patrick.net

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

Right. Why did Kuwait give Harken the offshore leases after Gulf War I? George W was on the board. George W wasn't on ARCO's board. News, certainly, in places like Chemical Week and the Washington Post, but not treason of the type committed by Trump threatening to leave Ukraine undefended from Russian tanks.

@APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch

1. I can not know if Biden pressuring UA govt had anything to do with prosecutor investigating his son, and we will never know. This is way too high up the food chain, and other than hearing some partisan noise we will never know the truth. BTW I have 1000% confidence level in both UA prosecutors being highly corrupt, both the original one (Shokin?) and the one who replaced him. It will end just like with your examples of Harken leases, $400/gal fuel for troops in Afghanistan, and so on, with no definite information and some people getting very rich. Too much money involved (50-80K Biden Jr salary is just the visible part of iceberg, UA shale fields near Lvov and in perspective near Doneck are the real payoffs. BTW some people say that shale fields near Doneck are the real reason behind Russian aggression, and I seem to think they might be right).

2. I disagree with you about Javelins. Whatever reason (I suspect our Golden Gollum does not not know and/or does not care that UA is at war with Russia, or $$$ transfer to MIC blinds him), Trump actually sold lethal weapons to Ukraine, while St Obama sat on his ass and preached tolerance. So, that is one thing we can not blame Trump for.

3. In any case, as a minimum, this is an example of terminal senility or complete lack of reality perception by Biden Sr.

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Right. IF you imply it, or even more or less say it explicitly, it doesn't mean that you meant it.

Without a signed contract, or repeated video recordings of "can we both agree that I did this for you, and you did that for me as a quid pro quo," without that it just isn't a quid pro quo.

And yet the fact that Biden was VP when his son got a sweet board of directors deal, is more than enough proof of a quid pro quo ?

I have to admit it is shocking that someone gets a seat on a board of directors becasue of "connections." Damn capitalism.

CovfefeButDeadly says

That’s not quid pro quo Marcus

Yes, its much closer to extortion.

God damn libbies if he switched to G Suite would that placate you??
Tim Aurora says

Trump is using office for personal gain and putting this country at risk

CornPoptheOriginalGangster says

China isn't investing $1.5B in one of Eric Trump's Investment Funds.

The left is claiming that Ivanka got a "quid" of some languishing trademarks being approved. The "quo" is that Trump returned the favor by giving China the gift of tarifs. Wait, what!?!?

Sigh.

“Hey Bob! My kids applying for that job in the State Controllers Office. Is there anything you can do for me?”

“Sure Dave! Hey can you make sure my building gets permitted this week? I applied with your office last week and the inspector is being a real hardass!”

“Yeah definitely Bob. I’ll make sure your permit is ready Tuesday”.

That’s quid pro quo.

In the Trump situation there was no promise of tangible benefit either way. There’s no actual crime.

It’s not intellectually dishonest either. I truly don’t understand why you are allowing yourself to be gaslighted by political hacks that are desperately grasping at straws against a political opponent they can’t beat.

Tim Aurora says

1. Impeachment is a political process and not a criminal process

Yes, ultimately this is true. And that is why it will be an utter disaster for the Democrats. They are impeaching on purely political terms, with no evidence that Trump committed any of the Constitutional wrongs to merit impeachment. Therefore theirs is a political stunt and will be met politically from the opposing party. That and Trump’s base will be energized to a degree not yet seen. Perhaps short of open rebellion, but not short of historical voting. Democrats will lose all house and senate and of course the Presidency

Tim Aurora says

2. Quid pro Quo can be invented in Trump's case.

There, fixed it for you

Tim Aurora says

1. Impeachment is a political process and not a criminal process
2. Quid pro Quo can be implicit

CovfefeButDeadly says

That statement is false in that a quid pro quo IS necessary to impeach...in fact impeachment is only available after the commission of "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors"

The constitution describes in what instances impeachment can take place! It’s exactly under what I posted!

The Constitution limits grounds of impeachment to "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors".[2] The precise meaning of the phrase "high Crimes and Misdemeanors" is not defined in the Constitution itself.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States

And the quid pro quo in this situation isnt even implicit! You have to make a galactic leap to get there including insertion of made up facts!

