patrick.net

i am just saying that you need "CERTIFICATION" and NOT LICENCING !!!!!! There is a difference. Also, if a requirement tests your patience ( length of training ) and desire for money ( expensive training needs bigger ROI) guess what you get : stupid , greedy and ambituous doctors ! In most countries, the requirement is such that , the person needs to be competent and smart. BTW, i go to india ofter and travel back and forth a lot.I have very good insurance in US but i prefer to get treated in india because i have found much "SMARTER" doctors who had the "NEEDED" training. I have GENERALLY found that doctors in US are more ambituous and money oriented but don't have the same IQ level ( for what they are paid). The barrier of entry in US to medicine due to the cost and length of education gives the avergage IQ guys (who have deep pockets , greed and focus on money ) advantage over the smart ones (but less fortunate). Thats one reason i mostly find that the smart people in US do Entrepreneurship and other fields than medicine. Nothing comes for free.. if you make the training excessively lengthy and cost prohibitive, you will ofcourse loose something ( smart people) and be left with dumb and greedy people. By the way my generalization does not apply to all doctors...i am just pointing to a trend in US versus other countries.I have found really good , passionate doctors here but the % does not match up to what it should be. I'll prefer to go to a less trained SMART guy who is passionate than a guy who is dumb , has trained for 15 years, and has spent thousands on education.

Some Guy : "Great. Why don’t you move to India and shut the fuck up, then?" BTW, Who the fuck are you to tell me that ? I will move as i wish ha..ha.. I enjoy best of both worlds ( which you can only dream of ) Has it become a norm to tell whoever complains about care in US to go to some other country.

I don’t want some hack with no medical training treating me. You are free to choose one with the training you want ...who is stopping you ?

i am anyway's getting my treatments in India..thanks for the tip though. i stay in US and have the flexibility to go anywhere i want depending on what i want. I like everything about US except healthcare so i don't want to move to any other country. Anyway, you didn't answer my question. I don’t want some hack with no medical training treating me. You are free to choose one with the training you want …who is stopping you ?

homeowner_for ever_san jose says

i am just saying that you need “CERTIFICATION” and NOT LICENCING !!!!!! There is a difference.

Uh, yeah, the difference is that practicing without a license gets you thrown in jail. Other than that they're the same thing. zetabeos1 says

Have you taken some time to mentor/train these ‘bad’ engineers? Your job, if you are a manager, is make your staff leaders for years to come.

I'm not currently in management (managers aren't engineers -- it's a completely different role for people with completely different skill sets, and good engineers rarely make good managers and vice versa), but your argument could still apply to a limited extent. The short answer is "yes", but that doesn't change the fact that 80% of people who are employed as software engineers aren't very good at it. We make do with what we have, but it would be a lot better if we just had better people, period. I'm all for more H1-Bs because it would mean a larger pool of good people to choose from. I don't have 10 years to spend training someone to make up for their own incompetence; technology can't wait that long. Bap33 says

There is no healthcare issue. None.

You don't consider the fact that we pay twice as much per capita for health care as any other country in the world to be an issue? You don't consider the fact that our medical costs account for 16% of GDP to be an issue? You don't see the fact that the only medical care program available for the elderly is going to be insolvent in 20 years as an issue? Are you on medication right now? Bap33 says

it would appear that free healthcare don’t work over yonder.

Uh, you do realize that the Japanese just elected a new liberal government that wants to expand their social safety nets (including health care), don't you? Why on earth would you point to this to support your argument? homeowner_for ever_san jose says

You are free to choose one with the training you want …who is stopping you ?

If I can't be reasonably confident that the practitioner is providing verifiable credentials, that's a pretty big barrier. How do I know that the less qualified guy is qualified enough to handle whatever my particular issue is? How do I know that he's going to be aware of the side effects and interactions when he tells me that I need some particular medication? Without some significant penalty for misrepresenting one's abilities and training, there's nothing to stop someone from outright lying about them -- which is exactly what we see in other industries. We have a bunch of shitty software engineers and shitty mechanics and shitty general contractors, but we put up with those because it's unlikely that anybody is going to die if they screw up. We don't take that same risk with physicians and civil engineers and similar professions because somebody will die if they screw up.

