patrick.net

No my plan was to pay my own in a what I thought was fair system.

Your Boy should have made it a fair system. You thought he was going to do that, because he threw a few words like "Affordable" in the name of his signature legislation. I'd worry more about your own short comings if I were you, and quit looking for fault in others.

CaptainShuddup says

No my plan was to pay my own in a what I thought was fair system.

Your Boy should have made it a fair system. You thought he was going to do that, because he threw a few words like "Affordable" in the name of his signature legislation. I'd worry more about your own short comings if I were you, and quit looking for fault in others.

So 1 years insurance premiums wiped you out financially but you were going to pay your own way if you had some major illness. That makes zero sense.

He's your boy more than mine. I voted against him and have been against the ACA since the beginning. The difference is I think the ACA as a bad law that just kicks the can down the road while you see it as the end of your free ride on other peoples backs.

The bottom line is that the ACA is here, and those who blindly were against it from day one just because it was something proposed by a Democrat lost. Too bad. Time to move on.

Call it Crazy says

Many people signed on for the lowest cost "Obamacare" plan without understanding their TOTAL costs out of pocket...

It will be a HUGE awakening for many people when they need treatment since many don't pay attention to the finer details....

I would refer to those people as morons.

dodgerfanjohn says

Walked by 4 dealerships at 7pm last night. Not one customer. This was in LA County South Bay Area....probably one of the wealthiest areas in the US.

Were they even open at 7PM?

CaptainShuddup says

I bought two cars last year, and the dealer sends me emails every day begging me to buy another. They must be desperate.

Last time I bought a new car was in October 1995. I still occasionally get offers in the mail from Ford, but my 1995 Escort is still doing just fine.

bob2356 says

So 1 years insurance premiums wiped you out financially but you were going to pay your own way if you had some major illness. That makes zero sense.

Yep keep thinking that, that is all there is to this WONDERFUL health care system, it's that forward backward thinking that is going to seal the Liberal's fate in the next two elections.

You keep telling eveybody that they have "Free Healthcare".

Like my friends girlfriend yesterday who was singing the praises of Obamacare. She said her premium is just a little over $250 a month. For her age, over 50 she was ecstatic that she had coverage.

But when I asked her if she had that extra $25,000 saved up, she had no idea what I was talking about. So I asked her, if she used her healthcare yet. Which she replied she did not. So then I informed her that if she went to the Doctor tomorrow and had tests ran. Besides her initial Doctor visit copay, she should expect a bill in the mail for everything beyond the tongue depressor that the Doctor used. Blood work, Lab fee, tech fee, and a few other Doctors you never heard of or even saw.

But that's not the worst of it, if the blood work comes back, and it is determined that you will need a $30K operation. You will need at least $10K to cover your co insurance part. Do you have 10 grand in the bank? She replied that she did not, so I informed her that I was sorry but she was going to DIE.

To which her boy friend, who is also a ACA champion, (but only because he will get Diabetes medicine for free under ACA, which would cost him $1,000 a month otherwise.) Agreed with me 100% on everything I told her, Like me he's seen it first hand. Not only personally but while his late wife was fighting 4 stage lung cancer in 2012.

He knows what we've got, and he welcomes Obamacare. But he's also praying lie hell his diabetes meds keeps every thing in check and he never needs anything major done. But he knows, and now so does his GF.

You'll find out too Slick so don't get sick.

Call it Crazy says

I think we'll see a lot more of these "awakenings" as we progress down the Obamacare road....

That's what people on the right want because otherwise their entire platform for the past 5 years will have been for naught.

Call it Crazy says

Why the fuck is it ALWAYS a right, left thing with you?

You mean to tell me ALL the "lefties" totally understand the Obamacare plans they signed up for????

Really???

Perhaps the same should be asked of your responses, seeing as how it would seem your responses, posts, and conversations seem to tread very reliably right-leaning.

