patrick.net

Ahhh yes, Bloomberg, who always produces completely non-biased pro Trump articles...

Oh, wait....

What do we know about the author of that article?

...."Noah Smith is a Bloomberg Opinion columnist. He was an assistant professor of finance at Stony Brook University, and he blogs at Noahpinion. "

Why do Liberals always post "Opinion" pieces and try to sell them as "Facts"?

Fake News from Bloomberg again. Everyone I know had wages go up.

Left is so desperate they are making their own charts and rewriting history now. Target audience with IQ of a rock I suppose.

LeonDurham says

Trump tax plan is driving wages down.

Damn Trump. Lowering the minimum wages by more than 9%.
It's the crap only socialists would believe. Just ask our Patnet musician.

MrMagic says

Why do Liberals always post "Opinion" pieces and try to sell them as "Facts"?

No, the graph is a fact.

FortWayne says

Fake News from Bloomberg again. Everyone I know had wages go up.

Anecdotes do not overrule data.

Strategist says

Damn Trump. Lowering the minimum wages by more than 9%.
It's the crap only socialists would believe. Just ask our Patnet musician.

This has nothing to do with minimum wage. It's change in real wages.

Seems like the tax plan is working as designed:

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!

MrMagic says

Seems like the tax plan is working as designed:

Sadly, you are correct. It is performing exactly as designed.

Income for the top 1% is going up dramatically, while real wages for the 99% are going down. The two graphs illustrate that perfectly.

The influx of millions of foreign workers has pushed wages down for many years.

clambo says

The influx of millions of foreign workers has pushed wages down for many years.

Do you have data to support that statement?

LeonDurham says

clambo says

The influx of millions of foreign workers has pushed wages down for many years.

Do you have data to support that statement?

Why isn't that listed in the "Opinion" piece?

MrMagic says

Why isn't that listed in the "Opinion" piece?

I'm guessing because the data doesn't support such a conclusion. That's why I asked.

LeonDurham says

I'm guessing

We know you’re just guessing, and we know that your bias will cause you to guess that only negative things will result from a Trump Presidency.
It’s why your guesses are nearly always wrong.

Quigley says

We know you’re just guessing, and we know that your bias will cause you to guess that only negative things will result from a Trump Presidency.
It’s why your guesses are nearly always wrong.

Rather than make the post about me, the best way to address this concern is point out where my bias has influenced the opinion. Use the data and then explain how it SHOULD be interpreted.

Simply saying someone has a bias without showing how that bias manifested itself in this case is a big copout. No better than trolling.

MrMagic says

Seems like the tax plan is working as designed:

End thread.

Goran_K says

End thread.

LeonDurham says

Sadly, you are correct. It is performing exactly as designed.

Income for the top 1% is going up dramatically, while real wages for the 99% are going down. The two graphs illustrate that perfectly.

Obviously you are OK with falling wages for working folks as long as the 1% gets richer. That's sad.

LeonDurham says

Obviously you are OK with falling wages for working folks as long as the 1% gets richer. That's sad.

Prove that's happening.

Goran_K says

Prove that's happening.

I just did. The graph in the OP shows real wages are falling. The graph from Magic shows the 1% is getting richer.

End thread.

LeonDurham says

I just did. The graph in the OP shows real wages are falling. The graph from Magic shows the 1% is getting richer.

End thread.

No you didn't prove anything. Your graph doesn't show who is losing wages at all.

Show proof or you're trolling (trolling posts can be deleted per @Patrick new rules).

So please show dropping wages segmented by income levels, etc.

LeonDurham says

I just did.

From an opinion piece from Bloomberg? Really?

LeonDurham says

Use the data and then explain how it SHOULD be interpreted.

How's this for DATA:

Personal income increased $60.0 billion (0.4 percent) in May according to estimates released today by
the Bureau of Economic Analysis. Disposable personal income (DPI) increased $63.2 billion (0.4 percent)
and personal consumption expenditures (PCE) increased $27.8 billion (0.2 percent).

