patrick.net

RWSGFY says

Was it a gay thing?

I think MS-13 with all of the thuggery and Satanism is full of gay stuff. In Latin America, it is alleged culturally that you aren't considered gay as long as you always assume the dominant sexual position with passive homosexual/tranny partners. I would imagine in prison hierarchies, it is a similar ethic.

There's also the 'Soros Qualification' for the judge: the weakest, the weirdest, the most absurdly corrupted, the most morally culpable, the craziest, the most perverted etc. etc.

Allegedly, the FBI hired MS-13 to murder Seth Rich and then murdered the assassins. They are a ready and available gangster mercenary group.

There is still an MS-13 group in Santa Cruz living behind one of my friend's house. They get raided periodically, but they are still there I heard. How and why, I have no idea, except that it smacks of some kind of official 'protection'.

https://nypost.com/2025/04/30/us-news/kilmar-abrego-garcia-bragged-he-could-kill-his-wife-and-get-away-with-it-court-docs/

Kilmar Abrego Garcia bragged he could kill his wife and get away with it, she claimed in newly unearthed protective order request

Alleged MS-13 member Kilmar Abrego Garcia once boasted he could kill his wife and “no one could do anything to him,” according to a request for a motion for a protective order she filed in 2020.

“I also have a [recording] that [he] told my ex-mother-in-law that even if he kills me no one can do anything to him,” Jennifer Vasquez Sura, wrote in the document she filed with the District Court of Maryland for Prince George’s County on Aug. 3, 2020. ...

Ceffer says

I think MS-13 with all of the thuggery and Satanism is full of gay stuff. In Latin America, it is alleged cultrually that you aren't considered gay as long as you always assume the dominant sexual position with passive homosexual/tranny partners. I would imagine in prison hierarchies, it is a similar ethic.

Ancient Med viewpoint, btw. You can be the Legate if you are the pitcher, but not the catcher, that's a scandal.

DeficitHawk says

I participate here as the lonely moderate voice, in an experiment to see whether it is possible to bridge gaps. But I get discouraged

Looks like we lost @DeficitHawk

I wonder, Do we lose leftist posters because of cognitive dissonance?

His Knuckle tats are 110% MS-13, too. But libbies never let a preponderance of evidence get in the way of siding with the undesirable alien or criminal.

Onvacation says

DeficitHawk says

I participate here as the lonely moderate voice, in an experiment to see whether it is possible to bridge gaps. But I get discouraged

Looks like we lost DeficitHawk

I wonder, Do we lose leftist posters because of cognitive dissonance?

How do we know that posters such as these aren't "AI" bots? I think they're testing the bots out on various websites to calibrate them and make their responses seem more plausibly human authentic. Look at the breaking scandal over on Reddit, where certain subreddits were used to test "AI" chatbots.

I apply quotes to signify that I think it's a scam.

AmericanKulak says

His Knuckle tats are 110% MS-13, too. But libbies never let a preponderance of evidence get in the way of siding with the undesirable alien or criminal.

Honestly they just might be too dumb? Or brainwashed? I mean you're in a gang if most of your body is tattooed outside of some athletes. And they're probably still in a gang. I can't remember stories, but I believe a few pro athletes have been implicated in gang activity.

Onvacation says

wonder, Do we lose leftist posters because of cognitive dissonance?

It's happened here for a while, you know this. They come in and cannot defend their position. I swear, but outside that I try to tell the facts I know and see. Once they're caught with their pants down they leave. No accountably. I've been wrong here and have owned it. Either way it's just a website. Not losing sleep over it.

Left and right like their echo chambers. I don't think EV's are good. I do think renewable power (solar & wind) can be supplemental power, not primary but I don't want to pay for it. Let homeowners do it.

We lost the likes of Dan, Iwog, Nuttboxer over stupid shit. They were wrong on their ideas and left the site. They did have some good thoughts though. I don't get why you'd tuck and run. If you don't like the user, ignore is there. I have plenty...

Onvacation says

I wonder, Do we lose leftist posters because of cognitive dissonance?

No. You lose us because there is not much productive discourse that keeps us participating.

The topic of concern here is whether this person should get due process before being deported/incarcerated.

But no one really wants to talk about this subject. People just throw memes, and make fun of lefties. IF the topic wanders anywhere close to due process, it becomes some shitshow of whataboutisms where you say "whatabout this totally unrelated person/case I like that I dont think was treated fairly in the past", as if some historical occurrence of failure of due process is a good rationale to advocate for depriving others of due process in the future.

