patrick.net

RWSGFY says

Eh? I have an old RWD sedan which is on par with base RWD Model3 performance-wise (260 hp, 5.8 sec to 60, 145 mph top speed). I don't see it as challenging to drive. Also I've driven Model 3 in both RWD and AWD spec and Model Y LR AWD and again didn't have my socks blown off. These are not Ferraris for sure. Not even V8 Mustangs as far as getting yourself into trouble goes. You can't even disable the electronic nannies. So no, not buying the "supercar in Corolla garb" spin.

They are ugly for sure. I get people that like muscle cars because sure there's power, but they look cool. Not my jam, but I get people liking the looks. It's kind of like art.

Haven't had a speeding ticket or traffic accident since I was 18. I like big cars and I cannot lie. I'm the guy you are pissed at going the exact speed limit.

Here in IL there are less cops pulling people over. I respect them but don't trust them at all. I don't need a fast car for some mid-life crisis. Building a house. Close 12/3 on the construction loan FINALLY. I would not recommend custom, but I would not recommend buying a corporate built shit shack. The payoff will be good though for us. I finally get my recording studio. Kids get their own bedrooms. Not EV related, but Friday was a big day (yesterday). That's my midlife crisis buy.

My baseline 2021 Model Y is 0-60 in 4.4 sec. I use it to impress people I take on a demo drive. There are other fast cars, most are electric:

https://www.carfax.com/blog/fastest-sedans

Several of these are $100K or more. Out-the-door price on a new Model Y is under $50K without $7500 tax credit.
https://www.tesla.com/modely/design#payment

rocketjoe79 says

My baseline 2021 Model Y is 0-60 in 4.4 sec. I use it to impress people I take on a demo drive. There are other fast cars, most are electric:

https://www.carfax.com/blog/fastest-sedans

Several of these are $100K or more. Out-the-door price on a new Model Y is under $50K without $7500 tax credit.
https://www.tesla.com/modely/design#payment

Cool. Or I can buy an SUV that has utility and space for 7 people comfortably. EV's don't work for families. Not even a discussion. Enjoy zipping around and I'll hook up a 9k lbs camper and have some cheap fun for less all in than a Model Y.

So much whinging. The Tesla Model X comes in 6 and 7 seat configurations. If you don't like Muh Gullwings, then the Hyundai Ioniq 9 and the Kia EV9 come in a more conventional looking SUV package. Towing in these models is limited to 5000 lbs, so you can't pull a monster RV. That said should be sufficient for WookieMan's daily towing needs. Some even have 120v power outlets so you can convert from gas guzzling mowers/trimmers. Range is 300+ miles. That said, YMMV.

EBGuy says

So much whinging. The Tesla Model X comes in 6 and 7 seat configurations. If you don't like Muh Gullwings, then the Hyundai Ioniq 9 and the Kia EV9 come in a more conventional looking SUV package. Towing in these models is limited to 5000 lbs, so you can't pull a monster RV. That said should be sufficient for WookieMan's daily towing needs. Some even have 120v power outlets so you can convert from gas guzzling mowers/trimmers. Range is 300+ miles. That said, YMMV.

I have 3 boys my friend. They will all be 6'3" plus. I'm the runt in my family lineage at that height. So they might be 6'5" or more. No Tesla will work. I've done my research. Then carpooling with other kids that will be somewhat tall. I just took 5 kids this morning for basketball and not a chance in hell we'd all fit in a Tesla with school bag and athletic bag.

It's not whining, it's reality. I'm not dropping $100k+ as Al Sharpton posted. I can get an ICE for a fraction of the cost that's BIGGER than what he posted. Tows 9-10k. Fits the humans I have to deal with. No EV provides that. If an EV can town 9K, I'm stopping every 50-75 miles in areas that may not have chargers. My needs are not everyones, but I don't think most here have kids unless they're lurkers and don't post.

RWSGFY says

Eh? I have an old RWD sedan which is on par with base RWD Model3 performance-wise (260 hp, 5.8 sec to 60, 145 mph top speed).

The Model 3 Performance has a 0-60 at 2.9 sec. That is night and day difference. My long range Y does it in 4.4 seconds. .

