patrick.net

By the way, Trump is starting to sound more and more like a corporate Republican every day. His tax plan this last week follows the standard trickle-down economics template that the Republicans have been espousing for over 30 years now, with tax-cuts for the rich under the guise of "simplification", and higher deficits.

And the infrastructure plan will be a massive waste of money, probably mostly remodeling of airports, which is the LAST thing we should do.

Another one: Do not ask what Trump can do for America, ask what America can do for Trump.

rando says

theoakman says

Trump may not have anything to offer either...but he's really good at pissing off all these useless politicians that had a stranglehold on Washington. That's good enough for me. I can deal with 4 years of absolutely zero legislation and him pissing people off.

Yes!

Patrick, think long and hard at what would have to transpire in order for "four years of absolutely zero" to result. You're not one of the simple-minded burn-it-downers, but you're presuming, as many of them are, a low-odds condition to indulge a disgust we all have for politics as usual. Trump is so woefully unprepared. Period. Full stop. What are you willing to risk in the lives of others in order to have this satisfaction? Begin your answer with the SCOTUS and work down through the consequence tree. I don't think you're serious, at least I hope you're not serious.

I'm serious. I think Trump is far less of a threat to everyone's lives.

Hillary is going to start a war with Iran, because her Saudi masters want her to. Just like Bush started a war in Iraq for them.

rando says

Hillary is going to start a war with Iran, because her Saudi masters want her to. Just like Bush started a war in Iraq for them.

No, she won't because it's too recent in the political mind, and it was too disastrous in outcome. It led to too much travail in the Obama administration dealing with the bullshit fallout. She's nothing if not observant.

But you're not even part of the way there. You'll trade all the cultural gains from gay marriage and equal protection under the law to Roe V. Wade, and keep Citizens United in a gambit that Clinton is more bellicose than Trump? Really? The guy who had to ask three or four times why we mustn't use Nukes?

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/290217-scarborough-trump-asked-about-adviser-about-using-nuclear

Really? You think he is less of a risk to domestic and international violence? Based on what? Please don't just bash Clinton....that's easy, too easy. For once, address Trump qua Trump and give some reason how he will handle complexity and nuance when he has never shown that ability.

It's one thing to say the current system sucks. No one disagrees. But when you're forced to say something dispositive about Trump....qua Trump.....all you really have is a burn-it-down nihilism that is beneath you and a standard of presumption about Clinton you won't apply to Trump.

www.youtube.com/embed/rTt-xhF02Gg

Sure, if Iran attacks Israel. That can be arranged.

Trump is rather isolationist. In terms of defense, I like that. Much better than Hillary/Bush warmongering.

rando says

Sure, if Iran attacks Israel. That can be arranged.

"We will be able to totally obliterate them." - Hillary Clinton

So, she's talking genocide by means of nukes, right?

The opposition of the USA would like nothing more than prolonged ineffective governance

They've gotten that for about 50 straight years

Is there even a single poll where trump leads?? If Hildebeest wins ,w e are doomed to neoliberal fascism.

rando says

Sure, if Iran attacks Israel. That can be arranged.

Trump is rather isolationist. In terms of defense, I like that. Much better than Hillary/Bush warmongering.

OK, we'll just have to agree to disagree. What about the rest. Why so quiescent? None of it matters? It's outweighed by speculation of warfare?

rando says

Trump is rather isolationist. In terms of defense, I like that. Much better than Hillary/Bush warmongering.

The way Hillary has been carrying on about Russia, it's like another McCarthyism, except Russia isn't a Communist Country anymore.

I also worry that most of the Cold Warriors are dead or retired - not just the generals, but the diplomats, intelligence guys, etc. Hillary's generation entered the national stage after the USSR was kaput; their experience has been pushing around Serbia, Syria, Iraq, etc. The fear is that they approach a country with thousands of nukes the way they bully around dictators, we are going to have trouble.

What's ironic is that demographically, materially, scientifically, China is likely the main Rival of the 21st Century, and there the US seems to be much more cautious if not downright helpful with our Trade Policies. They're claiming those islands (many of which ROC/Taiwan also claims, btw), they're building big airfields with hardened hangers and SAMs, and they are blowing off US Objections. Unless the US is willing to use the trade weapon, I don't see any way short of war we can stop China from expanding into the South China Sea.

Don't think the Filipino 1940s WW2 USCG cutters armed with only twin .50 cal are going to put a clamper on China's doings. Malaysia certainly won't. Vietnam can't, because China can retaliate way too easy.