If you cant acknowledge that due process is warranted for people you dont like as well as people you like, then there just isn't much productive discussion to have with you. I may as well be talking to a rock, and there is nothing satisfying about the experience for me. That's why you lose our participation.

But if it makes you feel better, you can pretend I have to go hide in my basement due to my cognitive dissonance.

DeficitHawk says

If you cant acknowledge that due process is warranted for people you dont like as well as people you like

I think people here do - for Americans. It's not like we're killing them, just sending them back.

Maga_Chaos_Monkey says

DeficitHawk says
If you cant acknowledge that due process is warranted for people you dont like as well as people you like

I think people here do - for Americans. It's not like we're killing them, just sending them back.

Bingo. You're not a citizen. What do other countries do? Let us know Deficit which country allows you to stay there indefinitely or for many years illegally. I'll wait. This is the point.

Why do we have to give someone here illegally due process? He didn't follow the damn process.... Until you answer that it's hard to have a conversation on the topic. It's law. He didn't follow the process.

If I didn't follow gun laws and shot someone on my property, what happens? I don't get due process. I go to jail for having an illegal firearm. This isn't all that complicated. You follow law or you get booted or go to jail. Not much to it.

Maga_Chaos_Monkey says

DeficitHawk says

If you cant acknowledge that due process is warranted for people you dont like as well as people you like

I think people here do - for Americans. It's not like we're killing them, just sending them back.

Agreed. Although this is exactly what is heavily contested by liberals. There is a case that habeas corpus etc. remains intact as even for non-citizens, even enemy combatants, as ruled by SCOTUS. This is not as clear cut as it may seem to either side. However habeas corpus can be voided in case of an "invasion or rebellion" when public safety requires it. Given how many illegals have been pouring over the border every year, esp. during the xiden administration, invasion is a totally plausible scenario here and allows for deportations without due process. The border crisis has been setting for an invasion for many years now, like some European countries have been facing similar issues.

mell says

Although this is exactly what is heavily contested by liberals

Yes, it is what is contested.

I don't know about other countries. I know what USA does, what the courts have ruled on the topic, and I know what I PERSONALLY think should be the case as my opinion.

USA has long had due process for non-citizens, and I want it to stay that way. The courts have ruled this way, supreme court justices have explicitly said it. I referenced the cases above, not that anyone here would bother to read them.

I do understand the people who are in the process of arriving, or at the border are NOT granted due process, they may be turned away and not granted entry without process and that's fine with me too. There will naturally be a fuzzy line between the category of 'arriving' vs 'already here'.... and the courts will have to maintain that line in some way.

You may ask "Why does this stupid lefty think non-citizens should get due process?"... To me its simple, I dont trust the government sometimes. I dont want government to start using its power to 'disappear' political enemies.

If we normalize the procedure of deporting and irretrievably incarcerating people abroad without due process, there seems little to stop an administration I don't trust from 'disappearing' their enemies (citizens and all) and then saying "oops, our bad, well nothing can be done about it now".

I want due process so that when they come for me, at least there is a judge who will hear my case instead of direct shipment to the gulag with no hearing.

You may also ask: "What does this stupid lefty think is reasonable due process for immigration cases?"... To me, its pretty simple. A fact check on citizenship and immigration status in the presence of a judge, where a person has the opportunity to say to a judge "Hey, IM actually a citizen" or "Hey, I actually have legal immigration status". The judge reviews those facts and if the person does not have citizenship or legal immigration status, they rule with a deportation order.

One of the things the judges should watch out for is whether people are being selectively targeted for enforcement due to "something they said that the administration didn't like". That would violate our 1st amendment, even if it is an illegal immigrant.

DeficitHawk says

I want due process so that when they come for me, at least there is a judge who will hear my case instead of direct shipment to the gulag with no hearing.

Yeah but that's hyperbole though. They aren't shipped to Gulags, not even imprisoned (temporarily held), they are just sent home. If the border was secure and agent could keep it tight by almost any means necessary, then the few remaining illegals could get their due process and time to hear their cases. Not during and invasion though. This has been the tactic of the left for a while now, not just in the US, to flood the country with illegals and make everyone depend on them to secure future elections by any means necessary. People had enough and as long as this is an emergency, emergency powers will hold.