The increase in personal income in May primarily reflected increases in wages and salaries, personal dividend
income, and nonfarm proprietors’ income.

https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/pi/pinewsrelease.htm

BTW, THIS is how you use data, not from hit, opinion pieces published at Bloomberg.

Permanently End Thread.

Goran_K says

No you didn't prove anything. Your graph doesn't show who is losing wages at all.

Show proof or you're trolling (trolling posts can be deleted per @Patrick new rules).

So please show dropping wages segmented by income levels, etc.

Now someone posting graphs and explaining what they mean is trolling?? ROFLOL

I said real wages of the 99% are dropping. Since the 1% don't earn wages, they get compensated in other ways, this is completely and totally accurate. And should be obvious.

MrMagic says

Seems like the tax plan is working as designed:

Not an overall fan of Obama, but it's quite a bit disingenuous to screen shot the chart where it was. You can screen shot this anyway you want to make yourself right. Doesn't mean you are.

If you're happy with $400/yr more, kudos to you. I wipe my ass with $400.

The only time I've heard that wages were plummeting was under Obama for two years. Liberals considered it a good thing.
There's no data, reports or news stories to support this hyperbole.

MrMagic says

How's this for DATA:

Personal income increased $60.0 billion (0.4 percent) in May according to estimates released today by
the Bureau of Economic Analysis. Disposable personal income (DPI) increased $63.2 billion (0.4 percent)
and personal consumption expenditures (PCE) increased $27.8 billion (0.2 percent).

The increase in personal income in May primarily reflected increases in wages and salaries, personal dividend
income, and nonfarm proprietors’ income.

https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/pi/pinewsrelease.htm

BTW, THIS is how you use data, not from hit, opinion pieces published at Bloomberg.

Permanently End Thread.

Again--this is exactly what I'm saying. Income of the top 1% is up, while real WAGES for the rest of the population are down. Consistent with what everyone expected to happen.

Tenpoundbass says

The only time I've heard that wages were plummeting was under Obama for two years. Liberals considered it a good thing.
There's no data, reports or news stories to support this hyperbole.

Listen more often. I posted the data.

WookieMan says

Not an overall fan of Obama, but it's quite a bit disingenuous to screen shot the chart where it was. You can screen shot this anyway you want to make yourself right. Doesn't mean you are.

Please follow along, the thread was about TRUMP driving wages down, and you post a chart from 2013, 2014, 2015...

Geez...

When was the tax bill passed again?

LeonDurham says

I posted the data.

MrMagic says

What do we know about the author of that article?

...."Noah Smith is a Bloomberg Opinion columnist. He was an assistant professor of finance at Stony Brook University, and he blogs at Noahpinion. "

Why do Liberals always post "Opinion" pieces and try to sell them as "Facts"?

This Liberal Logic stuff is really confusing..

LeonDurham says

Again--this is exactly what I'm saying. Income of the top 1% is up, while real WAGES for the rest of the population are down.

Any idea what this means below:

LeonDurham says

The increase in personal income in May primarily reflected increases in wages and salaries,

$400/yr over a year really isn't driving them up either. I like the July '13 to July '16 trend line much better to be honest. My graph shows we're slowing down. No, Trump isn't driving wages down, but the upward trend has slowed, this is undeniable.

If $400 is a big deal, then cool. Good job Trump.

LeonDurham says

Personal income increased $60.0 billion (0.4 percent) in May according to estimates released today by
the Bureau of Economic Analysis. Disposable personal income (DPI) increased $63.2 billion (0.4 percent)
and personal consumption expenditures (PCE) increased $27.8 billion (0.2 percent).

The increase in personal income in May primarily reflected increases in wages and salaries. personal dividend
income, and nonfarm proprietors’ income.

Yup. End thread.

Apparently, Chucky reads the same Opinion pieces at Bloomberg like the OP.

From Lefty, Liberal Politifact:

Does Trump's tax plan do nothing for low income earners?
https://www.politifact.com/new-york/statements/2017/oct/08/charles-schumer/does-trumps-tax-plan-do-nothing-low-income-earners/

We rate Schumer's statement False.