Patrick, I'm getting tired of your pro-healthcare views being posted on Patrick. I don't visit the website for political bias, I visit for Real Estate news. I'm sorry to say, that as a long time viewer, and fan of the site, I will have no choice but to quite, and boycott the site if I don't see a drastic reduction of political articles. You are RIGHT about real-estate, bu VERY VERY wrong about health care. You don't know what your talking about, and you are just regurgitating radical left talking points. Larry

You are one serious illness away from bankruptcy. Everything you ever earned will be taken from you in medical bills, even if you have insurance. Only America does that to its people. No other country.

How is that different from any of the other unfortunate and unforeseen consequences which is part of life? One layoff away from unemployment. One car accident away from being paralyzed... etc. Sure, there are solutions to mitigate these unfortunate occurrences but is larger government really the answer?

Bap33 "Your post is the stupest thing I’ve sen on the net ever in life — ever. You stupid motherfucker. Actually I am quite bright and used to be a conservative until the religious crazies co opted the term. Now I prefer to be independent with a fiscally conservative outlook. I think the thing you are truly searching for in life is called anger management counseling. You really need to get your meds readjusted. I noticed you never answered my questions by the way, just vilified my response. Typical of what passed for discourse in the far right wing. Why do you consider all American doctors scum and believe Indian doctors walk on water? Especially since lots of Indian doctors were trained in the American system that you so despise. What qualifies you to have this opinion? This should be interesting. FYI. Unlike America where the primary limit on medical students is the amount of funding provided by states and the federal government, in India the medical schools are strictly regulated by the government and there is a strict limit on of 18,000 on licensing (graduation). Since about 36,000 students graduate medical school in India half must go abroad to finish their training. Don't ever let facts interfere with you opinions.

to larrypatrickmaloney: Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out! Boycott the site?? Is that supposed to scare Patrick and everyone else here? Why don't you get a life? It's Patrick's site and he can post whatever he chooses!

Bap33 says

but Patrick, we are also able to move beyond our born-into-station of life here and that is not as easy to do elsewhere. I guess that exposes us to some risk not found elsewhere too?

What a heaping pile of bullshit! You have clearly never been outside of the United States if you believe such utter garbage.

bob2356 says :Unlike America where the primary limit on medical students is the amount of funding provided by states and the federal government, in India the medical schools are strictly regulated by the government and there is a strict limit on of 18,000 on licensing (graduation). Since about 36,000 students graduate medical school in India half must go abroad to finish their training. Don’t ever let facts interfere with you opinions. Utter bullshit...there is nothing like that in india. looks like bob is pulling facts out of his ass.

BTW, bap33 i don't think you need anger management. we don't need pussies here..we need people who get angry when people talk bullshit.

zetabeos1 says

A very interesting article…posted by Patrick Online database lists salaries of more than 134,000 workers across Bay Area and beyond Grown during better times, public paychecks stick out during lean years. Who are the FAT CATS now!

Apparently, Patrick is one of them ;p

REGISTRATION OF DOCTORS 2004 21,003 2005 16,634 2006 17,064 2007 15,517 This is information is from the Indian Medical Register at the Medical Council of India website http://www.mciindia.org/ as pulled out of my ass. Registration is what we would call licensing. The Indian Medical Council is the governing body for Indian medical schools. As in (major dirty word) licensing, although they call it recognition. Interesting reading for the intellectually curious. The demagogues can just look at the pretty pictures I guess.

" there is a strict limit on of 18,000 on licensing (graduation) " I didn't find this anywhere ...where did you get this if not from your ass. BTW, it takes just 5 years after high school in india to become a doctor (primary care) and i have found one of the best pimary care physicians in india.

I misspoke, the limits change year to year. You don't become a doctor in India in 5 years. You become a MBBS roughly equivalent to a masters degree. You also have to take 2 years of medical school courses in high school leading into medical school. After your MBBS you go on to post graduate courses. It's an additional 3 year course to an MD degree. If you want to specialize, such as surgery, there is an additional 3 years after that.

Just wait until NUMMI closes in March 2010. 4,600 direct jobs + 95,000 indirect but related jobs - GONE! Fremont and East Bay prices will see some more serious downward pressure coming soon. Any valuation today will be even lower next spring.