Whats also clear is that the GOP and their eager followers wanted the ACA to fail the very second it was mentioned, and furthermore, they aren't about to give it a chance to work out all the kinks. This stuff takes time.

CaptainShuddup says

Yep keep thinking that, that is all there is to this WONDERFUL health care system, it's that forward backward thinking that is going to seal the Liberal's fate in the next two elections.

You keep telling eveybody that they have "Free Healthcare".

Pretty amazing you are so doped that you can't understand the words I'm against ACA. You should consider donating whatever is left of your brain to science.

CaptainShuddup says

You'll find out too Slick so don't get sick.

If I get sick I'm not going to be using US healthcare. I'm only carrying a policy to cover the ER costs if I get hit by a truck while I'm in the US the next 3 years. Unlike you I won't stick my fellow citizens with the bill if something happened. Anything beyond an being carried to the ER it's adios. The advantage of having multiple citizenship as well as permanent residencies.

edvard2 says

That's what people on the right want because otherwise their entire platform for the past 5 years will have been for naught.

If I get in a car that has no gas in it, to take a hundred mile trip the outcome will be predictable.

bob2356 says

If I get sick I'm not going to be using US healthcare. I'm only carrying a policy to cover the ER costs if I get hit by a truck while I'm in the US the next 3 years. Unlike you I won't stick my fellow citizens with the bill if something happened. Anything beyond an being carried to the ER it's adios. The advantage of having multiple citizenship as well as permanent residencies.

You're a good man, for thinking what you think you're thinking.

But the truth is, if you get sick you're going to die, the bitches want their money upfront.

And Yes, you're damn right, that's what Socialized healthcare is supposed to be, we pay taxes and their is no extra cost. It's supposed to be a healthcare system not a profit center.

You self professed Libs crack me up, you claim out one side of your ass you want a Socialized medicine system, then invent a million words to communicate that thought. But you never miss a trick to bitch and scathe people throwing a few words like "Personal responsibility" while you vehemently defend the gross profits of Obamacare.

But I'll be Goddamn if you can tolerate for one fucking minute anything remotely that even looks like Socialized medicine.

Like people showing up at Emergency rooms because don't have a primary Doctor, or even worse, someone going Healthcare alone with out feeding the Health sector profits.

I might like to get stoned, but I'm never conflicted with my beliefs.

Pick one and stick with it will ya?

CaptainShuddup says

But you never miss a trick to bitch and scathe people throwing a few words like "Personal responsibility" while you vehemently defend the gross profits of Obamacare.

But I'll be Goddamn if you can tolerate for one fucking minute anything remotely that even looks like Socialized medicine.

Like people showing up at Emergency rooms because don't have a primary Doctor, or even worse, someone going Healthcare alone with out feeding the Health sector profits

So your definition of "personal responsibility" is not having health care insurance so if you get really sick everyone else will be stuck paying for it and your definition of "socialized medicine" is not having health care insurance so if you get really sick everyone else will be stuck paying for it?

It's good to not have conflicted beliefs.

What part of "I'm against obamacare" are you totally incapable of understanding? Should I use less words or smaller words?

Perhaps the confusion in your mind is the fact that healthcare insurance and obamacare have become fused as one and the same concept to you. I'm sure it's very hard for you to remember things that happened more than 2 hours ago but trust me when I say that health care insurance existed before obamacare. You of course never had it so you don't remember it.

zzyzzx says

dodgerfanjohn says

Walked by 4 dealerships at 7pm last night. Not one customer. This was in LA County South Bay Area....probably one of the wealthiest areas in the US.

Were they even open at 7PM?

Yes. It's so cal, not Buttwart, ND.

everything says

Yeah, that 08 corolla is an alright good buy, I'm seeing some of the older ones climb past 200k with no problems yet, the Yaris, looking to be another good long term buy, the newer Camry's .. ouch.

December is the slow season for car sales.

