patrick.net

rdm says

If the Feds had recommended the shelter in place when or before CA. it could have significantly lowered the death rate

I'm pretty sure that if Feds had recommended SIP when or before CA none of the blue states would implement it. Including CA.

rdm says

If the Feds had recommended the shelter in place when or before CA

Is that something you want though? The federal government to tell you to stay home? Telling you to shut your business down and in the process not be able to feed your family or help out your employees? It's a god damn airborne virus. It's not a burglar that we can shoot or put up a fence to keep out. It's here. It has spread. It's not leaving. The cat is out of the bag, get over it. Open back up and move resources where they need to be as hot spots creep up. Not complicated.

rdm says

If the Feds had recommended the shelter in place when or before CA. it could have significantly lowered the death rate. Just a few of his greatest misses

Did you miss the links and quotes I provided by Cuomo?

He was threatening to sue Trump on March 28th for floating the idea of locking down New York.

WookieMan says

Is that something you want though? The federal government to tell you to stay home?

Even if it did: look at how well the will of federal govenment to enforce immigration laws is followed by the donkey-ran state governments.

Tim Aurora says

I saw signs that it had a potential of becoming a pandemic and took necessary action

The downside of you being wrong on taking that "necessary action" against WHO recommendation when you took it is the price of couple of masks ($6, probably). The guy who took necessary action mere 3 days after your insightfull move had much more things to consider. Like trillions more.

WookieMan says

Is that something you want though? The federal government to tell you to stay home

There were many states that used the excuse of the federal government not recommending the stay at home order to not implement it and or delay implementation. They followed the Trump administrations lead such as it was.

Personally I don't like any government telling me to do stay at home but we live in a society in which certain governments have been given authority to enforce such dictates for what is perceived as the greater good

Timmy and rdm: bbbbbut ORANGEMANBAD!
Okay guys... we are backing away slowly.

socal2 says

He was threatening to sue Trump on March 28th for floating the idea of locking down New York.

This is a red herring. The statement was "what could Trump have done that would have made a meaningful difference" I gave three examples. What Trump threatened to do and never did is not relevant to the question at hand. Could he have done it legally? practically it would have taken days tor weeks to sort out so it was simply bullshit posturing. CA went into the shut down I believe on March 20, The Bay area even sooner. Did NY wait too long, for sure that's on Cuomo and Trump.

rdm says

This is a red herring. The statement was "what could Trump have done that would have made a meaningful difference" I gave three examples. What Trump threatened to do and never did is not relevant to the question at hand. CA went into the shut down I believe on March 20, The Bay area even sooner. Did NY wait too long, for sure that's on Cuomo and Trump.

You gave 3 chickenshit and impossible metrics.

- Trump should have personally stepped over the CDC and FDA to tell them they are fucking up with the testing back in February? I know Trump is a stable genius, but how could Trump know the testing was fucked up when all of the experts at the CDC and FDA were saying they have testing covered?
- Trump should have personally inventoried every hospitals' PPE supply and then forced international companies to ramp up back in February?
- Trump should have locked down New York against the will of Cuomo and DeBlasio?

Lots of things seem easy or sensible with the benefit of hindsight. Having a President overstep our Federal constraints and impose dictatorial powers over duly elected State government is a big fucking deal......especially back in Feb/March when we have few cases or deaths.

But leave it to dishonest Progressives to try and use an international tragedy to gain political power.

Tim Aurora says

All he did was ask for 2.5 billion a month later

Um, no. It started with the travel ban on Jan 31st.

Tim Aurora says

It is costing Trillions now.

Right. Because we're dealing with a pandemic. Per WHO this was not at the level of public emergency up until Jan 30th. You bought your mask on Jan 27th. Pat yourself on the back for defying the WHO and acting early. The price of your decision was literally $6.

rdm says

There were many states that used the excuse of the federal government not recommending the stay at home order to not implement it and or delay implementation. They followed the Trump administrations lead such as it was.

Name one State - and let us know how many PROVABLE additional deaths that resulted.

Were big Democrat run States like New York, Michigan and New Jersey simply waiting on Orange Man Bad to do the right thing for their State?

Maybe New York would be doing better if they listed to Trump in March and didn't threaten to sue him?