It’s why not one of these propagandist articles advocating impeachment makes any sort of sense. It’s actually why President Trump hasn’t already been impeached. If there were a true quid pro quo situation, there would already be 3-10 Republican Senators who would be ready to try and convict, if not more.

Only two kinds of people believes whistle blower's narrative.
1)A total and complete Moron, that is brainwashed to believe it, someone that just watches CNN and stews over Trump. As they believe everything CNN says about Trump.
2)Someone that really knows it's all a lie, and understands, if Trump did just half of what every TDS has tried to pull on Trump. There would be hell to pay. They also realize everything, down to the very last detail of everything they keep accusing Trump of, is exactly what the whole Swamp is guilty of. They are working in collusion to overthrow Trump. These people realize, it's a Coup based on lies, and deceit. They are scared to death that Trump is going to end up bringing the whole lot to Justice. These people hate Trump so fucking much, and they are such partisan hacks. They would burn their house down to get rid of a Rat. And that's what they are doing over Trump, and they damn well know it.

Wait! I said the first one was a Moron...

Anyway, what kind of Moron are you?

This is hilarious. We have Biden on tape before an audience recounting his demands for the firing of a Ukrainian Prosecutor, and the Prosecutor Shonkin - who is broke - who already filed a sworn affidavit that he was pressured to resign because he was investigating Bursima and all the Board Members including one Hunter Biden. Who was booted from the Naval Reserve recently for failing a drug test for Cocaine, and no experience in Energy or Finance. Just wait until they get to the $1.5B he solicited for his Fund with one week of a China Visit from that country.

Meanwhile, the Democrats are offering conspiracy theories as to why the WH Transcript is fake, and ignoring the fact the Ukrainian President confirmed the phone call and the content of it.

While the Biden Campaign sends threatening letters to demand NBC, CNN, Fox, etc. not have Guiliani on the show after he showed Shonkin's sworn testimony to George Stephanopolous on ABC.

Check out the Legal Team repping the Whistleblower. State and CIA to the hilt.

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Tenpoundbass says

As they believe everything CNN says about Trump.

But Fox has also published the transcript of the phone calls that CNN did, and besides, they were provided by the white house.

How do you fucking pin that on CNN ?

CornPoptheOriginalGangster says

This is hilarious. We have Biden on tape before an audience recounting his demands...

These people know that. They aren't interested in Justice or what is right or wrong.That want their team to win. They can't see far enough ahead to realize. What comes after the day these pussy, Marxist confused retards, takes over this country.

They think everyone will accept it like the Fantasy Football game they've been playing.

Tenpoundbass says

These people know that. They aren't interested in Justice or what is right or wrong.That want their team to win. They can't see far enough ahead to realize. What comes after the day these pussy, Marxist confused retards, takes over this country.

We all know what is going to happen. Schiffhead will demand and demand and demand documents, and Barr will eventually give him those, but they will be damning for Biden and other Democrats. The Demmedia will ignore anything damaging to the Dems and focus on constructing something out of whatever innocuous bits and pieces on Trump that comes from it.

Just like they are doing now.

The law firm behind the Whistleblower is a bunch of Left Wing ex-CIA and ex-State Dept operatives.

Mr. Zaid also has targeted Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mr. Trump’s personal attorney. Mr. Giuliani traveled to Ukraine in an apparent bid to have Hunter Biden scrutinized for the large financial payments he received from a Ukrainian natural gas firm that has been suspected of corruption.

Mr. Zaid tweeted: “Why have @POTUS personal lawyer talk abt subject matter he knows nothing abt factually or legally? These allegations pertain to official acts (& classified) that @RudyGiuliani should not have been briefed on. Nor does he know anything, to my knowledge, abt #whistleblower laws.”

On the immigration front, Mr. Zaid had this comment on his retweet of a story that claimed archaeological damage if the southern border wall is built: “Of course it will.”

When former Trump press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said she is “relentlessly” attacked by women, Mr. Zaid tweeted, “Gosh, why would that be?”