My G35 has 160k miles on it. My mechanic says I'm fine driving it out to Vegas, mid day in August, and it's going to last 300k or more. I asked about the transmission and he said my concerns are misplaced. Haven't had a car payment in years, and don't intend to anytime soon.

Call it Crazy says

Hey dude.... The Obamacare approval rating is like 35%....

Of course it has low approval ratings. The rollout was awful, and nobody would deny that. Does that mean its a bad idea to have a healthcare system in place that means if you break an arm you're not going to go bankrupt? I personally know several people who did not have health insurance, had a major health problem, and then wound up going bankrupt as a result. Obamacare is a step in a direction that solves some of these very serious problems. Did you know that in the US, the single largest cause of bankruptcy are healthcare related? Do you know how many billions of dollars that costs the US economy? There was a major reason the ACA came about, and part of it was to stem this growing financial strain on the system.

181K miles on my Honda Civic HX (CVT) and it's still trucking.

Never had a payment. Paid cash as a new car.

bob2356 says

"personal responsibility"

Personal responsibility is the kind of shit you stay up worrying all night about. I can give a rats ass what Politicobingo Buzzwords you assmunches like to throw around while cheering on the oppressive Obamacare and taxes all things that does dick all for your American.

I'm impervious to it, I sleep like a fucking rock.

But in all reality, not as political concept on shaming people into picking up and carrying your political pony, but for as to question my responsibilities, you would have to ask my family how do I handle my responsibilities. They'll tell you tread that burden quite well. I refuse to carry your dead mule around on my back.

As far as not having insurance, if I Die I'll see you hell.
We'll talk about what a chump and a sucker you were, and make small chat how the System left your out dry and whither away with what ever ailment put you belly up to the sky, because you didn't have your 25 Clams sitting in your Medical Personal Spending Account, or in that non interest baring savings account.

I'll even let you wear my Dummy hat, if it will cheer you up.

Call it Crazy says

The ACA won't change that, it might actually increase it because the majority of the people who signed up are clueless regarding co-pays and deductibles! They think buying a low priced Bronze plan means they are home free....

Sorry, but that's far from the truth. The ACA was in part created to solve this dilemma. The very fact that millions of Americans who were previously uninsured will now have insurance is one of many reasons why medical bankruptcy will be drastically decreased. The Cap'n is on my ignore list.

edvard2 says

Call it Crazy says

The ACA won't change that, it might actually increase it because the majority of the people who signed up are clueless regarding co-pays and deductibles! They think buying a low priced Bronze plan means they are home free....

Sorry, but that's far from the truth. The ACA was in part created to solve this dilemma. The very fact that millions of Americans who were previously uninsured will now have insurance is one of many reasons why medical bankruptcy will be drastically decreased. The Cap'n is on my ignore list.

I keep thinking that many who buy insurance think insurance means "I don't have to pay, or I get a discount on my healthcare". Medical bankruptcy will be all but eliminated it appears.

Relative to that, a 5-6K deductible won't be a big deal, but getting to 5-6K might surprise some who had not been insured.

Even people I talked to that use insurance seem to misunderstand what it is that they get for it.

CL says

I keep thinking that many who buy insurance think insurance means "I don't have to pay, or I get a discount on my healthcare". Medical bankruptcy will be all but eliminated it appears.

Your statement nailed it: When health insurance was all private, even if you had one of the best plans, come a major medical procedure you would often still be on the hook for sometimes 1000's of dollars. That means you might have had to pay say- $1,500, which is the case with my plan as a deductible. But that's a far cry from the anywhere from $10,000- $100,000 it would have cost out of pocket. Its the same with car insurance: You also have to pay a deductible on top of the monthly sum.

So I find it interesting and ironic that many against the ACA mention these additional costs as if they never existed before: Of course they did. But the takeaway is ultimately, people aren't going to have their financial lives ruined as a result of not having medical coverage,plain and simple.