You don’t become a doctor in India in 5 years. You become a MBBS roughly equivalent to a masters degree. You also have to take 2 years of medical school courses in high school leading into medical school. After your MBBS you go on to post graduate courses. It’s an additional 3 year course to an MD degree. If you want to specialize, such as surgery, there is an additional 3 years after that. Dude i studied high school in india...To be qualified to prescribe medicines ( general physician -> MBBS), you need 12 years (elementary to high school) + 5.5 years (medical school) in INDIA ..period ! MD is for specialization. 2 years of medical school courses in high school is just biology, zoology and botany and is part of 10+2 curriculam. kids who want to do engineering take math, physics and chemistry during those years. The reason costs are high in US are due to pseudo- free market in health care. its worst of socialism + worst of capitalism. Supply side is screwed : doctors ( limited supply), equipment ( monopolies , long patents), drug monopolies.. demand side is screwed : patients are price insensitive ( due to third party payment) . If patients are price sensitive they will go to better HOSPITALS which have good credibility and give good care for less money. I thought price sensitivity of consumer is the backbone of a free market. when free market does not work..then obviously you have wastage and in-efficiency ( remember soviet union) The real fix is : 1. ease licencing and make it industry regulated. training should be based on market demand.kick out AMA lobby 2. ban all insurance except catastrophic medical insurance ( that too with 10% deductible which caps at 3X annual salary).This will get free market working for everything except catastrophies.It will also reduce admistrative costs.For people who are intellectually challenged, catastrophic medical insurance means insurance which also covers big ticket emergencies ( including accidents ...duh) 3. ban liability insurance and limit financial damages awarded to patients to 3X ( some number) the doctors annual salary.liability insurance defeats the purpose of creating fear in doctors against malpractice. 4. Reduce patent time period from 20 years to 10 ( like japan)..i am throwing a number but the time period should be just enough to motivate people to innovate and not long enough to be rent seeking. 5) Use the global supply of cheap skilled labor ( doctors)..create H1B's for doctors... we are using cheap labor everyplace. goods ( remote labor in china), engineering ( H1B's from india, china..etc), labor jobs ( cleaning, farming, construction) done mostly by illegals...etc, medicine has not opened up to cheap global supply of skilled labor which makes the service expensive RELATIVE to other services. If all the services were protected and were expensive : house cleaners getting 50k/year, engineering jobs $300k/year , auto jobs 100K/year, doctors salaries would look normal.

I like Some Guy's response. Short, and totally to the point.

Kudlow is a perma-bullsh*t artist who's always filly his oats and he's hot to trot to stirrup hopeful information but he's gone totally hay-wire. There's too much manure spreading when he piles it on. His sanity has left the barn, it behooves me to say. He should be given the boot since he's a heel who's hell bent for leather and never wants to pony up. That's my mane complaint. Give him no quarter because he tells too many tails and has lost track. He actually spooks me. Is he a friend or foal? Whoa, please spur me the drama.

heah, I believe this guy

In 1987 Kudlow was rehired by Bear, Stearns & Company as their chief economist and senior managing director. He was fired in 1994 after his drug use resulted in him missing an important client presentation.

Yea, the biggest problem for realwhores is that appraisers are using comps of actual sales, including short sales. Realwhores say that those aren't true comps, that they drive down the values.

This is a loaded topic. Shoot, I really don't care for a woman of this caliber. She needs to get the lead out. She's all pistol and vinegar and her aim is off. She should down a few Colt 45's, get hammered and take a powder. That would be a blast.

I'm considering a bid on a short sale in my area and would appreciate any advice and/or suggested strategies to expedite the process.

Will the RE listing agent, the mortgage servicing bank or the investor announce the appraisal value?

Will the RE listing price typically be at, above or below the appraisal value?

Should I bid at the asking price? Higher or lower?

Regards

Ray

Ray, your best bet is to research all of the comps, that is comparable sales, in your area. Size of home, year built, size of yard if applicable, amenities. These should all be looked at. You can find this info using zillow.com or redfin.com and their maps that can show you houses sold. This info will give you the basis of where your offer should be.

In the very small neighborhood I have my eye on, asking prices are all over the place. Some much higher than what they should be, some much lower (Usefull to create a bidding war), and some actually spot on.

As to the appraisal, the appraiser may not be familiar with the area due to new rules about appraisals. As such, the appraisal may come in higher, lower, or at the asking price.

I don't know if the appraisal will be shown to you as I haven't made it that far in the process yet. Be ready for a very long wait, lots of discouragment, and most likely your offer getting refused or not hearing from the selling agent at all. Things are terrible out here for anyone who isn't buying cash.