Tim Aurora says

If yo are going to quote me quote the whole relevant line

I quoted and commented on that line in post #45.

Tim Aurora says

If yo are going to quote me quote the whole relevant line



TEOTWAWKI says

Right. Because we're dealing with pandemic. Per WHO this was not at the level of public emergency up until Jan 30th. You bought your mask on Jan 27th. Pat yourself on the back. The price of your decision was literally $6.

Tim Aurora says

It is costing Trillions now. All he did was ask for 2.5 billion a month later to which the Congress said he needs more and gave him 8+billions.

I quoted and commented on that line in post #45.

And stop writing on top - it's annoying.

Tim Aurora says

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Oa3nWjrRL2o

Remember in November:

Fartwell shamed people for wearing masks in March.
Pelosi and DeBlasio encouraged people to attend festivities in Chinatown and gather in large groups, both in February and March.
Biden was more upset over "Xenophobia" than the Virus.
Dems were united against travel bans and border controls to slow the spread, citing WHO, that repeated the claim that China had no new cases of Coronavirus since early January (laughably rubbish) and that it could not be transferred via human contact.

The Dems were handing out impeachment pens while Trump was organizing the first task force.

Tim Aurora says

- Trump should have personally stepped over the CDC and FDA to tell them they are fucking up with the testing back in February? I know Trump is a stable genius, but how could Trump know the testing was fucked up when all of the experts at the CDC and FDA were saying they have testing covered?
- Trump should have personally inventoried every hospitals' PPE supply and then forced international companies to ramp up back in February?
- Trump should have locked down New York against the will of Cuomo and DeBlasio?

Note I said his Administration.Trump personally couldn't tie his own shoes. But the great and mighty executive who hires only the very best people and then fires them because they are not sufficiently sycophantic and replaces them with 3rd rate toadies . Yep, he owns their actions and inactions in this case even if he aims to be the teflon Don, he isn't except among his base and the assorted, cloyingly obnoxoius Republican pol buttlickers. Have you ever seen a President take so little (read none) responsibility and blame every other person, organization, animal, vegetable or mineral he can scapegoat for his administration's ineptitude?

Tim Aurora says

Yeah and that was woefully inadequate and inconsequential by that point.. The NY virus came from Italy and he only banned China.

Still more than WHO recommends even now. Looks like we're in agreement wrt WHO being a bunch of useless fucks not worthy of our money.

And since we're on topic what was WHO saying on situation in Italy on Jan 27th? Or Jan 30th, if you prefer.

UPDATE: don't bother, I've found what they were saying about Italy on Jan 31st:

"Today, the first two confirmed cases of 2019-nCoV acute respiratory diseasewere reported in Italy; both had travel history to Wuhan City. "

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200131-sitrep-11-ncov.pdf?sfvrsn=de7c0f7_4

But fucking Trump failed to ban travel from Italy when he banned travel from China!!!


PS. And, btw, on Jan 27th when you were buying yuor masks the WHO was still recommending against their use by the general public, IIRC.

thomasdong1776 says

Is there nothing that bitch won't lie about?

Nope. It's wierd. THe more he lies, the more his base clings to him. Even Trump has got to be surprised, but he learned long ago it was good for him.

With Bush we learned that a lot of voters are comfortable with a President that doesn't seem any smarter than they are. With Trump we learned they also apparently like it when their president seems to have less integrity than they do. I don't get it, but that's how it is.

TEOTWAWKI says

But fucking Trump failed to ban travel from Italy when he banned travel from China!!!

And the Democrat mooks complained about this too!

Are these fuckers this totally blind to what the Democrats were saying just a few weeks ago? Or are they just this dishonest?

*Trump coronavirus Europe travel ban comes under criticism*
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487242-trump-coronavirus-travel-ban-comes-under-criticism

*EU condemns Trump travel ban on 26 European countries*
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51857462

rdm says

Trump personally couldn't tie his own shoes.

Can you see how statements like this make one appear idiotic?

Onvacation says

Trump personally couldn't tie his own shoes.

Can you see how statements like this make one appear idiotic?

Apparently the Trumpies are very sensitive and will allow no literary licence? I admit he can likely tie his own shoes, though with difficulty due to his obesity.

