patrick.net

anonymous says

@Patrick. Here is one from the other day. There are many more taking place. While I was watching the news covering this, the minister in the article was shouted at with slurs & insults during his interview with the reporter by someone in a passing car.

/politics/2016/11/11/vp-elect-pences-hometown-students-face-build-wall-taunts/93648774/?ref=patrick.net">http://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2016/1

In VP-elect Pence's hometown, students face 'Build that wall!' taunts.

You have the right to being a dick. You don't have the right to physical violence (unless in self-defense). This doesn't compare to the headline originally posted.

Electoral College elects Hillary Clinton.
Right wing fuck nutz jump up & cheer
have a parade,hold a massive celebration
because they love the Constitution.

Patrick says

By the way, there was no genocide against the Indians. It was smallpox.

Yes, Native Americans Were the Victims of Genocide

Settler colonialism requires a genocidal policy. Native nations and communities, while struggling to maintain fundamental values and collectivity, have from the beginning resisted modern colonialism using both defensive and offensive techniques, including the modern forms of armed resistance of national liberation movements and what now is called terrorism. In every instance they have fought and continue to fight for survival as peoples. The objective of US authorities was to terminate their existence as peoples—not as random individuals. This is the very definition of modern genocide.

Settler-colonialism requires violence or the threat of violence to attain its goals, which then forms the foundation of the United States’ system. People do not hand over their land, resources, children, and futures without a fight, and that fight is met with violence. In employing the force necessary to accomplish its expansionist goals, a colonizing regime institutionalizes violence. The notion that settler-indigenous conflict is an inevitable product of cultural differences and misunderstandings, or that violence was committed equally by the colonized and the colonizer, blurs the nature of the historical processes. Euro-American colonialism, an aspect of the capitalist economic globalization, had from its beginnings a genocidal tendency.

Within the logic of settler-colonialism, genocide was the inherent overall policy of the United States from its founding, but there are also specific documented policies of genocide on the part of US administrations that can be identified in at least four distinct periods: the Jacksonian era of forced removal; the California gold rush in Northern California; during the Civil War and in the post Civil War era of the so-called Indian Wars in the Southwest and the Great Plains; and the 1950s termination period; additionally, there is the overlapping period of compulsory boarding schools, 1870s to 1960s. The Carlisle boarding school, founded by US Army officer Richard Henry Pratt in 1879, became a model for others established by the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA). Pratt said in a speech in 1892, "A great general has said that the only good Indian is a dead one. In a sense, I agree with the sentiment, but only in this: that all the Indian there is in the race should be dead. Kill the Indian in him and save the man."

Cases of genocide carried out as policy may be found in historical documents as well as in the oral histories of Indigenous communities. An example from 1873 is typical, with General William T. Sherman writing, “We must act with vindictive earnestness against the Sioux, even to their extermination, men, women and children . . . during an assault, the soldiers can not pause to distinguish between male and female, or even discriminate as to age.”

We cannot change the past, but to whitewash history is to condone its atrocities. Yes, the colonies and the United States committed many genocides. Yes, it was a deliberate effort to wipe out entire peoples including children to steal their land. Yes, it worked. Yes, we still benefit from these crimes. The only thing we can do about it now is admit the truth.

@Dan8267 You provided no evidence for genocide whatsoever. That article is nothing but weak propaganda.

It was smallpox and various other diseases that killed >90% of the Indians. Indians were very thin on the ground for the entire existence of the United States. The number who were deliberately killed is trivial by comparison.

You need more?

LA Times: It's time to acknowledge the genocide of California's Indians

Between 1846 and 1870, California’s Indian population plunged from perhaps 150,000 to 30,000. Diseases, dislocation and starvation caused many of these deaths, but the near-annihilation of the California Indians was not the unavoidable result of two civilizations coming into contact for the first time. It was genocide, sanctioned and facilitated by California officials.

