patrick.net

Gold doesn't cause cancer, or oil spills, or risk too much on margin.

ALso - a lot of these “so called cushy retirements” are being used to help family members who are currently unemployed.

Why should govt workers be treated any more "special" than everyone else? Do you think that private sector workers who don't have lavish retirement plans like govt workers aren't also facing trouble taking care of family members who were laid off? That's what chaps me off, is that the govt workers demand that they be treated more special than others. It's like a welfare mentality, and it needs to stop

Regarding the 90% of highest earning years being typical or not typical, I checked locally the City of Houston, not known for lavish benefits, and their pension system pays out 90% of the City employee's highest 78 paychecks, and they can retire anytime with those benefits after 30 years, at age 51 if they started working at age 21 - http://ur.lc/j6n . On top of that, they also get health insurance and social security benefits (although they paid into SS, so that SS is not a big deal). Seems that 70% - 90% of top earning years in pension payments is TYPICAL across the US with govt pensions, not some isolated example like in California. Govt workers are sucking out far more benefits than they contributed and that's the crux of the problem.

Very few people retire at 50 because they have to have 10 years and it doesn’t always pay so well.

Public sector employees have become so spoiled and detached from the real world, that they believe that retirement at age 50 with 50% of their former salary is not being paid so well. Age 50, you should have to work until you're 65 unless you save for it YOURSELF.

Gold is heavy and could hurt you if you dropped it on your foot.

ZippyDDoodah says

Do these govt employees who pay SS, are they able to collect SS benefits + govt. pension, or only SS like the rest of us in the private sector?

What does that mean? When did pensions in the private sector get outlawed if you collect SS?

Zippy, although far too much of a drama queen, is correct. Like Greece government pensions in the US as currently structured are simply not financially sustainable and abuses of the systems are rampant. Not all, but a majority.

xenogear3 says

theoakman says

They still insist on buying General Electric & Bank of America and have been despite the fact that their retirement accounts nearly got wiped out buying those stocks.

The market is only down 30% from the peak, so you really cannot be “wiped out”. Also these companies pay dividend, and their dividend increase rate outpace the inflation.
Gold, on the other hand, can go down 70% and stay there. What is worse? It doesn’t pay dividend or generate any profit.

Rofl, give me a break. First off, those 2 companies were dead in the water and both got bailed out. BAC had a few bailouts and GE was given the luxury of issuing 100 billion in FDIC backed bonds. They were going straight to zero. And btw, the dividend from GE sucks.

As for the market only being down 30%, good luck buying into it. Their current and future revenue streams aren't reflected in the price today and the market is incredibly overbought.

tatupu70 says

theoakman says

Indian consumption has nothing to do with true global demand for gold

Sorry, I wasn’t very politically correct. I should have said Native Americans used to use beads as currency. Does that make them valuable today?
And I wasn’t alive to know for sure, but I don’t think the debased their currency back then…

No, because beads, salt, tobacco, or any other commodity currencies have always ended in widespread inflation because the supply of them can easily be increased.

pkowen says

theoakman says

Sway away then…I heard the same thing when Gold was at $600. I’d like you to name another form of honest money that ever existed to disprove my point.

Not trying to disprove. “Honest money” sounds like an emotional point of view, not one of logic

There have been several studies that showed prices in gold over the long term remain flat and they have dated them back to the 1300s using prices in Sterling. It's based on facts, not emotion.

theoakman says

As per deficits, spoken like a true Keynesian.

It's a beautiful philosophy... If the economy recovers, claim success regardless of the degree government "stimulus" affected it. If the economy doesn't recover, simply claim that not enough was spent. Like many of Freud's theories, it's a blanket approach - covers all circumstances.

This great recession really scared lots people.

I bet they are buying guns, gold and bottle water.
This explains why the bottle water is more expensive than milk and orange juice :)

ZippyDDoodah says

Previously federal employeed did not pay into SS.

That's because they used to pay into a system just like social security that predated it by over 30 years -- a system that SS was based on. In 1984 they folded the old system into SS.

ZippyDDoodah says

Do these govt employees who pay SS, are they able to collect SS benefits + govt. pension, or only SS like the rest of us in the private sector?

Why on earth do you think private sector employees "only" get to use SS? I have an excellent private retirement plan from my private employer -- 50% match on my 401(k). Some people still get pensions, though that's pretty rare these days.

And, yes, many public sector employees (the unionized ones in general) do have separate pensions in addition to social security, and they pay into them.

This isn't exactly hard information to find.

