past. I think a lot will entail becoming more 3rd world.

Quality of life will be degraded but our way of life won't drastically change.

The USA will be more like Mexico or Central America but not exactly like them.

There will be many similarities as far as the effectiveness of major institutions from hospitals to public schools.

And there will be even more a two class system in the USA just like in Mexico and Central America.

I see though our military not declining as much, as we'll still have the strategic forces and technology such as nuclear submarines, aircraft carriers, drones and unmanned systems, stealth fighters and bombers, satellites, 400 Minuteman missiles, etc.

I just think we won't have as much of a fighting or infantry force like we did in the second Gulf War.

.

ad says

I think a lot will entail becoming more 3rd world.

3rd World with Special Features.
Like an enormous domestic military presence and the largest, most convoluted, least integrated, intelligence apparatuses in history, all competing to crawl up our rectums and guide our 'thinking'.
It is likely that Covid was a project of DARPA et al, and Big Pharma was just the public face and possible fall guys for the op.
Pharma=Oswald.
The FBI, as a reward for entrapping a couple dozen semi-retarded 'domestic terrorists', fomenting years of the Grand Russian Hoax, actively suppressing the 1st Amendment on the internet, is shopping for a spot to build a brand new headquarters that is TWICE THE SIZE OF THE PENTAGON.

Does America deserve to survive?
My answer is “not in this form.”
If we don’t have change on two fronts (citizen decency and voting integrity) then America surviving as a fascist totalitarian empire is bad for the world, and shouldn’t be encouraged.

It's a depressing topic; dumbing down the USA by calling standards and achievement "racist", importing ignorant people from the third world to drive down wages and crowd hospitals and drive up rents, raising taxes on our savings and investments to pay for them, cheating and defrauding elections, pushing people around forcing vaccines on them, etc. are frightening.

What gives me some hope was the voter "revolution" or revolt in 2016 which elected Trump; he really was a complete outsider whose ideas were popular still.

I absolutely give no quarter to a foreigner who wants to talk USA politics with me; foreigners don't understand the USA and free speech, nor our Constitution.

What is interesting is that although the fucked up media, politicians, gay Disney assholes and whatnot seem to dislike white males, my experience is the complete opposite.
Even certified hood rat chicks from Riviera Beach Florida like me, as do Jamacian, Haitian, Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, Mexican, Colombian chicks I have met over the years.
They don't call me "racist" or anything, and they don't mind my taking them places where other "white devils" hang out.

richwicks says

this is the main source of society's mental illness:

I'm sure that contributes, but that's a beautiful TV set! So much nicer than the black plastic box school of design or I guess more recently the flat screen which has about as much personality as gravel. I still use my Panasonic with CD/VHS from 1999.

Another question to ponder; can America survive as a Constitutional Representative Republic (what's left of it) without free and honest elections?

Dholliday126 says

What is "income security"? It's not social security, which is a different output.

This is from SWIFT transaction data (almost ten years old):
The US dollar prevails as the dominant international trade currency, with a 51.9% share of the value of international currency usage in 2014. The euro is second, with a 30.5% share of the total value. The British pound is third, with a 5.4% share of the total value, followed by Asian currencies such as the Japanese yen and the Chinese yuan.
I would imagine the US is now below the 50% threshold. The report also notes: The Chinese yuan’s usage continues to grow significantly, particularly in flows between Europe and Asia-Pacific, which have increased considerably over the last two years, and where the currency is now ranked fifth. The People’s Bank of China (PBOC) demonstrates a strong commitment to promoting the internationalisation of the Chinese yuan, and the Chinese government has implemented a range of supportive policy measures.
Meanwhile, the BRICs are considering alternatives to SWIFT.

Thoughtful, brief essay worth reading ...

Existentially, America is almost at the end of the line
By Molly Slag

Looking at the American political and cultural scene, let us contemplate what I call the “Quintessential Existential Interrogatories”:

(1) Where are we?

(2) How did we get here?

(3) Where are we going?
Many know a slight variant of these questions from Paul Gauguin’s famous painting of the same name: “Where Do We Come From? What Are We? Where Are We Going?” (“D'ou Venons Nous / Que Sommes Nous / Où Allons Nous”), but these three questions crop up all over the place.

I would add a fourth question that is just as important: (4) Is there an alternative?

1. Where Are We?

We are in the age of the irrational hoax. Unlike the Piltdown Man hoax, which was clothed with an aura of credibility and, therefore, was a mere fraud, the hoaxes of Climate Change, Transgenderism, DEI, CRT, Covid Vax, White Supremacy, etc., are not just false; they are also irrational and absurd, utterly lacking any hint of credibility. Moreover, every one of these hoaxes will lead to the destruction of our middle class.

In “The Coup We Never Knew,” Victor Davis Hanson asks: “Did someone or something seize control of the United States?” He then offers the only answer possible: “We are beginning to wake up from a nightmare to a country we no longer recognize, and from a coup we never knew.”

This coup revealed itself plainly in the stolen 2020 election. Many thought that disaster was an outlier, a “one-off” that MAGA could shake off like a dog shaking off a spring shower, but the replication of that same unsavory fact pattern in the 2022 election dashed that hope. Can there be another fair national election? Some have doubts.