Houses.
Cars.

How about dropping the prices?

And getting us the pollution free, and livable units we want?

Call it Crazy says

With like 50% of the population living paycheck to paycheck, having to pay a 16K medical bill is the same as having to pay a 100K bill when you don't have any additional funds.....

When you have a medical bankruptcy, do they make you sell your house or other assets to pay the bill?

Call it Crazy says

Are you really this clueless???

Do you have any idea the total costs per year to someone on a bronze plan if they have a major surgery??

Your premise is that since they have insurance now, they'll be saved from medical bankruptcy?? Really??

Don't believe you actually understand how these plans work at all. With all of these plans there is a maximum cap, around $6,000 for individuals, 12k for a couple, per year. The difference between the "metals" is the deductible, which is higher for bronze for something like a major surgery.

It helps to understand the facts.

Call it Crazy says

Hospital staff in Northern Virginia are turning away sick people on a frigid Thursday morning because they can't determine whether their Obamacare insurance plans are in effect.

Yet another reason we need to nationalize the whole damn system.

WOW! The UNtrustworthy are certainly in control of what information is apparent to the people!

Say hey! This was in the Wall Street Journal on March 30, 1999. Note "... how much it will buy."

Holy cow/interesting/compelling ...!

And where is it up to date??? Right here ... see the first chart shown in this thread.
Recent Dow day is Monday, January 6, 2014 __ Level is 105.3

WOW! It is hideous that this is hidden! Is there any such "Homes, Inflation Adjusted"? Yes! This was in the New York Times on August 27, 2006:

And up to date (by me) is here:
http://patrick.net/?p=1219038&c=999083#comment-999083

WOW! The UNtrustworthy are certainly in control of what information is apparent to the people!

And http://patrick.net/?p=1230886

Call it Crazy says

Go look up the bronze plan and report what you find...

Already did, which is what I previously explained to you. Obviously you haven't read any of these plans or else you wouldn't be making inaccurate statements.

carrieon says

Kennedy was taken out because he ordered the U.S. treasury to issue lawful currency, just 10 days before the assassination.

BS, Kennedy committed suicide. It was all done with mirrors. I read it on the internet so it has to be true.

"confrontational but really trying to understand how sustainable the system really is? Is it people taking more risk? Is it people living above their mean? Is it investors? Is it Chinese buyers? Who can sustain such growth?

Thanks for your explanations

"

@ above. I think I said the same exact thing to BMWman whom ponder the exact same thing in 2011? Where is the growth? Who are the buyer's. This is not sustainable?

Well guess what, I told him look in the mirror, you are the demand and sure enough, he bought six months later. lol easy freakin call.

Well guess what, look in the mirror, you are the demand. It sounds like you make around 350K which is at least 18K a month net of tax. You can afford 5K in mortgage (permanent cost of interest, tax and direct payments) and still save 100K a year (some will be forced saving, 401K match deferred), so not understanding crying poor. If you are unwilling, plenty are willing due to income position (250K+ income) or wealth (plenty of millionaires). Housing is competed for at the margins and you have plenty of margins.

Of course it is sustainable, in fact, 2014 and 2015 will be more like 2013 and 2012 so there will be more escalation in your 3/2/2. The system has too much money with brutally nowhere to go and for basic property in coveted area (and you are competing for the same 5% of the housing stock in the SFBA) , no one is selling or even close to selling. (housingtracker) Not only are there too much money, you'll have a permanent low transactions due to the majority locking interest rate sub 3.5%. Worst, there is no new homes for sale, especially SFH as an alternative. Household income for the top 20% are rising and wealth is exploding, those will not change anytime soon.

You are competing for the same 5-10% of the housing stock so stop thinking in terms of median. You are not living like a median person. The median household is a renter or lives in a 300K deep east bay home or an old time homeowner who owned the damn place since 1970's with living cost cheaper than anywhere in the USA.