Neither the U.S. government nor the state of California has acknowledged that the California Indian catastrophe fits the two-part legal definition of genocide set forth by the United Nations Genocide Convention in 1948. According to the convention, perpetrators must first demonstrate their “intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such.” Second, they must commit one of the five genocidal acts listed in the convention: “Killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”

In 1860, they extended the 1850 act to legalize “indenture” of “any Indian.” These laws triggered a boom in violent kidnappings while separating men and women during peak reproductive years, both of which accelerated the decline of the California Indian population. Some Indians were treated as disposable laborers. One lawyer recalled: “Los Angeles had its slave mart [and] thousands of honest, useful people were absolutely destroyed in this way.” Between 1850 and 1870, L.A.’s Indian population fell from 3,693 to 219.

It is not an exaggeration to say that California legislators also established a state-sponsored killing machine. California governors called out or authorized no fewer than 24 state militia expeditions between 1850 and 1861, which killed at least 1,340 California Indians. State legislators also passed three bills in the 1850s that raised up to $1.51 million to fund these operations — a great deal of money at the time — for past and future anti-Indian militia operations. By demonstrating that the state would not punish Indian killers, but instead reward them, militia expeditions helped inspire vigilantes to kill at least 6,460 California Indians between 1846 and 1873.

The U.S. Army and their auxiliaries also killed at least 1,680 California Indians between 1846 and 1873. Meanwhile, in 1852, state politicians and U.S. senators stopped the establishment of permanent federal reservations in California, thus denying California Indians land while exposing them to danger.

State endorsement of genocide was only thinly veiled. In 1851, California Gov. Peter Burnett declared that “a war of extermination will continue to be waged ... until the Indian race becomes extinct.” In 1852, U.S. Sen. John Weller — who became California’s governor in 1858 — went further. He told his colleagues in the Senate that California Indians “will be exterminated before the onward march of the white man,” arguing that “the interest of the white man demands their extinction.”

Newsweek: The State-Sanctioned Genocide of Native Americans

A group of soldiers pose with their guns during the Modoc Indian War in 1873. What happened to California Native Americans in the mid-19th century was not all that different from what happened to Jews, Armenians or Rwandans, says Benjamin Madley, author of 'An American Genocide."

There have been books written about the systematic slaughter of California Indians, but none as gruesomely thorough as Benjamin Madley’s An American Genocide, from which the above accounts come. He estimates that between 9,000 and 16,000 Indians, though probably many more, were killed by vigilantes, state militiamen and federal soldiers between 1846 and 1873, in what he calls an “organized destruction” of the state’s largely peaceful indigenous peoples.

“I calculated the death toll using conservative estimates,” Madley tells me. “I did not want to be accused of exaggeration.” His book shows that the intent to rid California of its indigenous inhabitants was openly and repeatedly voiced, and that the means to achieve these ends were unambiguously brutal: mass deportations, slavery, massacres. He argues that what happened to California Indians was, according to the most widely accepted definition of genocide, not all that different from what happened to Jews, Armenians or Rwandans.

The debate over genocide in Native American history often turns to California, where the Native American population fell dramatically, from about 150,000 to 30,000, in the middle decades of the 19th century.

The United States Army often participated in the mass killing, making Capitol Hill complicit in what was happening in the goldfields of the Sierra Nevada and elsewhere in California. In the winter of 1849, Indians wanting freedom killed Andrew Kelsey and Charles Stone, two slavers in what is today Lake County. In revenge, federal infantry and cavalry detachments attacked a village at Clear Lake. On May 15, 1850, they “poured in destructive fire indiscriminately upon men, women and children,” according to one account. As many as 800 members of the Pomo tribe were killed at what has come to be known as Bloody Island. “It took them four or five days to gather up the dead,” one survivor remembered.

A village of Yokayas on the Russian River was attacked by U.S. troops just days later, in what their commander deemed “a perfect slaughter pen.” Yokaya casualties may have been as high as 100. The U.S. troops lost no men, though two suffered wounds.

Much of the slaughter was carried out by state militias, which enjoyed financial support from both Sacramento and Washington, D.C. In Round Valley, north of San Francisco, the Eel River Rangers were so prolific in their murder of the Yuki that even some white observers became alarmed. “The killing of Indians is a daily occurrence,” reported California’s head of Indian affairs. “If some means be not speedily devised, by which the unauthorized expeditions that are constantly out in search of them can be restrained, they will soon be exterminated.”