I have been a prospective buyer ever since I started reading the forums. This site has provided alot of information that helped me understand where the market should be for me to buy and how I can know when that time is. Its not there yet. Maybe next year.

I know, that's why I am still out. Prices are still too high, sellers and buyers still too crazy.

Prices are still too high, and the market is being blatantly manipulated. Artificial scarcity and a rush of demand due to temporarily low rates and an insulting $8000 buyers bribe. Let the fools pay $30k extra for their $8k bribes. I will have no part in it. I'll buy when it resembles a free market with reasonable prices.

As far as waiting, and being perfectly positioned for your dream home is just Patrick.net fantasy mantra…..always has been…always will be ----Well if you think Patrick.net is "fantasy mantra," why are you on his site?

Bap, I hope you don't mean I should move along. I am with Patrick's thinking. Oh yeah and my realtor told me that bank owned homes/property is taking longer to come on the market and the banks "are so backed up" and that it is taking longer to list them.

Ditto, to what Tude said. I am waiting for the economic collapse to happen when China will stop giving the US money. We will really hit a high unemployment rate then. At that point, houses will sell for next to nothing, only a matter of time. On top of that, I heard that China is buying 93 billion worth of gold. Most Americans turn a blind eye to what China is thinking and doing but the shit will hit the fan in a few years, maybe even sooner. I can't believe China hasn't pulled the plug yet because the US is a deadbeat nation that doesn't pay its bills.

nowhere but up from here says

Yahhhhhoooooooo…..thats what we did and “PAYDAY” baby…..house was gone in less than 2 weeks + 50K over asking price…..”can you smell what the Rock is cooking”…..and more NEW YORK (TheStreet) — Stocks moved slightly to the upside early Wednesday after a sharp increase in mortgage activity, ahead of another checkup on the U.S. economy, this one region by region. Meanwhile, the Mortgage Bankers Association said early Wednesday that its seasonally adjusted index of mortgage applications, including both purchase and refinance loans, increased 17% to 648.3 for the week ended Sept 4. That’s its highest level since May. I know things are bad but damn…..between the market, the house sold, all rentals full…all distressed homes for sale sold in my area and appreciating….it’s better now than in ‘07

Why did you sell your house if homes are appreciating?

Some Guy says

gloating when you make money in the market

How about these "PAYDAY" gloats: Homedebtors gloating about simply stopping mortgage payments and living free for two years Tenants gloating about simply stopping rent payments and living free for an extended period since the local sherriff has a "no evict" policy Of course, most of that gloating will be past tense, as not to endanger thier schemes.

Anyone like "nowhere but up from here" that comes on this board spouting his nonsense needs to get a life if they think an opinion that illogical will be agreed with here. On second thought, you know what, hell....after reading his crap, I changed my mind - he is right - nowhere but up from here. Sure - ya think we are THAT stupid, huh? Check the date 09/09/09 - lets meet back here in one year and you can tell me how much "homes" have appreciated (and call them what they are - they are houses - fuck you for trying to tie an emotional connection to a dwelling by overuse of the word home). With rates still in the 5% range, we are still down for the year. Any seasonal uptick that was had will evaporate before the year is over. There are too many houses vs. qualified buyers and unemployment is still going lower. My father in law who is a real estate broker told me the other day that ALL of his clients from the past 20 years have been refinanced into something less than 6%. There is nothing left for a broker to do but to hope for future sales or house prices to increase so people can run the equity pull-out game again...only to be refinanced again (cha ching - another broker fee). There is plenty of space for prices to go lower.

nowhere but up... please eat shit. I hope your "homes" sink you into financial ruin like the millions of people out there that have learned what a b.s. market this is.

Fuck buying. It's not worth to be enslaved for 30 yrs. I'm renting and enjoying my beach view rental home for one third the PITI price.

Same here, I have been patiently waiting, but the list prices are not even close to 2006 prices yet in my area sunnyvale/MV. Unfortunately, they think the recovery already started and they are entitled to NAR's bullshit appreciation of 10% YoY. I guess, my wait will continue for couple more years, I am in no hurry, but it is really frustrating.

Bap33 says

just some dreamer REwhore blowing smoke. Move along, nothing to see here ….

Agreed - Most likely lives in his mother's basement, surrounded by pictures of Sarah Palin.