Imagine if the US went to War FOR Communist Vietnam.

turtledove says

I remain aghast by either his complete lack of social grace or his inability to listen to his own image advisors. The fact that people are willing to look the other way at Hillary's SERIOUS issues just goes to show how much people would rather have a polished crook than an ignoble loudmouth as President of the US. On the good side, if people are pissed now, they will be downright riotous by the time 2020 nears. A 3rd Obama term will ensure that.

You are very right. Hillary has major issues, but comparatively, I think the nation takes her.

2020 could be even more ugly than this year. Yes indeed. There is an even higher potential for a Trump like authoritarian demagogue to take the reigns.

I'm not going to hold my breath, but all it would take to capture the presidency in 2020 would be: an unknown outsider, that could stand the vetting, running on the single issue of fighting for the middle class and restoring balance to the economy. Big establishment money would poop themselves to watch a crowd funded candidate rise and unseat them. The trick would be to get enough initial notice, but Trump and Sanders are proof that the public is so ready ... and it can be done.

An outsider can point to how politics is being captured by dollar interest, and there isn't anything really the establishment has to fight that. The fact that that is becoming a unifying issue (right and left actually agree on) will clinch it.

I just fear a little bit, that we last in relative good order, to allow someone to be able to come in and actually address that. Does the world economic situation, war, a deflationary recession, or something else come and knock that off the table? Bush was the most popular president ever, for about two weeks, post 911. If something like that occurs under the next administration ... all bets are off on domestic economic issues getting addressed. Nothing unifies a tribe like an enemy.

Rew says

You are very right. Hillary has major issues

Yes, there is the email server thing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out her criminal treasonous intent there. Also let's remember Bill BJ in the whitehouse. Thank god we were all informed about that.

And the Clinton foundation ? Give me a break ! As if an ex-President would actually have an interest in using his post Presidential power to do good in the world ? We all know it's just about him lining his pockets. C'mon people ! This is America ! People don't do things for altruistic reasons of thinking they made a difference, no, no ! It's always about putting money away for you know, yachts, third homes, and trust funds for their descendents. Those big speaking fees (for being intelligent high level wonks) were never going to be enough for the Clintons. They wanted to disgrace Bill Clinton's foundation and go down in history as criminals.

It's all so obvious.

marcus says

Give me a break !

Why don't you give everyone else a break? We're trying to have an actual conversation about things. If you want to sit there and pretend that Hillary doesn't have a serious lying problem then don't expect to be taken seriously. She has, in fact, lied about several serious issues, under oath, no less. Hillary will say anything to win. And Trump will just say anything... Hillary will do anything to win. God only knows what Trump would do -- that's kind of the problem. We're well beyond "lesser of two evils." Hillary is a pathological liar, and her history of such behavior extends decades. Trump says outrageous things that make him look crazy. He has a long history of dropped-ball undertakings, to put it kindly. He reminds me of my grandfather who would say things that were anachronistic to say the least. I have greater faith that Hillary won't make a habit of saying things that will make me cringe in embarrassment about being a US citizen. I can't say the same thing about Trump. Trump, on the other hand, voices many of the concerns that many citizens have these days... I personally, would like to see these issues addressed. Unfortunately, you just have to pick those statements out of diatribes consisting of a great deal of flotsam. If you think there's a simple answer here, you aren't paying very close attention. Are you capable to looking at your candidate honestly, at all? I forgot... There's nothing to see, there.

turtledove says

Why don't you give everyone else a break? We're trying to have an actual conversation about things. If you want to sit there and pretend that Hillary doesn't have a serious lying problem then don't expect to be taken seriously. She has, in fact, lied about several serious issues, under oath, no less. Hillary will say anything to win.

Examples ? Evidence ?

turtledove says

Hillary will do anything to win.

Examples ? Evidence ?

turtledove says

Hillary is a pathological liar, and her history of such behavior extends decades.

Still waiting. Great assertions. Just like mine, but without the sarcasm.

turtledove says

Are you capable to looking at your candidate honestly, at all?

I think so. And I keep waitng for the compelling arguments that must be there somewhere behind those emotions. Why don't you get busy on the internet right now and see what you can find. I know you don't have any examples burned in to your memory becasue they were so flagrant.

Email server ? Official story (speculation) about the causes of Benghazi attack (for the first couple days). Yes, I get it, in a republicans fantasy filled mind these are criminal beyond belief.

I'll keep waiting.