One of the killers sent a bill to California: $11,143. The state paid it nearly in full. Madley notes that of the $1.5 million that California spent on 24 different Indian-killing militia campaigns between 1850 and 1861, Congress paid the state back all but $200,000.

Jewish Journal: Hitler’s Inspiration and Guide: The Native American Holocaust

8,000 Navajos were forced to walk more than 300 miles at gunpoint from their ancestral homelands in northeastern Arizona and northwestern New Mexico to an internment camp in Bosque Redondo, which was a desolate tract on the Pecos River in eastern New Mexico. Many died along the way. From 1863 to 1868, the U.S. Military persecuted and imprisoned 9,500 Navajo (the Diné) and 500 Mescalero Apache (the N’de). Living under armed guards, in holes in the ground, with extremely scarce rations, it is no wonder that more than 3,500 Navajo and Mescalero Apache men, women, and children died while in the concentration camp.

Hitler's concept of concentration camps as well as the practicality of genocide owed much, so he claimed, to his studies of English and United States history. He admired the camps for Boer prisoners in South Africa and for the Indians in the wild west; and often praised to his inner circle the efficiency of America's extermination—by starvation and uneven combat—of the red savages who could not be tamed by captivity.

He was very interested in the way the Indian population had rapidly declined due to epidemics and starvation when the United States government forced them to live on the reservations. He thought the American government's forced migrations of the Indians over great distances to barren reservation land was a deliberate policy of extermination. Just how much Hitler took from the American example of the destruction of the Indian nations is hard to say; however, frightening parallels can be drawn. For some time Hitler considered deporting the Jews to a large 'reservation' in the Lubin area where their numbers would be reduced through starvation and disease.

Gold, Greed & Genocide

Over 150,000 Native Americans lived sustainably in California prior to the gold rush. They had existed for many centuries, supporting themselves mostly by hunting, gathering and fishing. This life changed drastically in 1848 when James Marshall discovered the yellow metal in the American River at Coloma, in Northern California.

By 1870, there was an estimated native population of only 31,000 Californian Indians left. Over 60 percent of these indigenous people died from disease introduced by hundreds of thousands of so-called 49ers. However, local tribes were also systematically chased off their lands, marched to missions and reservations, enslaved and brutally massacred.

In 1851, the California State government paid $1 million for scalping missions. You could still get $5 for a severed Indian head in Shasta in 1855, and twenty five cents for a scalp in Honey Lake in 1863.

Over 4,000 Native American children were sold - prices ranged from $60 for a boy to $200 for a girl.

The girls fetched a much higher price because they were sex slaves.

And if you're still not convinced by all those facts, listen to what Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. -- yes, that MLK -- said. Dr. King spoke out against the genocide of Native Americans

“Our nation was born in genocide when it embraced the doctrine that the original American, the Indian, was an inferior race. Even before there were large numbers of Negroes on our shores, the scar of racial hatred had already disfigured colonial society. From the sixteenth century forward, blood flowed in battles of racial supremacy. We are perhaps the only nation which tried as a matter of national policy to wipe out its Indigenous population. Moreover, we elevated that tragic experience into a noble crusade. Indeed, even today we have not permitted ourselves to reject or feel remorse for this shameful episode. Our literature, our films, our drama, our folklore all exalt it.”

Woefully, Dr. King’s words still ring true to this very day in so many respects. But King’s poignant words on the tragic history of Native Americans are largely unknown in mainstream society.

Image what the world's reaction would be if Germany started denying the Holocaust because it didn't want the shame. The world would get pissed off and remind Germany of its past. Well, it's no surprise that Russia is building a American Indian Genocide Memorial in front of U.S. embassy in Moscow.

Last week it was made known that the Civic Chamber of the Russian Federation—a Russian analogue to the U.S. House Committee on Oversight, which has consultative powers—is planning to put forward a proposal for the installation of a memorial by the site of the U.S. Embassy in Moscow, dedicated to the “genocide of the American Indians,” according to the RIA News Agency.