Mr. Moss, Mr. Zaid’s law partner, is a Twitter combatant who regularly disparages Mr. Trump’s defenders.

Mr. Moss asked Mr. Giuliani, “Saturday morning martinis again, Rudy?”
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/sep/22/mark-zaid-whistleblower-lawyer-hostile-trump/

marcus says

But Fox has also published the transcript of the phone calls that CNN did, and besides, they were provided by the white house.

You're still bringing up FOX in your defense. Your stupidity Marcus is no excuse to blindly believe I watch FOX news. I cut the Cord in 2012.
This is just more of the stupid shit Liberals do. Stay grounded in facts, I don't bring up FOX why do you?
CNN is a blanket statement for all of the TDS Commie interlopers posing as our Press. They are playing an active part in Obama's coup to overthrow Trump.
This is well documented from Sources, that every tech site has banned, and the FOX TDS characters would never report.

Isn't Dona Brazil on FOX now? give it a rest.

Tenpoundbass says

You're still bringing up FOX in your defense. Your stupidity Marcus is no excuse to blindly believe I watch FOX news. I cut the Cord in 2012.
This is just more of the stupid shit Liberals do. Stay grounded in facts, I don't bring up FOX why do you?
CNN is a blanket statement for all of the TDS Commie interlopers posing as our Press. They are playing an active part in Obama's coup to overthrow Trump.
This is well documented from Sources, that every tech site has banned, and the FOX TDS characters would never report.

Isn't Dona Brazil on FOX now? give it a rest.

Hahahaha. Whatever you do, don't address my point: THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE PRESIDENT'S UKRAINE CALL THAT CNN FOX AND EVERYONE PUBLISHED CAME FROM THE WHITE HOUSE !!!

Tenpoundbass says

CornPoptheOriginalGangster says

This is hilarious. We have Biden on tape before an audience recounting his demands...

Why don't you post it, instead of repeatedly making shit up ?

marcus says

Why don't you post it, instead of repeatedly making shit up ?

I've posted it at least twice before.

Here it is Again, yet Again from Secular Talk, a Left Wing Show, that produced this episode containing the relevant clip shortly after it happened:

www.youtube.com/embed/rtO1OigwfVs

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Honest analysis ?

https://theintercept.com/2019/09/22/reporters-stop-helping-donald-trump-spread-lies-joe-biden-ukraine/

But journalists at leading American news organizations — including CNN, the New York Times, Politico, ABC News, and MSNBC — have helped weaponize this disinformation by repeating the baseless smear over and over, without promptly and accurately conveying that Trump and Giuliani are lying about what the former vice president did in Ukraine. So lies and misinformation have been broadcast nationwide, reaching millions of people who will never read subsequent fact checks debunking them.

This began in May, when Giuliani’s embrace of the conspiracy theory was reported on the front page of the Times, in an article that forced readers to wait until the 19th paragraph to find out that “No evidence has surfaced that the former vice president intentionally tried to help his son by pressing for the prosecutor general’s dismissal.” Even so, the Times politics reporter who interviewed Giuliani, Ken Vogel, claimed on Twitter that this meant “The BIDENS are entangled in a Ukrainian corruption scandal.”

As I reported at the time, the truth is not that hard to determine. There is little doubt that Biden’s son Hunter did benefit from his father’s position by securing a spot on the board of a Ukrainian natural gas company in 2014, a legal but ethically dubious move. But when Joe Biden subsequently conveyed a threat from the Obama administration to withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees to Ukraine unless the chief prosecutor was dismissed, his intervention made it more rather than less likely that the oligarch who paid his son would be subject to prosecution for corruption. (bold text by me)

The real question becomes: are we a banana republic or like Russia - where it's impossible for the people to know the truth ? Or is the truth knowable ?

Who are the bigger liars and political hacks here ? Biden ? OR Trump and Giuliani ?

CovfefeButDeadly says

But it’s ok Tim and Marcus. You only have 5 more years of President Trump.

Imagine the deathbed regret for the 8 years of living angry and frustrated just because of a man named TRUMP. TDS is real.

komputodo says

TDS is real.