Why on earth do you think private sector employees “only” get to use SS? I have an excellent private retirement plan from my private employer — 50% match on my 401(k). Some people still get pensions, though that’s pretty rare these days.

Congrats. That comes out of private money, not taxpayers' and that's a huge difference. Also, you can't collect on that $$ at age 50 without massive penalties, can you? The main problem, which you appear too dishonest to address, is that public pension recipients are taking out FAR more than they contribute, and average taxpayers are being asked to foot the difference.. Which means 68 yrs olds asked to continue to work so that govt. retirees can enjoy 90% of their peak earning years starting at age 50 or 52. It's absurd beyond belief, and like in Greece, it's bankrupting our country. Earlier you made the assertion that 90% pension payouts after 30 yrs were uncommon for govt. employees. Yet the 90% payout, or a percentage very close to it, is common. I cited an example upthread.

It's not like that information was exactly hard to find asswipe

ZippyDDoodah says

Congrats. That comes out of private money, not taxpayers’ and that’s a huge difference

Oh, it gets worse. Did you know that their SALARIES and BENEFITS come out of tax dollars? You'd almost think that they were employees of the government or something!

ZippyDDoodah says

The main problem, which you appear too dishonest to address, is that public pension recipients are taking out FAR more than they contribute, and average taxpayers are being asked to foot the difference..

If you have a problem with the way that a public employer chooses to compensate its employees, why not vote for people who will change it? If you can't find someone who will, why not run your self?

ZippyDDoodah says

Earlier you made the assertion that 90% pension payouts after 30 yrs were uncommon for govt. employees. Yet the 90% payout, or a percentage very close to it, is common. I cited an example upthread.

Yes, you found an example. That still doesn't make it common. I can find an example of a giant idiot posting on a forum, but that doesn't necessarily make it common.

Here's some more competition; I have to admit, this one left me speechless. The 3/2 (1186 sq.ft.) at 2386 Krueger Dr, Concord, CA is renting for $1,595 (with a half month free rent incentive); it was recently renovated. I expected to see a long time owner with deep pockets and a low cost basis. But no, it was bought in 2005 for $480k and was financed to the tune of $350k by an outfit called Najarian Loans. The current zestimate is around $245k. There appear to be subsequent refies. Wow, talk about a money pit; that is one expensive mistake. Maybe it will cash flow for his kids...

OMG! The bathroom is like- ick!

Better to get someone in there to pay the utillities than put up with looters. Indeed a money pit, but it looks like that's as deep as they could dig it.

This poor shmuck had to lower his price from $22.9 million to $18.9 million. Oh, the pain! Here's the sales pitch: http://5000equincy.com/ Read more about the mansion etc here: http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_15057590 The weirdly shaped pool is visible from space. Scroll to the bottom of this page to see the Google map satellite view.

This is in Colorado? I'd offer 250k.

Interesting housing / gold chart.

Looks like the long-term average is about 400 ounces of gold per house.

At current prices we are around 150 ounces of gold per house.

I guess that makes sense at the bottom of a housing crash.

I think a lot of the fluxuations in the price of gold can be explained by mining produciton and the various methods. I can't find it now, but I remember seeing a chart that showed the price of gold falling in the 90s just as the production went up because of incresased use of gold cyanidation, a leach pit operation that began again in the US and really started taking off in China.

How far into the toilet is Europe going to pull the US? I see this as very bad for the price of gold, but so far its not.

EMan,

so it takes 10 years for gold price to run up and 20 years for it to deflate.

Really? Aren't you overgeneralizing? An economist Peter Bernstein wrote a book "The Power of Gold", in it there's chapters about gold through the ages.

Don't remember reading about any such 10-yr/20-yr cycles.

knewbetter says

I see this as very bad for the price of gold, but so far its not.

Care to explain? I would think that would be a sweet thing for Gold. When multiple sovereign debt is 150% of its GDP and needs a bailout, shouldnt gold raise?

Some friendly constructive criticism: it's "peace" not "piece."

RayAmerica says

Some friendly constructive criticism: it’s “peace” not “piece.”

Thanks - my spell check screwed me up. This drama continues in the news - for some reason they didn't file formal charges yet. Slow news days... they're gonna milk this story for all that they can. Unfortunately.

I see it as deflationary, like the financial collapse. I know we're in a different currency, so I guess if I was holding euros the price of gold would be going up even faster for me.