The request for permission to install such a monument was sent to the Administration of Russian President Vladimir Putin, to the Civic Chamber of the Russian Federation and to the Moscow city authorities.

“The initiative to install the monument [near the US Embassy] is very timely as an act that will remind [people today] from where the history of the USA started,” stated member of the Civic Chamber Valery Korovin, who supported the proposal. “This monument must become the silent reproach to the modern American elites which had significantly deviated from the idealistic principles that were laid into the foundation of the American state.”

According to Mr. Korovin, the Civic Chamber of the Russian Federation should also appeal to the U.S. Congress to consider the “rehabilitation” of American Indians “as the native people of the United States, to admit the fact of their genocide by the US Government, to carry out the act of national repentance and thus to close this dark chapter of the U.S. history.”

I could go on and one, but this post is already very long and I think I've made my point.

Again, you have not made your point at all.

Some relatively small number from a small population of remaining Indians were killed.

The vast majority had died long before that from smallpox.

So your argument is that since the vast majority died from disease, it wasn't a genocide. Well, that's not the definition of genocide.

Genocide

the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.

The history of America most certainly meets this definition. The fact that disease killed off more people than the genocides does not change the fact that the genocides did occur Nor does it diminish the significance of the genocides. In fact, the significance of the murders is even greater since the population was already greatly diminished.

The fact is that the U.S. government at the federal, state, and local level deliberately killed large groups of Native Americans both directly and indirectly with bounties. That's genocide regardless of how many had died before from smallpox. I'm not saying we blame the government for smallpox, but we should definitely blame the government for the Trail of Tears, the Sand Creek Massacre, the Wounded Knee Massacre, the Gnadenhutten Massacre, and a hundred years of promoting and paying for the killing of Native Americans.

The bottom line is that there would be a hell of a lot more descendants of those Native Americans today if it weren't for these genocides, and that's the entire purpose of genocide, to get rid of people. Yeah, disease killed more, but that does not alter the fact that our government committed genocide. It was immoral, and it is hypocritical for a country that prides itself as the best country in the world, the freest, and the most righteous. And ultimately, it just looks worst when we deny our country's history because that says we haven't learned our lesson.

Dan8267 says

the deliberate killing of a large group of people

But there was not the deliberate killing of a large group of people.

There was the deliberate killing of a fairly small number of people.

rando says

But there was not the deliberate killing of a large group of people.

There was the deliberate killing of a fairly small number of people.

OK, then exactly where do you draw the line in numbers? Between 1850 and 1870, over a hundred thousand Native Americans were killed in California alone, largely due to the bounties placed on their heads. Is that not enough to count as a genocide?

Estimates of the Native American population before colonization vary from 2 million to 20 million. Let's use the lowest estimate, 2 million. Let's also say that 90% of the deaths of Native Americans were caused by diseases. Let's even ignore the intentional infection of Native Americans by Europeans who were very fond of using germ warfare since the Middle Ages. Even with these most conservative estimates, that leaves 10% of 2 million, or 200,000 Native Americans killed by deliberate starvation or direct murder. Is that not enough to be called a genocide?

The United Nations estimates the Darfur Genocide at 300,000 .

To put the 200,000 figure in perspective -- and remember that this is the uttermost conservative estimate we can justify -- image if the Native Americans killed every single white man, woman, and child in the American colonies in the year 1690. Would you consider that genocide? I would.

Patrick says

Leftist violence arrives in high schools

I don't condone it or support it, but calling it "leftist" is mislabeling it.

Anti-(percieved) evil douchebag, is not leftist. These kids were for CLinton, a republican by any sane standard. Nobody actually knows where Trump is on the political spectrum, becasue he was just lying like crazy to get in power. Most of his political positions during the campaign, contradict his earlier positions (when he was over 60 years of age).

marcus says you made your bed says

I don't condone it or support it, but calling it "leftist" is mislabeling it.

No, calling it liberal would be mislabeling it. Calling it leftist is very accurate.

rando says

Dan8267 says

the deliberate killing of a large group of people

But there was not the deliberate killing of a large group of people.

There was the deliberate killing of a fairly small number of people.