Yes, and it's being displayed in a crazy way by the Trump Cucks here in this very thread. This is what TDS looks like:

Tenpoundbass says

marcus says

But Fox has also published the transcript of the phone calls that CNN did, and besides, they were provided by the white house.

You're still bringing up FOX in your defense. Your stupidity Marcus is no excuse to blindly believe I watch FOX news. I cut the Cord in 2012.
This is just more of the stupid shit Liberals do. Stay grounded in facts, I don't bring up FOX why do you?
CNN is a blanket statement for all of the TDS Commie interlopers posing as our Press. They are playing an active part in Obama's coup to overthrow Trump.
This is well documented from Sources, that every tech site has banned, and the FOX TDS characters would never report.

All the scumbags are coming out.

Here is Gergenmell, I mean Deep State Neoliberal Gergen.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/09/29/trump-tweets-whistleblower-schiff-david-gergen-nr-vpx.cnn

marcus says

The real question becomes: are we a banana republic or like Russia - where it's impossible for the people to know the truth ? Or is the truth knowable ?

Will we allow the intelligence agencies to overthrow a Democratically Elected President because they hate his policies?

Think of how many angry DC administrators, who have put in their 30 years of fetching and schlepping, only to have the China-Euro Foreign Money Gravy Train taken away as they go to collect their earned reward.

marcus says

komputodo says

TDS is real.

Yes, and it's being displayed in a crazy way by the Trump Cucks here in this very thread. .

Really boss?

You're the one that has demonstrated repeatedly that you are incapable for God knows what reason of grasping simple legal concepts.

Remember that time you were factually proven wrong when you said the George Zimmerman trial would create precedence and you STILL continued to insist that it would even though you were factually 100% incorrect?

CornPoptheOriginalGangster says

Will we allow the intelligence agencies to overthrow a Democratically Elected President because they hate his policies?

So this is your story and you're sticking to it ?

The truth just unknowable ? OR it's just what you want it to be ? You say I'm going to have to believe the deep state version of reality, becasue the truth simply isn't knowable ?

You know what conspiracy theory I would find more believable than yours ? That Trump was actually following orders to pave the way for Biden to be President, by getting the public weary of this story long before the real campaign even begins. And by getting himself impeached. You should be looking forward to a Biden Presidency. Just think of all the things that will be blamed on him by right wing media. You'll have a blast ! Same for all you other TDS freaks. I half way wish for TRump to be reelected to have to deal with the problems that he is causing that haven't kicked in yet. Because the republicans are so effective at blaming others for the problems they cause - in part becasue of the cognitive challenges of their supporters.

OR perhaps it's not that Trump is being ordered to do it, that's a little too crazy of a conspiracy theory. But maybe Trump actually wants to run against Biden. Maybe the truth is Trump believes Biden would be easier to beat than Warren. That may be true. So he's getting this story under the bridge, and giving Biden the media focus. Which distracts from attention Yang or Warren could be getting.

Trump loves to dominate as many news cycles as possible, even when it seems bad for him.

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You laugh, but you know how much money this is going to generate ?

Hey, how is Avanetti, CNN's favorite Democratic Candidate, doing in the Polls?

Haven't heard much from him lately.

marcus says

So this is your story and you're sticking to it ?

The truth just unknowable ? OR it's just what you want it to be ? You say I'm going to have to believe the deep state version of reality, becasue the truth simply isn't knowable ?

My story is this:

The Whistleblower was a known entity, as serves as the excuse to reveal a whole bunch of shit.

(S)he was served a barium meal of 100000 lumens, glow-in-the-dark proportions.

We ain't seen nothing yet. But people are going to go down to the last second believing every "Dormant" Media Excuse, one after another.

This is going to be Avenatti/Cohen/Manafort x10000%

Its really nerve racking to live in a country that is on the brink and at risk. Add to that the possibility of TRUMP raping my daughter and the fact that we only have 9.5 years left on this planet. I say it's unsupportable.

marcus says

The truth just unknowable ? OR it's just what you want it to be

I actually believe that the only truth that exists is MATH...everything else is open to interpretation.