Most people spending extra money to buy muscle cars and sports cars are typically car enthusiasts and know what they are getting. Some people spend thousands of dollars on standard ICE cars for mod packages just to shave half a second on acceleration because it is so noticable. Now imagine shaving nearly 4 seconds off your old RWD sedan!

Soccer and Wine moms getting a Tesla for a fraction of the cost of sports cars can sometimes let the cars get away from them.

socal2 says

Soccer and Wine moms getting a Tesla for a fraction of the cost of sports cars can sometimes let the cars get away from them.

So then why make that car? That's 50% plus of the population that will drive it. Probably closer to 70% as I only know personally one man that drives one. It's all chicks.

Not knocking you, but men just don't drive them. They are ugly. No utility if you have kids or do stuff. Yet to ever be sold on any model EV. Not picking on Tesla. My car makes any Tesla or other EV maker look gay. I can drive anywhere off road with 8 passengers. Maybe when the kids are out of the house and Tesla comes up with a full sized SUV not ugly car I'd think about it.

Hahahaha...Newsom outright declares that the EV bullshit is all political, nothing more:

DOGEWontAmountToShit says

Hahahaha...Newsom outright declares that the EV bullshit is entirely political, nothing more:

DOGEWontAmountToShit says

Hahahaha...Newsom outright declares that the EV bullshit is entirely political, nothing more:

WookieMan says

Not knocking you, but men just don't drive them

74% of Tesla drivers are male.

https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2018/11/tesla-owner-demographics/#:~:text=Tesla%20owner%20demographics%3A%20gender,-We%20looked%20at&text=Overall%2C%20Tesla%20owners%20skew%2074,%25%20female%2C%2074%25%20male.

WookieMan says

No utility if you have kids or do stuff.

There is plenty of room for my two H.S. aged kids, wife and even mother in law.

Besides, my wife's SUV is the main car to schlep kids and groceries around and for long road trips.

My Tesla is for fun. I am the only person in my car 95% of my driving.

Why buy a more expensive, slower, less safe and less fun car to drive around town?

socal2 says

RWSGFY says

Eh? I have an old RWD sedan which is on par with base RWD Model3 performance-wise (260 hp, 5.8 sec to 60, 145 mph top speed).

The Model 3 Performance has a 0-60 at 2.9 sec. That is night and day difference. My long range Y does it in 4.4 seconds. .

Most people spending extra money to buy muscle cars and sports cars are typically car enthusiasts and know what they are getting. Some people spend thousands of dollars on standard ICE cars for mod packages just to shave half a second on acceleration because it is so noticable. Now imagine shaving nearly 4 seconds off your old RWD sedan!

Soccer and Wine moms getting a Tesla for a fraction of the cost of sports cars can sometimes let the cars get away from them.

Let's not move the goalposts: my humble sedan came into picture as reaction to the assertion that even lowes-spec Teslas are supercars and hence it's normal for their drivers to kill themselves left and right. My sedan is exact performance equivalent of RWD Model 3. And it's not at all dangerous despite comparatively ancient electronics.

Also, while I understand how something like 1st gen Viper with no electronic nannies or Modern V8 Mustang, Camaro or Corvette with nannies disabled can get away from an inexperienced driver when the latter floors it, top-line Teslas are AWD and nannies can't be disabled. You floor it and it doesn't fishtail all over the road even on wet or ice/snow (I drove a rental MY LR to Kirkwood and Heavenly in winter conditions) whereas that Viper would easily swap ends even on dry asphalt. Teslas are pretty idiot-proof when it comes to traction issues related to power/torque. Not only traction and torque vectoring is controlled, the fucking thing can steer too!

So whatever it is, it's not power/torque issue.

His official rationale is "market share". Teslas have already been stripped of the subsidies under the original rule after reaching certain number of units. Then Bidet's "inflation reduction act" brought the blanket subsidy back (and accelerated inflation, lol).

RWSGFY says

Let's not move the goalposts:

That's what he does.

RWSGFY says

So whatever it is, it's not power/torque issue.

Even the FUD article that is generating all these headlines said it was driver's behavior which was primarily responsible and nothing innate with Tesla engineering or manufacturing of the vehicles.

I expect we will continue to see loads more anti-Tesla and anti-Elon hit pieces like this in the coming months now he is so hitched with Trump.

