patrick.net

My Tesla is hell of fun to drive I don’t dispute it. The instant torque is addictive. It puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. How much does that worth? Can anyone put a dollar amount on this?

I already shared what I was looking to buy at the time. Let’s compare apples to apples. Which $77k car, which doesn’t cost money to fuel (free supercharging for life), can do 0-60 in 4.2 sec, fun to drive, has air suspensions (something people will appreciate as you get older) with advanced hitech and autopilot?

With respect to status, you have no clue what it means in the Bay Area. Making $500/year ain’t 💩. Maybe it is a lot of money for your area. Driving a Tesla ain’t 💩. Maybe it is a status for your area. When half of the people drive one, there’s no status.

If I want status, I’d live in Atherton, or Hillsborough, or Los Altos Hills, or Palo Alto. In fact, I’ve thought about it for the sake of my daughter to be in a different sphere of friends. I asked her about it. She said she likes her friends here. Doesn’t want to move.

Eman says

Making $500/year ain’t 💩. Maybe it is a lot of money for your area. Driving a Tesla ain’t 💩. Maybe it is a status for your area. When half of the people drive one, there’s no status.

You still are missing the point. You are not living in reality. Your reality is going to come crumbling down. When was the last time you left CA, again? You live in over leveraged moron land. No one can afford those cars and aren't making $500k. You might be which is awesome. I do that in a land where $80k is a good family income and so is most of the country. I live modestly because I like where I'm at and there's no shit on the street and the people are amazing.

Just admit you haven't left CA in years. Name a spot you traveled? I'll post a screen shot at Bozeman/Yellowstone airport tomorrow if there's no delays in the afternoon and they hate Californians moving there. You don't get out of CA enough and live in a weird echo chamber you think is normal. Model 3 could maybe get by as an upper end car, but all other models are luxury cars.

CA is a pinkies up, yuppie state. It's not jealousy either. It's observing stupidity on my visits. I can't recall what model you have. Hopefully an X and you're writing it off the RE business. Much bigger tax incentive than other models besides Cyber Truck now. $7,500 is a joke on a $70k car. Again I'd take a $50k hybrid, invest the difference that pays me money and STILL pay $0 in gas. So I'm not saving, I'm making money. You're losing money owning a Tesla. Enjoy it I suppose, I'm not of that mindset.

Obviously I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree overall. Oh well. But I genuinely want to know when and where was the last time you've left CA for travel? It does matter because I think people do take your RE opinion at face value. I have. I just don't think you know the rest of the country. If you love it, get to know it dude. I get RE is scalable anywhere, but your take on cars is some CA disinformation in my opinion.

EV charging station in lovely Alaska. Look ma! No waiting like in Chicago!

WookieMan says

Question. How often to you leave CA? I think a lot of Californians have a distorted view of what the country is and should be.

Trust me - you don't want anything California is offering other than our perfect weather, natural beauty and Tesla!

I travel about every other week in the Western half of the US for work (Northern California, Oregon, Nevada, Idaho, Utah, Arizona, Montana) and a couple East Coast trips a year. I grew up in the Midwest and go back home to visit frequently. Yes, California is Tesla Mecca because Tesla was founded here and there are alot of rich early adopters in the Bay Area that could afford them 10 years ago and were attracted to the perceived greenness of the car.

But Tesla's are now much more affordable instead of just being a rich man's toy and will only get cheaper as they continue to ramp production and introduce the Model 2. People like me (who don't care about climate change) can now afford them and we get them because they are a total blast to drive.

I convinced one of my burly aftermarket sales guy who covers heavy equipment in the water industry in the Pacific NW to get a Model Y last year and he loves it. He gets some grief from some of his rural customers until they drive it.

Alot of my Montana guys at work are interested in the Cybertruck which will be a perfect work truck for around town business.

No need to force EV adoption with incentives, I think it will continue to come along naturally thanks to the amazing engineering at Tesla.

@socal2, you own your own business?

socal2 says

No need to force EV adoption with incentives, I think it will continue to come along naturally thanks to the amazing engineering at Tesla.