This is the USA, where interest rate is never really a risk as you know they always take the same low interest pill and the tax environment always favor landowners and deter transactions. Hoarding land is hoarding wealth which will be the trend going forward. The entire world kinda works that way.

It's been about 40 years since we last lost control of inflation. What does the average investor know about it? We were kids (at best) the last time. In my opinion, the 15 Trillion in liquidity-from-nowhere is only now reaching Main Street. Inflation will be the result and higher interest rates, the only Fed tool to combat it.

There are trillions of reasons why fundamentals have nothing to do with real estate prices. Your investments may well increase by another 20 percent this year, but so may french fries.

deepcgi says

the 15 Trillion in liquidity-from-nowhere is only now reaching Main Street.
Inflation will be the result and higher interest rates, the only Fed tool to
combat it.

OR money supply and price levels are not related. What if the inflation of the 70s was caused by increased demand driven by a 10% increase in the labor force participation rate from 1966-1980? In fact, the number in the labor force increased from 75M to 107M from 1966-80. That is a 2.5% annual increase.

2.5% more workers every year, many of whom just added to household income (1 income to 2) generating more household disposable income = more demand, higher prices.

Unless we get more income earners out of a household, or wage inflation, or both - we are not getting inflation.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=qGf

bob2356 says

tatupu70 says

Why do you ignore the obvious evidence that aliens killed Kennedy?

I'm convinced. There are video's, it must be true.

Why don't both you nitwits expand your myopic horizons and listen to this interview from Guns and Butter; one of the best programs on KPFA (non-corporate public radio in the Bay Area and a few other markets).

http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/98011

LBJ had a hand in it, that's for sure. The Warren Commission Report was bunk and was full of loose ends.

thomaswong.1986 says

Needless to say, you got what you voted for.. dismal 8 years, worst ever.

It's a worldwide phenomenon. Is Obama the Emperor of the Earth?

deepcgi says

Inflation will be the result and higher interest rates, the only Fed tool to combat it.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?g=qGp

is consumer debt / wages.

This is not a graph that can support "higher interest rates".

Should they appear somehow, the economy would crash in a deflationary cross-default spiral, like what we were seeing in 2008-2009.

Similarly, we're in an extreme regime with Federal debt:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/GFDEGDQ188S

At 100% debt-to-GDP, we're getting into weird feedback effects, like what Japan is dealing with.

Interest paid by the government is an upward form of distribution, from taxpayers to "savers".

But if these "savers" don't spend, this is deflationary.

Basically our entire economy is fucked. Too much money with the "savers", not enough remaining within the paycheck economy.

3/4 of the country don't have 6 months income saved, hell 2/3 don't have $1000

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/pf/emergency_fund/

Cherry picking clearly doesn't tell the whole story. and '77 is too late.

Keep raising rents and see whether or not Joe Renter pushes for higher wages rather than doubling up with the family next door.

Bill: I agree. We can't support higher interest rates.

Control Point: Keep raising the rent and the wage pressure will increase. People will not begin "sharing" single family homes.

finehoe says

thomaswong.1986 says

Needless to say, you got what you voted for.. dismal 8 years, worst ever.

It's a worldwide phenomenon. Is Obama the Emperor of the Earth?

You mean he cant fix it like Reagan did back in the 80s ?

Is increasing Min wage his only solution to the economic and

unemployment problems...

I predict a sudden and (to democrats) completely unexplainable drop in crime for the Windy City next year!
It's a much bigger risk when the person you're mugging might have a gun in their possession.

deepcgi says

Bill: I agree. We can't support higher interest rates.

Control Point: Keep raising the rent and the wage pressure will increase. People will not begin "sharing" single family homes.

Employers will respond to higher wage pressure with a hearty FUCK YOU and pink slips. Then they will then renew their shill cries of employment shortages to swell the labor pool with labor more willing to compromise on living standards.

Its worked great so far.