RWSGFY says

Let's not move the goalposts: my humble sedan came into picture as reaction to the assertion that even lowes-spec Teslas are supercars and hence it's normal for their drivers to kill themselves left and right. My sedan is exact performance equivalent of RWD Model 3. And it's not at all dangerous despite comparatively ancient electronics.

To reach those speeds in your ICE sedan requires massive intention (flooring it) and you will be hyper aware with the engine noise and quick gear changing.

Tesla's can quickly reach those speeds by barely leaning on the peddle and it is very quiet.

So maybe that makes Tesla's more dangerous to some who are not used to having that much power so easily available?

socal2 says

Why buy a more expensive, slower, less safe and less fun car to drive around town?

My car is 100% safer than any Tesla model. Just ride a bike if you're going 25mph. There are other options. Not everyone lives in a gay city which is what most are. My car was cheaper than any model of Tesla inflation adjusted. Bigger. And more UTILITY.

I don't care about speed. I don't drive recklessly. A Tesla is the antithesis to this.

Also I didn't qualify this. It's women and gay men that drive Teslas. So you're right about 70% women.

socal2 says

There is plenty of room for my two H.S. aged kids, wife and even mother in law.

All of whom are midgets apparently. Glad you can fit them and lose 100 miles due to weight.

socal2 says

RWSGFY says

Let's not move the goalposts: my humble sedan came into picture as reaction to the assertion that even lowes-spec Teslas are supercars and hence it's normal for their drivers to kill themselves left and right. My sedan is exact performance equivalent of RWD Model 3. And it's not at all dangerous despite comparatively ancient electronics.

To reach those speeds in your ICE sedan requires massive intention (flooring it) and you will be hyper aware with the engine noise and quick gear changing.

Tesla's can quickly reach those speeds by barely leaning on the peddle and it is very quiet.

So maybe that makes Tesla's more dangerous to some who are not used to having that much power so easily available?

What "these speeds"? If you are in traffic going 20-30 over when everybody goes +10 wil be immediately noticeable, so not buying the unawares argument. And if you are on an empty freeway you're not automatically killing yiurself by just doing 100-120. I sometimes do 100+ in a fucking full-size truck. (BTW, at speed the most of the noise is from the tires, not engine).Heck, I did 145 in Nevada once to check the top speed of then new to me car and didn't notice any drama.

What if all the excessive death are from the battery fires and hard-to-open doors?

RWSGFY says

What if all the excessive death are from the battery fires and hard-to-open doors?

My guess is reliance on the sensors with side impact. You can't stop a t-bone crash if someone blows a stop sign/light. Can't stop a sleepy/drunk/texting driver for head on impact without putting you in the ditch or on a city sidewalk mowing people over or wrapping around a light pole. Then you start on fire potentially and cannot get out.

I don't like driving road trips, but 300-400 miles, cool I can deal. I've fallen asleep on two trips and almost crashed, so I get the benefit of Tesla there on highways. But in rural areas people blowing stop signs is a massive problem. Especially when corn is up. No car sensor isn't gonna save you.

My t-bone accident a Tesla couldn't have stopped. Fortunately only 35mph, likely less as when I saw the bitch make her move I slammed on the brakes. I had the heavier car and completely tore off the back end of her car. If I didn't slam the brakes the passenger would have been in a world of hurt or dead. I have no clue if they make them anymore, never buy a Chevy Malibu. I hit her with a Buick.

Point of this novel is I don't trust electronics. I use them, but not for other people's stupidity. I use my eyes and ears. Wasn't my fault on my only accident, but it could have been worse for them. I've avoided probably 40-50 accidents commuting to and around Chicago. I'll trust me, not computers/sensors.

And yes Socal I do know you can drive Tesla like a standard car. We'll actually have a charging outlet in the new house. I'm not anti, it's just not for my uses. Get me one under $80k that can tow 5-9k lbs with at least 350 range and I'll likely be a buyer. I'm not seeing that happening. The reason Pepsi is using the cyber semi or whatever it's called is because they have shorter trailers for distribution. So the mass of the batteries doesn't matter. Your standard 52' (I believe) trailer would be likely overweight fully loaded. They're short range beer truck, soda, food with shorter trailers type trucks.