Nice play on words. Since no one has any real idea of the indian population pre columbus how do you come up with this? If smallpox killed 90%, most of whom died before any real colonization, then there was killing of a substantial percentage of the remaining population. Which number matters?

Anyone making a blanket statement either way on such a complex situation played out over centuries is an idiot. This, in a nutshell, is the entire problem with modern day america. There are only extreme positions played out in black or white espoused by huge numbers of people who simply refuse to think, preferring to be lead along by whichever set of trite slogans and manifestly false assertions that happens to match what they want to believe.

Gropey McGroperson says

There wont be. All those cities...the police are barely enforcing order. Might have something to do with the fact that the protesters are organized and paid for by groups founded by George Soros, and ironically, the future political careers of Mayors of those cities relies on.....George Soros.

Want to document that somehow? The number of groups funded by Soros/liberals is a rounding error compared to the number of groups funded by koch/libertarians. Not that you would have any interest in knowing the facts, but try reading dark money to find out how large and pervasive the libertarian political/propaganda machine is.

Alcohol for the rednecks, pot for the libbies, mind altering religions for the masses.
We blame it on stupidity, but that is just the result of...

bob2356 says

huge numbers of people who simply refuse to think

We need an actual count.
The statements below are too ambiguous.
We live in a world of 1's and 0's...

rando says

Some relatively small number

Dan says

the deliberate killing of a large group

so a base2 accounting is acceptable...

That Craigslist "ad" has been circulated and clearly fake. Most I've seen mention a known troll.

It's eagerly passed around as proof of the most ridiculous conspiracy yet.

Dan8267 says

No, calling it liberal would be mislabeling it. Calling it leftist is very accurate.

Dan, can you please elaborate and explain the difference between the two? They are usually used synonymously, but if they shouldn't, it would be helpful to understand the difference.

And Marcus, from what I picked up, you are a teacher? Are there any laws, regulations, or policies that teachers have to adhere to when it comes to not delivering education from a particular political angle? Of course I understand there is a fine line and enforceability of something like this would be very gray.

In CA, 63% of voters voted blue this election. From what I understand however, much more than 63% of CA teachers and much more than 63% of CA students voted blue however. That's not a coincidence is it?

Also, does anyone know what PD is responsible for Woodside? Apparently it isn't Redwood City:

http://kron4.com/2016/11/12/redwood-city-police-respond-to-attack-of-young-trump-supporter/

Between the school and police, I'm quite interested in what disciplinary action will come down for this hate crime.

marcus says you made your bed says

Nobody actually knows where Trump is on the political spectrum, becasue he was just lying like crazy to get in power.

Yes, listening to him pander to evangelicals as an atheist, flip flop 3 times on the same day on abortion, spending the majority of his life as a NY lib, etc supports that.

But as crazy as it sounds, it's not what he believes that matters so much as sticking to his promises that got him elected that matters.

And by the way @Patrick, what smartphone are you using to take the pic above? Iphone3? 😜

bob2356 says

Gropey McGroperson says

There wont be. All those cities...the police are barely enforcing order. Might have something to do with the fact that the protesters are organized and paid for by groups founded by George Soros, and ironically, the future political careers of Mayors of those cities relies on.....George Soros.

Want to document that somehow? The number of groups funded by Soros/liberals is a rounding error compared to the number of groups funded by koch/libertarians. Not that you would have any interest in knowing the facts, but try reading dark money to find out how large and pervasive the libertarian political/propaganda machine is.

I don't see fake movement of conservative marching in the streets. If there was someone finding Cliven bundy, so be it, but that hasn't received 1/100th of the coverage the fake BLM movement did. I think it's a bit of a stretch to expect the backers of the current four day old protests to be uncovered by a msm with no interest in doing so, but I think it's very reasonable to assume based on prior events:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/08/16/hacked-soros-memo-baltimore-riots-provide-unique-opportunity-reform-police/amp/?client=safari

Keep in mind source doesn't really matter since there's an actual internal memo.