Correct. But one of those innovations will be a solid-state battery or other battery tech that is an improvement on Lithium-Ion. That will make current Lithium Ion powered cars a nonstarter in the used car market. Not a problem if you had your lithium ion for 10 years of use, but not so good if you bought the last model year of the lithium-ion power.

GNL says

socal2, you own your own business?

No - I manage the West Region for a large water technology and infrastructure company. I was referring to "my guys" as my sales engineers who cover the territory and travel by car frequently. When I first started here about 3 years ago, I was the "new" senior guy they hired from SoCal and I'm visiting branches in Montana and Idaho talking up Tesla and surfing and they all thought I was a liberal California douche until they got to know my politics and drive my car!

HeadSet says

socal2 says

No need to force EV adoption with incentives, I think it will continue to come along naturally thanks to the amazing engineering at Tesla.

Correct. But one of those innovations will be a solid-state battery or other battery tech that is an improvement on Lithium-Ion. That will make current Lithium Ion powered cars a nonstarter in the used car market. Not a problem if you had your lithium ion for 10 years of use, but not so good if you bought the last model year of the lithium-ion power.

At that point it may make sense to build retrofit packs for some of the EVs with high production figures and make solid state conversion batteries/controllers that will extend the life of the appliances.

socal2 says

Alot of my Montana guys at work are interested in the Cybertruck which will be a perfect work truck for around town business.

Where? Was just there this time last year roughly. Didn't see one Tesla. Was in Bozeman, Belgrade, Ennis, Livingston, Missoula and Big Sky (yuppieville). I've been in summer and winter for about a decade visiting every year. Never have seen a Tesla. Cyber trucks are obviously delivering at this point. I bet I don't see one. About the only thing you do is drive in MT. We'll see.

My point has been you CA guys are in a high cost of living area. So seeing a Tesla isn't a big deal because wages have to match the high cost of living. Tesla is reaching market saturation as well. Men want to wrench on a car. Not drive a golf cart. I actually do drive a golf cart. I like Musk as a person without knowing him. They're fun to drive, but so are a lot of other cars at lower prices. Depends on your needs. I need utility and Tesla has yet to provide that. It's just a zippy car that you pay double for than any similar size/model of car.

I'll take my bigger car and gas all day. It just makes more sense and is still cheaper. Enjoy a Tesla. There's a tidal wave of taxes and fees coming. You've been warned. You know the water industry and I'd listen to your input. Your fees whether it be at a charging station, your home with increased rates on electric based on registration or a flat out 4 figure tax annually when you renew is coming. They're coming for you. We don't have the grid. Especially CA. It's not your fault but your roads suck. Every EV takes away road taxes (MFT).

I've yet to see a user deny that Tesla is a good car. We're talking price, utility, range, charging, etc. If you drive 10 miles a day congrats on living close to work. That's not sarcasm either. A Tesla works for you. It doesn't for 70%+ of the population. They either can't afford it or need more utility. It's a novelty car.

WookieMan says

For where a Tesla is best operated, it makes no sense to spend $20k+ versus comparable cars. Hell they don't even hold a charge in half the country this time of year. It's fun to drive and status. Plain and simple. It's not an argument. Just would appreciate owners would stop lying and just own up to their insecurities.

Yup.

Need innovation like this. This is what Tesla envisioned and researched about "ambient energy" harvesting. Just need to refine and scale this up

https://news.mit.edu/2024/self-powered-sensor-harvests-magnetic-energy-0118

AD says

Need innovation like this. This is what Tesla envisioned and researched about "ambient energy" harvesting. Just need to refine and scale this up

https://news.mit.edu/2024/self-powered-sensor-harvests-magnetic-energy-0118

I had a pocket compass that did that. It harvested the "ambient energy" of the Earth's magnetic field to spin a needle to point north. I also built a "crystal radio" as a kid that pulled "ambient energy" from the strongest local radio broadcast to power listening to the station I chose (1920's tech). My point is that "ambient energy" is only good for very low power devices.