EV's have massive limitations and there's nothing you can do outside of adding more battery capacity $$$$$$$$. So I'm out for now.

DOGEWontAmountToShit says

DOGEWontAmountToShit says

Hahahaha...Newsom outright declares that the EV bullshit is entirely political, nothing more:

I've said it before. They're losing the MFT revenue. EV's actually are a massive gain for my family. Gives my wife work. 30-40% increase in income this year. A gain that most families don't see in a year of overall income. Keep buying them.

This EV thing is at a breaking point. Wear and tear on roads and they're not paying for it via fuel taxes. They're heavy. An EV will be more expensive than an ICE car once factoring overall purchase costs and new taxes coming your way. Enjoy the wild west for now EV owners. Times are charging errr I meant changing.

WookieMan says

Wear and tear on roads and they're not paying for it via fuel taxes. They're heavy.

Nope.....at least not Teslas who have much better battery/drive train management and doesn't require huge battery packs like the other EV makers.

- Tesla Model Y weighs between 4,154 and 4,404 lbs
- Ford Explorer weighs between 4,344 to 5,000 lbs

- Tesla Model 3 weighs between 3,862 to 4,054 lbs
- Toyota Camry weighs between 3,450 to 3,682 lbs

socal2 says

WookieMan says

Wear and tear on roads and they're not paying for it via fuel taxes. They're heavy.

Nope.....at least not Teslas who have much better battery/drive train management and doesn't require huge battery packs like the other EV makers.

- Tesla Model Y weighs between 4,154 and 4,404 lbs

Y is a crossover best case. My Armada is ~5,600lbs. Full sized and tows 9k lbs. 350 miles without stopping. Yes, I'm heavier, bigger, more utility and yup, I pay for that road.

You still prove my point. They are heavier cars and pay $0 in gas taxes. Now think of the coal being transported and the gas taxes your not paying for that power plant to get the coal there. Mell knows his biotech, I don't. So I don't challenge him. You're out of your element on this topic Socal/Donny.

RWSGFY says

What if all the excessive death are from the battery fires and hard-to-open doors?

Then the FUD report would be harping this claim to the moon and back.........instead of correctly reporting that excess deaths were due to driver behavior.

WookieMan says

Now think of the coal being transported and the gas taxes your not paying for that power plant to get the coal there.

Think of all the wear and tear (and traffic gridlock) of tens of thousands of heavy gas tanker trucks driving all over our roads every single day to deliver gas to thousands of gas stations.

socal2 says

driver behavior.

Blame the human barbecues. They will eventually recycle the bodies for the lithium.

socal2 says

89   socal2   💰tip   ignore (5)   2024 Nov 26, 12:25pm    share   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag      
WookieMan says

Now think of the coal being transported and the gas taxes your not paying for that power plant to get the coal there.

Think of all the wear and tear (and traffic gridlock) of tens of thousands of heavy gas tanker trucks driving all over our roads every single day to deliver gas to thousands of gas stations.

They pay for it in gas tax and tolls.... EV's need to be taxed. This isn't even a debate. 4-5k lbs for an ICE F-150. 6.8k lbs for a Cyber Truck. The CT pays ZERO in taxes and can get a business write off. That money needs to be paid or your roads as shitty as they already are will get worse. I know this topic. Heavier cars and trucks paying no taxes will destroy your roads.

I'm 100% not wrong on this topic. How did your Tesla get shipped? On a huge car caravan that sucks gas but at least pays taxes. Roads are expensive AF. Another reason I'll own a beefy car that can handle shit roads. You EV guys are shooting yourselfs in the foot. Get a head of it before government tells you what you have to pay. You can get the number lower now. Especially in CA.

Thousands of new cars are rusting in a parking lot in Germany, no one is buying them anymore.

In the German city of Essen, about 6,000 new cars have filled a parking lot due to high prices and problems with the infrastructure for electric cars.

Among the abandoned cars are models of German auto brands Volkswagen and Audi. According to the employees of the site, the cars have been idle for more than six months.

“I have never encountered anything like this before, although I have been working here for more than 10 years.