Oh yeah, I also wanted to mention the RE Bubble was many RE Bubbles probably. Most places in the USA had NO RE BUBBLE. So, lumping them into national averages and such throws off your analysis. You really need to say "2000-2008 FL RE Bubble" and "2000-2008 CA RE Bubble" etc.

elliemae says

Thanks - my spell check screwed me up.

Spell check? LOL! You keep proving yourself "so smart & stuff." Too funny.

No Rayray, we all think that you're the genius n' stuff, golly... And why is it that no one can comment on the OP? I can speak for myself. I'm horrified into silence, elliemae. It takes a lot to do that given what I see on a daily basis.

RayAmerica says

elliemae says

Thanks - my spell check screwed me up.

Spell check? LOL! You keep proving yourself “so smart & stuff.” Too funny.

I'm able to use a word processing program. Sometimes it auto changes words. I don't think this reflects badly on my intellect. Simcha raises a good point - you obviously lack the ability to even fake compassion about the OP and would rather attack me personally. Anonymous attacks by narrow minded people on the interweb don't hurt my feelings. It doesn't surprise me that you constantly attack me and others who disagree with you, but it must be lonely dwelling at the bottom all the time.

Obama heavily campaigned for all 4 candidates. Results: all 4 lost. LOL

I just looked at the map of the district, and it actually contains a city named Uniontown. Not sure it means anything, but kind of funny.

In general, I think too much is being read into these recent races. Rand Paul wins in Kentucky over the GOP's hand picked candidate by running in part against taxes, yet an additional one cent sales tax passes in Arizona, a Republican controlled state.

ahasuerus99 says

Obama didn’t exactly campaign heavily for Specter.

Obama did endorse & campaign for Specter. Specter also included Obama saying " I love Arlen Specter" in his TV ads. Any way you look at it, Specter was Obama's candidate.

^ Wow, Rayray's a bottom? Who knew?

Fear is driving up gold, not wisdom.
In the coming era of austerity, the global bear market and the resulting deflation will prick the gold bubble. (pardon my French)
It is mint to be but does anyone caret all? Will anyone raise the bar? Will things pan out? Does this theory ring true? Is there a silver lining?
I welcome all sterling comments.

Is that because he can only screw up?

RayAmerica says

ahasuerus99 says

Obama didn’t exactly campaign heavily for Specter.

Obama did endorse & campaign for Specter. Specter also included Obama saying ” I love Arlen Specter” in his TV ads. Any way you look at it, Specter was Obama’s candidate.

OMIGAWD! (yes, I meant to yell) President Obama had his own candidate? Did he own him? Does Obama own people? This would be slavery, and isn't tolerated. I can't believe that our president owns people and no one but rayray cares. Oh, yea, that's right - because they're still waiting to hear Glen Beck's explanation & alibi for the raping & killing of young girls...

So what if Ellie misspells an occasional word? Why capitalize on it? Why keep tabs on it? Maybe she was working the late shift and needed a pause, so give her a break. And speaking of late, I would worry more if she missed a period, in the punctuational sense, of course.

elliemae says

President Obama had his own candidate? Did he own him? Does Obama own people? This would be slavery, and isn’t tolerated. I can’t believe that our president owns people and no one but rayray cares. Oh, yea, that’s right - because they’re still waiting to hear Glen Beck’s explanation & alibi for the raping & killing of young girls…

You need to see your Dr. immediately to have your meds adjusted according to your obvious needs. Take your above comment with you as an illustration of how out of whack you are.

I printed out the entire thread, and the doc would like to see you on the Behavioral Med unit this afternoon. Please leave sharp objects at home, and plan on staying awhile.

Zlxr says

I would have been more upset if she had added an “s” to the piece. Yes, I heard about the Utah news. Unfortunately it happens all too often over here (we have more people). And if you read enough stories like this - one can see why some people believe in things like “Birth Control” and “Abortion”. At the very least there should be a class on parenthood reality training before people think about having kids.

We have much fewer crimes here - we have less people. And we're all busy behind the safety of our doors, molesting our children, abusing prescription medications and practicing who knows what else. There's now a bill being proposed, Ethan's Law, that denies custody to a parent who abandons the child. I doubt that they can do this - too many what if's. But the boy's father fought to keep him from going to Utah with his mom, the boy didn't want to go, and the law was on the side of the mom. What a horrible piece of shit she is. Insofar as my "rest in piece," I guess this proves that I'm not perfect. Although I never claimed to be, it gave rayray a hard-on. But a teeny one, I'm sure. Getting tired of his anti-ellie attacks, I wish he'd say something worthwhile for once.