It took three long years for Sickness Psychosis to wane. Eventually, enough people figured out that the sickness was mostly in the mind – and that wearing “masks” wasn’t the cure for it.

EV Fever seems to be following a similar trajectory. Finally. It may now be at the point that “masking” was at about two years ago. As in, people are getting over it. And so, apparently, is the stock market.

Tesla stock is down 15 percent, representing a $94 billion loss so far. Bloomberg News styles this a “reality check as EV winter sets in.” The Financial Post says 2024 is the company’s “worst start to any year – ever.”

GNL says

Tesla stock is down 15 percent, representing a $94 billion loss so far. Bloomberg News styles this a “reality check as EV winter sets in.” The Financial Post says 2024 is the company’s “worst start to any year – ever.”

yeah as the EV mania has waned ....so its steady growth from here on out ...

just look at retail stocks which have cooled down after the COVID consumer mania ... Best Buy all time high of about $137 was in late 2021, now it is around $73...

China exports have suffered a lot ...and its economy is in bad shape

...

...

HeadSet says

My point is

Just need more creativity and imagination to produce innovation as far as scaling up and advancing already existing technology within physics constraints like first law of thermodynamics ... material science and material engineering is most of the answer to this

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/easy-to-build-tesla-generator-free-energy-magnetic-capacitor--514395588692187043/

https://www.greenoptimistic.com/tesla-generator/

.

GNL says

Tesla stock is down 15 percent, representing a $94 billion loss so far. Bloomberg News styles this a “reality check as EV winter sets in.” The Financial Post says 2024 is the company’s “worst start to any year – ever.”

The other OEM EV's are in trouble for sure. Tesla will be the last man standing as they are the only ones that have figured out how to make EV's at a profit. Their manufacturing/technology and battery production lead is unassailable. So Tesla has huge margins and can afford to drop their prices this past year to make up for higher interest rates and it's absolutely killing the old dinosaur OEM's trying to make EV's. So they are all backing away and bad mouthing it to the finance media.

Q4 earnings came out today and expect big drop in stock price tomorrow because moron CNBC finance media don't understand anything and hate Elon Musk.

I am buying MOAR at the dip.

I do like Tesla despite what seems like constant bashing from me. It’s a regional car that’s expensive compared to alternatives. They’re nearing market saturation. It doesn’t save money. Not green. Doesn’t work well in rural areas which is about 80% of America. It’s simply fun to drive and that’s it.

I don’t like stock predictions but I don’t see how Tesla can continue to sustain.

As I’ve said a day of reckoning is coming. This is from a deep blue green tard state/city…. https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/depts/COFA/OtherReports/MFT.pdf

I had an auto mechanic saying he's all for every car being electric one day.
By time I told him all of the reasons why they wont be, he was convinced otherwise. He tried to stop me, thinking the only negative thing I was going to say, is how hard the rare earth materials are to come by. But that one is the last one on my list. As we have 10 times more than China does, but it's locked up in National Parks like Yellow Stone.

It's a nice technology, that if it wasn't being shoe horned, it would be much more stable and practical. If you like electric cars, then you should get an electric car. They should not be subsidized, nor should every model be a spying smart luxury car.

The day electric cars become the only means, driving will no longer be a privilege but a class. A class that most people wont be a part of. They will dictate who gets to have or not have a car.

Tenpoundbass says

It's a nice technology, that if it wasn't being shoe horned, it would be much more stable and practical. If you like electric cars, then you should get an electric car. They should not be subsidized, nor should every model be a spying smart luxury car.

No disagreement there.

WookieMan says

I keep my golf cart parked outside, 20' from the house at closest. If it burns all I can do is let the battery burn the son of a bitch. Oh well. Better than my house and I technically wouldn't even need to call the fire department. I know the risk with an electric cart.

Swap out the lithium batteries for AGM batteries.

zzyzzx says

WookieMan says

I keep my golf cart parked outside, 20' from the house at closest. If it burns all I can do is let the battery burn the son of a bitch. Oh well. Better than my house and I technically wouldn't even need to call the fire department. I know the risk with an electric cart.