Cars are only brought in, but almost no one drives them. People are not ready to pay such money for an electric car, and the development of charging stations and limited driving range scare off buyers," said one of the workers.

-> The government imposed the green agenda, now the carmaker go bankrupt …

https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1861465530600722579

A seven seat Tesla Model X:



Versus
Seven seat Sequoia (makes the fifth man get into the third row):

Thousands of new cars are rusting in a parking lot in Germany, no one is buying them anymore.

In the German city of Essen, about 6,000 new cars have filled a parking lot due to high prices and problems with the infrastructure for electric cars.

Among the abandoned cars are models of German auto brands Volkswagen and Audi. According to the employees of the site, the cars have been idle for more than six months.

“I have never encountered anything like this before, although I have been working here for more than 10 years.

Cars are only brought in, but almost no one drives them. People are not ready to pay such money for an electric car, and the development of charging stations and limited driving range scare off buyers," said one of the workers.

-> The government imposed the green agenda, now the carmaker go bankrupt …

https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1861465530600722579

Thousands of new cars are rusting in a parking lot in Germany, no one is buying them anymore.

In the German city of Essen, about 6,000 new cars have filled a parking lot due to high prices and problems with the infrastructure for electric cars.

Among the abandoned cars are models of German auto brands Volkswagen and Audi. According to the employees of the site, the cars have been idle for more than six months.

“I have never encountered anything like this before, although I have been working here for more than 10 years.

Cars are only brought in, but almost no one drives them. People are not ready to pay such money for an electric car, and the development of charging stations and limited driving range scare off buyers," said one of the workers.

-> The government imposed the green agenda, now the carmaker go bankrupt …

https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1861465530600722579

EBGuy says

A seven seat Tesla Model X:



Versus
Seven seat Sequoia (makes the fifth man get into the third row):

Nice try: Sequoia is available with a 2nd row bench making it a 8-pax vehicle. And, unlike Tesla, actual adults can ride in the 3rd.

RWSGFY says

EBGuy says

A seven seat Tesla Model X:



Versus
Seven seat Sequoia (makes the fifth man get into the third row):

Nice try: Sequoia is available with a 2nd row bench making it a 8-pax vehicle. And, unlike Tesla, actual adults can ride in the 3rd.

lol, right. There's a bench option on the Sequoia, but even with captains chairs it's a better car. Who the hell is fitting in any of the back rows at all on the Tesla especially the 3rd row. I'm 6'3" and my kids will hit that or taller. You're clearly a shorter guy EBguy. The 3rd row literally has no leg room. And middle row I'd be on top of other passengers in the Tesla. I don't know that my hips would even fit in any of those seats for more than 20 minutes.

Bad comparison is all I'll say. There's a lever on the middle row anyway to the back on the Sequoia. Not that difficult unless retarded. Just step in and sit in the 3rd row. Either way I'm not sitting bitch in either car 2nd or 3rd row. 3rd row on the Sequoia clearly has more leg room. Model X you cannot even see the 3rd row floor.

Also, attach a trailer with 5 people and gear. You might get 100 miles. I could go 300 miles and not stop with the Sequoia up to central Wisconsin from my home. Oh and I could probably tow 3k-5k lbs best case. Not 7k-9k lbs.

socal2 says

My long range Y does it in 4.4 seconds. .

Most people spending extra money to buy muscle cars and sports cars are typically car enthusiasts and know what they are getting. Some people spend thousands of dollars on standard ICE cars for mod packages just to shave half a second on acceleration because it is so noticable.

My B58 Straight-6 engine powered BMW also does 0-60 in that time range, and can run well over 400 miles on a tank of gas (while keeping heat on full blast in winter) then takes only 5min to gas up before repeating. The only times I can push the gas pedal all the way are (1) highway merging, from on-ramp 30mph to 80mph speeding ticket risk takes only about 4 seconds each time; (2) passing other vehicles on two-lane roads (i.e. momentarily on the other side of the dotted median). There is very little chance of doing either in a Tesla or any other battery EV, because the limited range of battery EV means it won't go on road trips, and the high probability of a fiery death in case of any collision damaging lithium battery would dissuade one from trying to pass on dotted median while driving a battery EV.

BTW, I would't call driving any Tesla fun, simply due to the harsh ride quality.