DeficitHawk says

everyone here is so extreme right.

Being anti-woke, anti-DEI, and keeping our own money is 'so extreme right'.

mell says

They aren't shipped to Gulags, not even imprisoned (temporarily held), they are just sent home

This guy was imprisoned. The people he was deported with were imprisoned. They are in a prison in El Salvador.

Its not hyperbole. It happened, in this very case that we are discussing here. "Maryland man"

DeficitHawk says

This guy was imprisoned.

By El Salvador, not us. Just because ES no longer fucks around with THEIR criminals anymore doesn't translate into the US government imprisoning them.

Reality can be such a bitch, sometimes.

MolotovCocktail says

Being anti-woke, anti-DEI, and keeping our own money is 'so extreme right'.

Im anti woke and anti dei.

As for keeping your own money... well, my user name is deficit hawk.... I think we need to balance our taxes against our expenditures to be fiscally responsible.. so we cant keep all of our own money without running up the deficit, which I oppose.

DeficitHawk says

The topic of concern here is whether this person should get due process before being deported/incarcerated.

Mr Hawk,

Do you believe that the "Maryland Man" did not receive due process?

It is my understanding that a court had already determined that he was an illegal alien.

yawaraf says

Do you believe that the "Maryland Man" did not receive due process?

I think he did not receive due process. As I understand, he was rounded up and deported without a deportation order from a judge.

I just want people to get a chance to stand in front of a judge and get a judges order before the administration carries out a deportation/incarceration. And the administration should follow the judges order.

MolotovCocktail says

By El Salvador, not us. Just because ES no longer fucks around with THEIR criminals anymore doesn't translate into the US government imprisoning them.

Oh come on. This is a BS argument. WE are in a contract with el salvador where we pay them to incarcerate the people we bring them. Are you seriously going to act like the us administration didnt want the people we brought them incarcerated and intentionally arrange for that outcome?

DeficitHawk says

I think he did not receive due process. As I understand, he was rounded up and deported without a deportation order from a judge.

I share your concern about a powerful federal government that could arrest and deport anyone without judicial review.

In this particular case I understand the courts already determined him to be an illegal alien. In your opinion, what else would have been necessary for his deportation to be legal?

DeficitHawk says

MolotovCocktail says

By El Salvador, not us. Just because ES no longer fucks around with THEIR criminals anymore doesn't translate into the US government imprisoning them.

Oh come on. This is a BS argument. WE are in a contract with el salvador where we pay them to incarcerate the people we bring them. Are you seriously going to act like the us administration didnt want the people we brought them incarcerated and intentionally arrange for that outcome?

That's not true. The US may treat countries (monetarily) better who take their own citizens back as they should, but they can do with their citizens whatever they want as long as they don't ship em back. Not a US or constitutional problem at all.

DeficitHawk says

The topic of concern here is whether this person should get due process before being deported/incarcerated.

He got the process he was due.

Glad to see you're still around.

Do you really think a gang affiliated illegal alien should be allowed to stay in the USA?

DeficitHawk says

I want due process so that when they come for me, at least there is a judge who will hear my case instead of direct shipment to the gulag with no hearing.

Me too.
I found it abhorrent when peaceful J6 protesters were incarcerated without due process just after a summer of violent riots where vandals who destroyed personal and government property were not even arrested.

DeficitHawk says

they rule with a deportation order.

Maryland man had a deportation order.

Otherwise he would not have been deported.

Onvacation says

DeficitHawk says

I want due process so that when they come for me, at least there is a judge who will hear my case instead of direct shipment to the gulag with no hearing.

Me too.
I found it abhorrent when peaceful J6 protesters were incarcerated without due process just after a summer of violent riots where vandals who destroyed personal and government property were not even arrested.

This was my initial response as well. If you're so concerned about due process, where is the outrage for the hundreds of FBI entrapped J6 victims Crocodile tears for woman beating drug messicans, but no sympathy for your own countrymen, and no concern for how Ashley Babbit was murdered by being shot in the back. Your selective and specious arguments have no credibility with me.

yawaraf says

DeficitHawk says

I think he did not receive due process. As I understand, he was rounded up and deported without a deportation order from a judge.

I share your concern about a powerful federal government that could arrest and deport anyone without judicial review.

In this particular case I understand the courts already determined him to be an illegal alien. In your opinion, what else would have been necessary for his deportation to be legal?

A court order to deport.