Swap out the lithium batteries for AGM batteries.

He's just invested shitload of money into the lithiums. Swapping them again would be imprudent.

.

Tesla only about 25% above fall of 2020 price level ... Tesla's real return is 25% minus 15% inflation, or 10% since 2020

.

For anyone who hasn’t driven a Tesla, or own one, give it a try and experience it first hand. I agree with this poster’s write up.

“Tesla is increasingly politicized. The extreme circumstances of which I don't think any car manufacturer has ever seen or endured this long. This is unfortunate and unfair to the designers, engineers, and the vehicles themselves to not get a fair shake. I think the way to overcome that is once again to get butts in seats. Without experiencing it personally, everyone will naturally reach an uninformed initial opinion of something when it is inherently foreign to them and divisive in nature. However, that surface-level prejudiced opinion (prejudiced, btw, on both excessively negative and excessively positive sides) melts away when it becomes a real, lasting experience like I've had the pleasure to have. It then is no longer a conceptual debate but is a life experience. Then, the odds of a more accurate understanding increase tenfold.”

https://x.com/unpluggedtesla/status/1751284051556835779?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

I’m also an early reservation holder for the Cybertruck and has been asked to design mine and take delivery. Due to the GVWR if the CT, it qualifies for IRS Section 179 business deduction.

Experience from a truck driver who had never driven a Tesla before. Seems like Semi trucks work for regional for now. Tesla is working on ramping up Semi production this year. Cost savings, or not, will be determine in the coming years.

https://x.com/gailalfaratx/status/1751246432584003679?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

https://x.com/evasteslasplaid/status/1750843655634530477?s=46&t=5lEEPaezr6Ic-W4Z6huZ5Q

WookieMan says

So seeing a Tesla isn't a big deal because wages have to match the high cost of living.

We got so many Teslas that the HOV lane is the slow lane.

This is just too funny. I'm supposed to ignore everything about EVs just because I like how it accelerates? Too funny. Wookieman has detailed the ridiculousness of EVs already. I will say that IMO the green agenda is all about 1 thing and 1 thing only...$$. How do you make ungodly amounts of money if you are a partner with the government? I'm not talking about just Elon. I'm talking about every politician and corporation that stands to gain monetarily. Change. Change, especially when you can front run the change, is extremely profitable. EVs simply do not make sense over an ICE vehicle.

If that's a truck, then this is a breathing device....

The Cybertruck may look unconventional to some, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It’s definitely not for everyone. Some people are going nuts with their Cybertruck.

It’s also interesting to know where the designer got their concept/design from.

You're a rich guy right, Eman? Why not get yourself a real car.

Why does Tesla feel they must be different to the point of making ugly vehicles? They have even less, I assume, restraints on design.

GNL says

Why does Tesla focus on making ugly vehicles? They have even less, I assume, restraints on design.

Status. While some one may mistake your Model 3 for a Nissan or Toyota, no one will mistake that cybertruck for anything but a Tesla.

Eman says

The Cybertruck may look unconventional to some, but beauty is in the eye of the behold

True, but Honda and GM tried a different look for a pickup (original Honda Ridgeline, Chevy Avalanche, Cadillac Escalade Truck), but all went back to the conventional looking pickup.

Tesla's design is not an improvement. No, in fact it's a downgrade in design and functionality.

Beauty is beauty. I guess Tesla doesn't believe they can compete with beautiful cars. Seriously, no one ever creates something with the intent of the thing being ugly. Or do they? Are there any examples of where a manufacturer created something with the intention of the thing look different for the sole purpose of looking different? Even to the point that 1. The design sucks 2. It's fugly and 3. It was/is a successful product?

Communism always creates ugly shit.

GNL says

You're a rich guy right, Eman? Why not get yourself a real car.

What is your definition of rich? What is a real car? Honest questions. There must be some basis to compare.

A buyer of a Tesla Model S is not in a market for a Camry hybrid or not. A person buying a new Model X is not in the market for a Rav 4 or a Nissan Armada, forget about a used one. This is why I insisted on comparing apples to apples.