We live in a time of electoral fraud. We know that leftist powerbrokers stole the 2020 and 2022 national elections and that they have every intention of continuing to steal elections. Precisely because of this electoral fraud, we are being ruled without our consent.

Dennis Prager lists (and expands upon) some of the absurdities characterizing the political reality of our time, which include:

(1) Men should be allowed to compete in women’s sports.

(2) Defunding police will decrease crime.

(3) Racial segregation is antiracist.

(4) Opposition to racial segregation is racist.

(5) Diversity is strength.

(6) Free speech does not allow for hate speech.

(7) You’re not a human being until you’re born.

(8) Capitalism is evil.

(9) America is systemically racist.

Most notable is that our government approves and propagates all these hoaxes and absurdities. Victor Davis Hanson says we are in a time when our own government is destroying us, and he has detailed ten actions undertaken by the federal government intended to destroy the nation.

Currently, the federal Executive Branch has seized the legislative power for itself, enacting law through administrative regulation and executive order.

The presence in D.C. of the uniparty reaching to grasp all power reveals our process of morphing into China. Little wonder the land is suffused with Chinese spies and Chinese police stations.

2. How did we get here?

We arrived at this dreadful status quo via the left’s successful Gramscian March through the institutions of our government and our society since WWII. Victor David Hanson believes this march is complete because wokeism has infiltrated all of America’s institutions, including the workplace, education, entertainment, medicine, law, the media, and the military.

3. Where Are We Going?

We are headed toward total annihilation as a nation.

4. Is There An Alternative?

No, there is not. Forget it. It’s over; a done deed; a fait accompli…. Well… maybe not quite….

One institution survives, battered but still intact. If the original elemental polity—the family—were to rear up on its hind legs, unceremoniously yank its kids out of government school, and roar a challenge at once fearsome and desperate: “You want our children? Come and take them!” followed by the terrible snarl of the Mamma Grizzly. “You know where we live … right behind those blades of grass!”

Hearing this roar, the confused masses might yet take heart and rise up behind them and implement the Declaration’s injunction to “institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2023/02/existentially_america_is_almost_at_the_end_of_the_line.html

LEO HOHMANN: America 2023 – Sleepwalking into World War III

Excerpts from the article:

China and Russia are both in full-on war mode, mobilizing their economies, their armies and navies for World War III with America.

Notice I said “America.” Not “NATO.” NATO is America and America is NATO along with its vassal states.

NATO has always been built upon American power. The problem is America has lost its power and any that remains is largely about perception, not reality.

Once the world figures this out, it’s game over. Once they see that the Emperor has no clothes, that it’s all smoke and mirrors — and the balloon incident has started to open people’s eyes — they will be shocked at how weak America actually is.

At the same time America’s government has been corrupted, individual Americans have grown way too comfortable, living in luxury, too engrossed in games, entertainment, and other frivolous things that don’t matter, too ambivalent of things that do matter, to even see what’s happening before their very eyes.

America is in free fall, both economically and militarily. And especially morally. It’s been a gradual decline for decades but at the end things tend to move very fast and I believe we’ve entered that final death spiral.

This is very reminiscent of ancient Rome and its far-flung empire building. Rome, like America, was busy nation building abroad while ignoring the homeland. Finally it imploded from within when it realized the barbarians were not only gathering at the gates, they were inside the gates.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/02/leo-hohmann-america-2023-sleepwalking-world-war-iii/

Just as Rome became increasingly decadent prior to its collapse in 476, so goes America:

Mr. Woman of the Year – USA Today Honors Transgender State Representative
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/03/mr-woman-of-the-year-usa-today-honors-transgender-state-representative/

Not only will it survive, but there will be a reckoning.
Don't underestimate the NPCs and their willingness to go along with the new thing.
One day the new thing will be prosecuting and blaming all of those that has tried like hell to Gay down, jab to death, manipulate into financial ruin, fucked with and manipulated elections, votes, results and minds, the destroyed Media movies and music. They will sort them out, once the worm turns.

Here's the thing, the NPCs wont even admit to it, cop to it or might not even realize, they all bought into it hook line and sinker. But that wont matter because at least they will have finally recognize all of the intentional destruction. They will reject the woke institutions, the dumbing down our our education system, the entitled Thugs, Retards and Morons, that has been elevated to levels that it is a crime in some states and cities if you don't bow down and kiss their ass.

Oh a hard reckoning will be coming, and it will impress the hell out of those of us, that are fed up at this moment.
Our hands are tired and even our resentment of the current state of the union is a crime. The NPCs will smash it all down rather quickly with the same impunity that they can smash up malls and theme parks when they don't get their way.

The NPCs will turn on dime, they left Disco and Zipper pants and never looked back.

RayAmerica says

America is in free fall, both economically and militarily. And especially morally. It’s been a gradual decline for decades but at the end things tend to move very fast and I believe we’ve entered that final death spiral.

Yes, but recall America before Pearl Harbor - a decadent 1920s and depression 1930s. Japan awakened a sleeping giant. Same thing would happen again of the China-Russia alliance attacked militarily. I am sure they know this, so China will just buy politicians that keep the border open and the fentanyl flowing, export the manufacturing, and degrade US society with woke and pedo.

How's "America is in freefall militarily"? Care to expand on this statement?