So what was Trump's motivation in his conversation with Zelensky? Do you seriously believe Trump is concerned about corruption in the Ukraine? And that he withheld aid to them because of the rampant corruption that is a very real issue in Ukraine? Is there any indication from Trump's actions to date that he cares about anything other than his own survival, both political and financial?

rdm says

So what was Trump's motivation in his conversation with Zelensky? Do you seriously believe Trump is concerned about corruption in the Ukraine? And that he withheld aid to them because of the rampant corruption that is a very real issue in Ukraine? Is there any indication from Trump's actions to date that he cares about anything other than his own survival, both political and financial?

Read the transcript for yourself. It's a very positive phone call. No quid pro quo whatsoever.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

Do you believe Obama was serious about corruption in the Ukraine? It exploded while he was President.

ICornPoptheOriginalGangster says

Read the transcript for yoursel

I've read it. But what was Trump's motivation for making it?

And BTW it is not a word for word transcript. Apparently such a word for word transcript does exist and certainly in a matter of this importance should be made available to the Intelligence committees. Agree?

If no evidence of a crime has been submitted and the accusation made by someone who wasn’t a witness, and when the supposed victim himself (President of Ukraine) states that he was not in any way victimized, then how do we take people seriously who insist that not only did a crime happen but it’s serious and warrants impeachment? You have to do better than that. Seriously!

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Trump is such an idiot.

Trump Was Repeatedly Warned That Ukraine Conspiracy Theory Was ‘Completely Debunked’

President Trump was repeatedly warned by his own staff that the Ukraine conspiracy theory that he and his lawyer were pursuing was “completely debunked” long before the president pressed Ukraine this summer to investigate his Democratic rivals, a former top adviser said on Sunday.

Thomas P. Bossert, who served as Mr. Trump’s first homeland security adviser, said he told the president there was no basis to the theory that Ukraine, not Russia, intervened in the 2016 election and did so on behalf of the Democrats. Speaking out for the first time, Mr. Bossert said he was “deeply disturbed” that Mr. Trump nonetheless tried to get Ukraine’s president to produce damaging information about Democrats.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/29/us/politics/tom-bossert-trump-ukraine.html?action=click&auth=login-email&blockId=most-popular&fallback=0&geoContinent=NA&geoCountry=US&geoRegion=CA&imp_id=732923395&locked=0&login=email&module=trending&pgtype=Article&recAlloc=top_conversion&recId=1RZ3qupmeF4sE6PFNxrvcCu7eDA®ion=Footer

rdm says

I've read it. But what was Trump's motivation for making it?

Can you quote the quid pro quo part?

rdm says

And BTW it is not a word for word transcript. Apparently such a word for word transcript does exist and certainly in a matter of this importance should be made available to the Intelligence committees. Agree?

I imagine there's a recording of it, not sure there is another transcript. That's part of the conspiracy theory to push the idea it's been doctored somehow. The only thing that is not verbatim is that the Ukrainian is translated and there's no certification that it's 110% accurate in terms of translation. The recorder might have missed a "The" or "Also" somewhere.

I don't, because there's nothing in it that's actionable or admissible in Court, along with the 2nd/3rd hand addendum of the Whistleblower's claim. There is no there, there.

"911? My neighbor told me his doctor's cousin saw his daughter's boyfriend steal a bicycle he thinks didn't belong to him."
"Shit Lady, we'll get there right away and arrest the guy. C'mon Friday, we gotta get there right away. Dun Da Dun Dun..."

marcus says

Trump is such an idiot.

Which is why Biden is flipping out, demanding that Guiliani not be allowed on TV to talk about Shonkin's sworn affidavit and other records.

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000016d-7e93-d60b-a3fd-7ef321ba0002

Also, if there was a bet on it, I'd totally take the side that the whistleblower is connected to rabid anti-Trumpers.

This has barium meal/canary trap written all over it, so please keep pushing it. It's going to explode in the face of TDS OrangeManBad.

Valid to wonder why guiliani was asked to call instead of state or doj employees.

DNI and DOJ supposedly both investigated and found no evidence of pride quo quo or wrongdoing.