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/14/george-soros-funds-ferguson-protests-hopes-to-spur/

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/black-lives-matter-cashes-100-million-liberal-foun/

Patrick has colonial tendencies. He really likes the idea of empire. Face it guys. He is probably correct that, compared to the oppression and killing of the Aborigines and the Palestinians, colonial America may not have killed or displaced as many native Americans. But, since nobody kept track, it is hard to tell. America was a colonial power with ideas of what is called MANIFEST DESTINY. Israel has the same doctrine. I assume that the criminals who almost killed most of the 750 thousand Aborigines also had the same doctrine.

So, Patrick, I wrote this on my personal blog at Talkmarkets: http://www.talkmarkets.com/contributor/gary-anderson/blog/global-markets/billionaire-fascism-is-on-the-rise-risking-financial-instability?post=95461&uid=4798

Throughout history, those who colonize treat the victims as less than human. Blacks, native Americans (savages), Aborigines, etc, were not fully human. Well, Sheldon Adelson tries a different course, but it is really the same. He says that the Palestinians did not exist. They were not a people, even though 750k lived in Palestine with the True Torah Jews in peace prior to Zionism. To say they were not a people is a lie because Israel replaced them with Zionist refugees and took their cities. http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

So, Gropey, there were witnesses who said that the kids who went to the bus hub in Baltimore were not allowed to get on buses and leave for home. They were detained for the purposes of a riot. The police wanted it. That does not surprise me and it was probably backed by Homeland Security, founded by Zionist Skeletor, Michael Chertoff. #skeletor

You have to remember, COINTELPRO was factually proven by a breakin to an FBI office. I believe that what happened in Baltimore and Ferguson was a continuation of COINTELPRO, probably administered by Homeland Security.

BayArea says

it's not what he believes that matters so much as sticking to his promises that got him elected that matters

Which promises do you believe he will stick to ?

Gary Anderson says

those who colonize treat the victims as less than human

I agree with you. This accounts for a lot of the blaming of the Irish for the famine at the time, while boatloads of food were being exported to England.

And currently we are seeing the attempted de-humanization of white people, by casting all white people as inherently racist. Once an entire group is stigmatized with an inherent guilt based on the color of their skin, it becomes easy to harm them.

rando says

And currently we are seeing the attempted de-humanization of white people, by casting all white people as inherently racist.

That is made worse by Trump's election. I have gone into stores and have had to seek out the glances of people of color and smile and assure them with that smile that I am not Trump nor do I care for Trump. I am encouraged that you see the colonization issue, Patrick. I just believe that Trump is an uglier manifestation of empire than Clinton would have been. I think he believes in division and wants white America to be great again, with possible foreign policy ramifications.

The deluded nazis that voted for Trump sound just like the deluded liberals who voted for Obama. The results will be the same a few years down the road.

bob2356 says

Anyone making a blanket statement either way on such a complex situation played out over centuries is an idiot.

That's a cop-out. One can easily call the Holocaust a genocide. Is that a blanked statement of a complex situation? Greed and tribalism aren't complex. The motivations of those who commit genocide aren't subtle and complicated. They are just greedy assholes who don't give a shit about human life that's not part of their tribe. Evolution sometimes comes up with simple solutions and hardwires simple motivations in animals.

Ranina ranina says

We need an actual count.

The statements below are too ambiguous.

An actual account, the lowest possible estimate, was provided. But absolute numbers don't matter.

If the entire population of Jews today were 1000 people and the state decided to eradicate all 1000 for the purpose of eliminating the ethnic group, then that would be a genocide. It is the intent, the systematic depopulating or elimination of a people, that is the defining characteristic of genocide, not the absolute number of people killed.

A nuclear war, not directed at any specific people, that wiped out 90% of the world's population would not meet the definition of genocide.

rando says

And currently we are seeing the attempted de-humanization of white people, by casting all white people as inherently racist

Wtf ?

JUst don't know about you Patrick.

Gary Anderson says

Patrick has colonial tendencies. He really likes the idea of empire

I sincerely doubt that given Patrick's statements regarding the British empire and England's treatment of the Irish.

rando says

And currently we are seeing the attempted de-humanization of white people, by casting all white people as inherently racist.