Onvacation says

Maryland man had a deportation order.

No, he didnt.

stereotomy says

where is the outrage for the hundreds of FBI entrapped J6 victims

Ah of course. Here is the whataboutism.

So, lets say there was a breakdown of due process in some prior case that you care deeply about. In your mind, does that mean that we should advocate to keep depriving more people of due process out of vengeance? Or does it mean we should correct the problems that failed to deliver due process?

There are many people working their way through the criminal justice system for all sorts of crimes. I can only imagine that our system is not perfect. some people probably wait too long for trial, and that goes against our right to a speedy trial. I don't contest that it has and probably will happen again. But I would not use that as a justification to do it intentionally!

These problems should be corrected. Not celebrated. It seems like you want to point to some past case where you think there was not due process, and turn that into a reason why we should intentionally deprive someone else!

If you were robbed, does it give you the right to rob others? Is that justice? I just don't understand the logic of these whataboutisms.

If you are after vengeance for your perceived slights, and will abandon our constitution to get it, that's a position I cant sympathize with.

DeficitHawk says

I just want people to get a chance to stand in front of a judge and get a judges order before the administration carries out a deportation/incarceration.

Why? It's not hard to provide a birth certificate. Everyone gets one or can call the hospital and get a duplicate. That was his due process. Or have records of gaining citizenship. He clearly had neither. The left needs to move on from this. Digging a hole with no ladder is what you're doing.

You don't get due process if you're not a legal citizen. He went to court and could not prove citizenship. Was in a violent gang. Even if wrong he's got to go. Sorry. Don't do illegal shit like beat a woman. I'd send ass holes like that who are US citizens to El Salvador without due process. Fuck 'em.

Whattabout murder?
Whattabout violations of Habeas corpus not seen since the 1860's?

Is that the only defense? - "I don't care or acknowledge this because it doesn't futher my narrative?"

Yes complain you're being dismissed while dismissing all contrary views.

Pfft.

WookieMan says

It's not hard to provide a birth certificate.

Its not hard, i agree. The point is I dont want the arresting officer, or whomever is in charge of enforcement of the law to ALSO be the decider of guilt and the decider of the sentence. That should be done by a judge. That is the due process that SHOULD have happened.

None of this is hard at all. Go to the judge, make the case, get a decision, follow the decision. Not hard.

WookieMan says

You don't get due process if you're not a legal citizen

You keep saying this, but you are wrong. What you are saying is untrue. Ive cited the supreme court decisions, and quoted the relevant text from them. Dont read them if you dont want to... but it wont change the fact.

Due process IS afforded to non citizens, even if illegal. Only exceptions are around people in the process of entry, "Arriving" immigrants can be turned away without due process.

This individual had been here many years. He was not "arriving"... he was "already here". He IS entitled due process, and the supreme court has ruled so in many cases!

Please stop repeating a falsehood!!

stereotomy says

Whattabout murder?

This is a thread called "Maryland man".

I really can not keep up with 100 random people's whattaboutisms on the various topics they each individually care about. If you want to discuss with me here, discuss the topic at hand.

If you want to discuss a different topic, go make a thread about it.

DeficitHawk says

This individual had been here many years. He was not "arriving"... he was "already here". He IS entitled due process, and the supreme court has ruled so in many cases!

He had been in front of judges before. Not sure your point. Gang member, spouse beater and probably more. I don't want him here. Do you? He wasn't here legally. I don't care what some lower court judge said. If I go to France and get caught punching a woman, what do you think is going to happen if I'm not a citizen? Goodbye. That's how every country does it.

Question. Honest answer please. You think this guy was good for American society? He wasn't a citizen. Move on from it dude.

DeficitHawk says

I really can not keep up with 100 random people's whattaboutisms on the various topics they each individually care about.

Boo hoo - I whattabout people who start the whole whattabout shit. Don't like the shoe on the other foot? How quaint and entirely predictable of you.

DeficitHawk says

Oh come on. This is a BS argument. WE are in a contract with el salvador where we pay them to incarcerate the people we bring them. Are you seriously going to act like the us administration didnt want the people we brought them incarcerated and intentionally arrange for that outcome?

Who cares? It all falls under FOREIGN POLICY - which no judge has any authority on, period.

.

DeficitHawk says

Due process IS afforded to non citizens,

Deportation is an administrative procedure, not a criminal one. The level of due process deportees get is a lot less as a result.