Another DATA point (we know Liberals hate facts and data)

Income Tax Revenues Are Up 9% This Year .

The latest monthly budget report from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office finds that revenues from federal income taxes were $76 billion higher in the first half of this year, compared with the first half of 2017. That's a 9% jump, even though the lower income tax withholding schedules went into effect in February.

The CBO says the gain "largely reflects increases in wages and salaries."

The Treasury Department, which issues a separate monthly report, says it expects federal revenues will continue to exceed last year's for the rest of the 2018 fiscal year.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/income-tax-revenues-trump-tax-cuts-economic-growth/

Goran_K says

The increase in personal income in May primarily reflected increases in wages and salaries. personal dividend income, and nonfarm proprietors’ income.

MrMagic says

The CBO says the gain "largely reflects increases in wages and salaries."

Funny you left off the last part of that sentence. Why is that?

Could it be because you're trolling?

LeonDurham says

MrMagic says

The CBO says the gain "largely reflects increases in wages and salaries."

Funny you left off the last part of that sentence. Why is that?

Left off what part of the sentence? That was the whole thing..



See something missing there from the sentence? Didn't think so.....

LeonDurham says

Goran_K says

The increase in personal income in May primarily reflected increases in wages and salaries. personal dividend income, and nonfarm proprietors’ income.

Any idea what the definition of "Primarily" could be?

So, two different DATA sources (not Opinion pieces), claim "largely reflects" and "primarily reflects" INCREASES in wages and salaries, yet you're going to accuse me of:

LeonDurham says

trolling?

There isn't a single poster here that can top you in that category!

MrMagic says

That's a 9% jump, even though the lower income tax withholding schedules went into effect in February.

What withholding schedules? Unless you update your W-4, I'm not sure what would change for your typical employee. 98% of people that have the same job, withheld the same amount for federal taxes in 2018 as they did in 2017 as a percentage. A 9% increase is a good sign for the economy, but there's not a person here that can judge this whole thing until about this time next year.

I'm hopeful, but claiming victory before the game is over is a bit simplistic. And handing out participation trophies to Trump before there are tangible, LONG term results is also simplistic. Give it time. Anyone here shitting on or praising the tax plan should probably just stick to their day job and comment on stuff they understand.

WookieMan says

What withholding schedules? Unless you update your W-4, I'm not sure what would change for your typical employee.

Updated Withholding Calculator, Form W-4 Released; Calculator Helps Taxpayers Review Withholding Following New Tax Law
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/updated-withholding-calculator-form-w-4-released-calculator-helps-taxpayers-review-withholding-following-new-tax-law

My suggestion, just stop posting while you're ahead.

The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and the Treasury Department on Wednesday unveiled a tax calculator created after passage of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.

“The tool will help taxpayers determine whether they should update their W-4s,” Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said during a press conference, referring to the form that employees use to determine the amount withheld. “It will also be a tool taxpayers can use to figure out, to update their information as they experience life changes.”
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/irs-unveils-tax-calculator-does-your-w-4-need-to-be-updated

MrMagic says

Left off what part of the sentence? That was the whole thing..

No, it's because the lying source that you copy and paste cut it off. (I'll note you don't link to it like everyone else does)

The entire sentence is the one I posted.

MrMagic says

So, two different DATA sources (not Opinion pieces), claim "largely reflects" and "primarily reflects" INCREASES in wages and salaries, yet you're going to accuse me of:

No, they claim:

LeonDurham says

The increase in personal income in May primarily reflected increases in wages and salaries. personal dividend income, and nonfarm proprietors’ income.

┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐

LeonDurham says

MrMagic says

Left off what part of the sentence? That was the whole thing..

No, it's because the lying source that you copy and paste cut it off. (I'll note you don't link to it like everyone else does)

The entire sentence is the one I posted.

WTF are you talking about, I did a screen grab of the source? Do you need your glasses cleaned?