I'm sure you can come up with lies, where she changed her mind, or misspoke. But are they really of a different magnitude than other politicians ?

Trump is at a different level. People that try to quantify these things say he lies 5 times as much as Hillary.

turtledove says

We're trying to have an actual conversation about things

Btw, you should be able to EASILY translate my hyperbolic and sarcastic comment into part of the conversation, and what I wanted to say. I don't always love Hillary's voice. She lacks charisma. I doubt I'll be replaying her speeches or correspondence dinner remarks the way I do Obama's because of how awesome he is. And yes there are some things I'm not thrilled about with HIllary. She's not nearly progressive enough for my taste, and she is a little bit on the hawkish side. But that might be good in terms of keeping some international tensions in check.

Hillary is a very serious person. I have never seen her characterized as a clown, not even by her detractors. Whereas even many many many highly respected republicans see Trump as a clown.

But polls are moving away from the margin of error range and into strong leads. He still has time to right the ship, but it is getting late in the game. egads-another neoliberal feminazi, free trade, SJW lover is all this country needs.

marcus says

I think what the Donald wants is to destroy the dollar, because he has so much of his wealth tied up in leveraged real estate.

Oh wow! Who knew you knew DT's holdings.
How much is DT in debt?
How exposed is he to a dollar decline?
What are the LTV ratios on his properties?
I've heard he's invested overseas... if the dollar falls will his wealth increase or decline?
What is the proportional weighting of DT's investments? Overseas vs. domestic?
What is DT's stock equity vs debt ratio?
What are the chances a broken down maths teacher here on PatNet can answer these questions?

BTW. I know one of these answers. Wanna guess which one? (While you're guessing on the others)

P.S. Even though you blocked me, I can still grab the source and see your posts.

Rew says

You are very right. Hillary has major issues, but comparatively, I think the nation takes her.

I agree with your assertion here, it's just inconceivable why the nation would prefer a major criminal over a hip-shooting, brash business man. I wish Perot would have won back then and set a precedent.

I think it will come down to voter turnout. Whichever party is more energized by their candidate will go to the polls in greater numbers resulting in a win for that candidate.

mell says

I agree with your assertion here, it's just inconceivable why the nation would prefer a major criminal over a hip-shooting, brash business man. I wish Perot would have won back then and set a precedent

I still think he has time, though it is getting short. Are there that many SJWs in this country? I shudder to think of the day when the welfare freaks become the majority-I guess communism -we are here!

turtledove says

Hillary is a pathological liar, and her history of such behavior extends decades.

Still waiting. Great assertions. Just like mine, but without the sarcasm.

Dude, do you even Google? Everybody knows this bitch lies:
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/statements/byruling/false/
The Atlantic sez she is a liar:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/why-hillary-clinton-keeps-lying/493841/
Politico agrees:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/hillary-clinton-emails-history-214095
The Observer:
http://observer.com/2016/08/short-circuit-damage-to-us-security-hillarys-lies-and-amiris-execution/

Or....just look up Lying Bitch on the urban dictionary:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lying%20bitch

In a contest of liars Hillary and Trump would both do excellent ...

Hillary ...

Trump ...

http://www.politifact.com

Quigley says

I think it will come down to voter turnout. Whichever party is more energized by their candidate will go to the polls in greater numbers resulting in a win for that candidate.

I think the force driving turn out will actually be being scared to death of the other candidate, not being energized by the candidate they choose.

Robert Sproul says

The Atlantic sez she is a liar:

Yes, they are focusing on this lie:

On Sunday, the former secretary of state told FOX News’ Chris Wallace that FBI Director James Comey cleared her of misleading the public about her rogue email server at the state department: “Director Comey said my answers were truthful, and what I’ve said is consistent with what I have told the American people, that there were decisions discussed and made to classify retroactively certain of the emails.”

YEah, she screwed up there, but it's pretty minor and somewhat innocent is my view. Obviously she means that most of her answers were truthful. The fact that they weren't all truthful, makes her saying that he cleared her on all counts an additional lie. Yes, it's careless of her. Are these big lies, or are these lies her trying to cover her ass for a mistake she made that the wolves are jumping on her for ?

This is not a pathological liar. It's someone who is constantly being hounded by those who want to hurt her politically, making an error in judgement when defending herself over details.

Quite a contrast to people's whose entire world views are made up fiction.

Robert Sproul says

Or....just look up Lying Bitch on the urban dictionary:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lying%20bitch

There ya go