As an apology here is a joke:

what borders on stupidity?

Canada and Mexico

Tim Aurora says

I did not say that. "SoCal" did and agree with "rdm"

sorry I do this once in a while when quoting

marcus says

With Bush we learned that a lot of voters are comfortable with a President that doesn't seem any smarter than they are.

Huh? He is smarter than everyone on this forum. He became POTUS and has made millions of dollars from that. Not sure I believe the link, but I'd guess it's accurate: https://www.thoughtco.com/former-presidents-speaking-fees-3368127

Trump, Obama, Bush, etc. are exponentially, maybe hockey stick, more intelligent than you or I.

Trump, Obama, Bush, etc. are exponentially, maybe hockey stick, more intelligent than you or I.

+1000. Not just Presidents, but Governors as well, including Sara Palin. Maybe even AOC, who did after all, defeat a 10 term incumbent and make herself into a household name.

Can this be set to a marching band at half time? Oh, I forgot, no more half times.

Thank you for being a one stop shopping center for all the sources of information that are never to be trusted again. Saves a lot of effort.

Note that Sweden is not on the graph....

We're all dead. Not sure how I'm even typing. Weird.

What do the numbers look like with the assisted living and nursing home fatalities removed?

willywonka says

What do the numbers look like with the assisted living and nursing home fatalities removed?

Like nothing, but no one wants to admit that. Death is bad, but if you wanna take the positive out of this, the average monthly SS check is ~$1,500 and can go up to $3k. 100k dead would be $150M a month save in SS minimum. That's not including medical which is much higher than the SS cost. Every nursing home death is likely saving $3-4k/mo per person dead. And remember, these are people that weren't producing anything.

I know my position is harsh on this and those with sensitive feels will dislike it. But we need to open up, and if we burn off $3-4k/mo in obligations per death, you can't really argue that's a bad thing.

What do the numbers look like with the assisted living and nursing home fatalities removed from the fatality data?

WookieMan says

willywonka says

What do the numbers look like with the assisted living and nursing home fatalities removed?

Like nothing, but no one wants to admit that. Death is bad, but if you wanna take the positive out of this, the average monthly SS check is ~$1,500 and can go up to $3k. 100k dead would be $150M a month save in SS minimum. That's not including medical which is much higher than the SS cost. Every nursing home death is likely saving $3-4k/mo per person dead. And remember, these are people that weren't producing anything.

I know my position is harsh on this and those with sensitive feels will dislike it. But we need to open up, and if we burn off $3-4k/mo in obligations per death, you can't really argue that's a bad thing.

It's a new virus, and folks with shit immune systems in bug incubators are going to get picked off. It might be worse than the flu, in that case, as they lack pre-existing immunity and can't develop an adequate immune response before they die, if at all. There will be occasional fatalities in the healthy population, just as with the flu, although COVID-19 is not affecting young kids as much as the flu.

You can't have MD's directing economic policy, it's insane.

Dude - the protest was a few days ago.

How could it cause a "spike" in deaths a few days later?

More garbage media.

ThreeBays says

Sweden's curve remains exponentially up without sign of peaking.

You are merely describing a rate, and not the outcome.

It is possible that the sick elderly die off quickly, as suggested by Professor Johan Giesecke, and that we wind up with the same number of deaths overall, just takes longer to get there in the lockdown countries. And herd immunity develops more slowly under a lockdown scenario as well.

Seems like what was needed was to leave the economy open, but protect the elderly.

Looks like it pays to be 100...
HeadSet says

Seems like what was needed was to leave the economy open, but protect the elderly.

ThreeBays says

everyone wants the economy to re-open the number is likely to be higher unless governments implement very strict isolation of vulnerable people - for example in the UK those over 70 or with certain high risk conditions have to lock in and get food & medicine delivered.

Why did we not do that from the beginning? Instead we have locked down perfectly healthy people with very little risk of death from this virus. The purpose was to flatten the curve; we smashed it.

Time to get back to work.

Worse case a bit more deaths than bad flu season for the sickly and old. What a clusterfuck the damage that has been done but shutting shit down instead of just taking precautions. Thanks again for fucking the younger generations, and anyone that is productive and needs to work for a living.