I'll be the first person to call bullshit on race-baiting, but admitting the truths of history, no matter how horrifying, is not race-baiting. We acknowledge what really happen in history so that we can prevent the mistakes and atrocities of history from being repeated. This is why we look at all those disgusting pictures of the Holocaust in history class. And yes, you are suppose to hate the Nazis when looking at them. Hate serves a good purpose. The purpose of hate is to deny evil the benefits of cooperation and the power it could acquire through cooperation.

Furthermore, by condemning the Americans of the past who committed these atrocities I prevent myself from inheriting their sins. Those who whitewash the past inherit the guilt of the past. For example, the American South will never be forgiven for slavery until it admits its guilt and stops all attempts to economically, socially, and politically oppress the descendants of slaves through the war on drugs, voter suppression, zoning, etc.

BayArea says

Dan8267 says

No, calling it liberal would be mislabeling it. Calling it leftist is very accurate.

Dan, can you please elaborate and explain the difference between the two? They are usually used synonymously, but if they shouldn't, it would be helpful to understand the difference.

Done. So as to not derail this thread, I've opened another.

Libealism Defined

Fucking White Male says

I don't see fake movement of conservative marching in the streets. If there was someone finding Cliven bundy, so be it, but that hasn't received 1/100th of the coverage the fake BLM movement did. I think it's a bit of a stretch to expect the backers of the current four day old protests to be uncovered by a msm with no interest in doing so, but I think it's very reasonable to assume based on prior events:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/08/16/hacked-soros-memo-baltimore-riots-provide-unique-opportunity-reform-police/amp/?client=safari

So did you only read the headline? Because you either didn't read the article. or you didn't understand it.

No fake conservative movements? Really? The entire tea party is a fake conservative movement. The entire climate denial movement is a fake conservative movement. The bulk of anti obama care was a fake conservative movement. The hundreds and hundreds of tax exempt groups with names like americans for, citizens for, people for that constantly come and go are all fake conservative movements. Just because you choose not to know doesn't mean it's not out there.

Dan8267 says

I sincerely doubt that given Patrick's statements regarding the British empire and England's treatment of the Irish.

You are correct. He has corrected me and agrees that colonization is evil. I am just saying Trump as a manifestation of colonization could end up being worse than Clinton due to the racism that could affect his foreign policy. But we will see.

bob2356 says

Fucking White Male says

I don't see fake movement of conservative marching in the streets. If there was someone finding Cliven bundy, so be it, but that hasn't received 1/100th of the coverage the fake BLM movement did. I think it's a bit of a stretch to expect the backers of the current four day old protests to be uncovered by a msm with no interest in doing so, but I think it's very reasonable to assume based on prior events:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/08/16/hacked-soros-memo-baltimore-riots-provide-unique-opportunity-reform-police/amp/?client=safari

So did you only read the headline? Because you either didn't read the article. or you didn't u...

Did you read the title of this thread?

So what? It's been working for the clintons for ages.
Trump just took their strategy of flipflopping and successfully amplified it to the nth degree.
Stings like a bitch, don't it?

BayArea says

marcus says you made your bed says

Nobody actually knows where Trump is on the political spectrum, becasue he was just lying like crazy to get in power.

Yes, listening to him pander to evangelicals as an atheist, flip flop 3 times on the same day on abortion, spending the majority of his life as a NY lib, etc supports that.

FIFY...
rando says

Once an entire group is stigmatized with an inherent guilt based on the color of their skin, it becomes easy to harm them They become baby libbies.

FIFY...

Gary Anderson says

I have gone into stores and have had to seek out the glances of people of color and smile and assure them with that smile that I am not Trump nor do I care for Trump do not wish to be robbed by them.

Fucking White Male says

Did you read the title of this thread?

Did you? Did you actually read the article? What does a couple high school kids fighting that have to do with soros or baltimore riots?

Trump supporters are no better than clinton supporters. There are equally crazy loonies on both sides. Trump asked his supporters to stop their violence yesterday. I guess you and patrick missed that. Didn't make the right wing echo chamber "news" did it? Led around by the nose much? Maybe if you ask nicely you can borrow your soul, brain and balls back on weekends. I've heard that sometimes trolls and right wingnuts are allowed to do that.