patrick.net

I believe in these principles but i am confused about my identity in US. I am an immigrant and i came to know that there are only two parties in this country and i have to either accept one or the other. seems like GOD designed the parties and not humans.
OK here is what i believe in

1) fairness - All kids born on this planet should have equal rights and oppurtunities. Earth and its resources are part of nature and you have every right to grab it if its not fairly distributed. this means people cannot inherit anything from parents. schools are well funded to give education on par with best private schools. We don't allow monopolies in industry and same goes with not allowing monopolies ( family) in society.
2) Free - Everybody should be free to think and do what ever they want as long as they don't harm other emotionally, socially and in any form.
3) I am against gay people claiming the right to use the name "marriage". they shoudl keep low profile and get all the rights but not distort the meaning of normal by taking over the media.
4) i am against "abortion" ( exception : when its a risk to mother)
5) i am strong believer in "well regulated" free market. Regulation should be only to make it free and fair ( to avoid cheating like what happened recently during financial collapse)
6) tax ratio between rich and poor should be adjusted in such a way that the wealth distribution in the country remains in line with historic trends ( unilke what happened in last 10 years)
7) i believe in strong family principles, moral values and if possible a healthy dose of any religion.
8) i believe in global warming and i also believe that we need to use earths resources wisely.

Ok so am i democrat or republican ?

^ your 2 and 3 seem to be in conflict a bit, unless you want to say gay people getting married are harming other people emotionally, which is really a bit weird : )

I think gay people getting married should be just as normal as interracial people getting married, which was similarly illegalized and repressed 50 years ago.

As for 6, I think talking about tax ratios is really the wrong approach. As our host would say, we should tax land values a LOT more (this goes well with your 1, fairness). After we tax the rents out of land values, we may find we don't have to really tax incomes or sales more than nominally if at all. This is the Single Tax proposal from 100 years ago that makes a lot of sense to me since land is the primary artifact for disproportionate wealth distribution and also the main avenue for getting something for nothing in this country.

The reason there are only two parties in this country is because in any representative system there are two coalitions form in opposition of each other.

Your pro-life and religious stances makes you socially conservative and your fairness stance puts you way out sync with even liberal Republicans these days. I'd say you're a conservative Democrat, like say Senator Reid.

Leigh says

Bob2356, ‘little over an hour’, I live in the west side right now and go midweek at odd hours so never hit any traffic and I only go 5 over the limit;O).
What were you doing in Zig Zag?!

Yea, sounds good. It's a really nice drive, although I've hit ice frequently by the cutoff to jewell. I Always made it policy to stop and eat at camp 18 as much as possible.

Being in Zig Zag involves getting really wet mostly, otherwise skiing hood as much as possible. I had a forest service cabin that I stayed in a lot, especially when I lived out of state or country. I was there last year from Nov to Feb with all the big snow. Funny how the roads above Sandy were just fine, below Sandy were impassable. I'm overseas long term for now so I just very reluctantly sold it. Making 25-30 hour trips each way, 18 hours of it flying the rest sitting in airports with 2 small kids is just not practical in any way shape or form.

doing anything with two small kids, other than watching Pheneus and Ferb, is not practical in my world

Libertarians are anarchists without the bombs (most of the time) and shouldn't be part of any serious conversation concerning government. They don't want one. Libertarians should have been born at least 150 years ago. They'd be happier poking their flintlock out a loop-hole.

Bap33 says

doing anything with two small kids, other than watching Pheneus and Ferb, is not practical in my world

That's really sad. What about playgrounds, pools, beaches, the woods, doing puzzles, reading books, cooking, and all of the other activities that are supposed to be part and parcel of the parenting thing?

bob ... buddy ... humor somethimes is not based on reality. Lighten up a tad.

Bap33 says

bob … buddy … humor somethimes is not based on reality. Lighten up a tad.

Sorry, sometimes things don't always appear as humor. I have a great time with my kids and really am surprised by people who think their children are a drag on their life. I thought that was what you were saying.

I'm an ultra conervative in my parenting too. The fact my wife has been at home since before the first kid got here 13 years ago shows our approach. Anyone that starts breeding and then drops Skyler and Citrus off at childcare to head off to work should be ashamed.

Oh, ya, and I spank my kids for doing bad things. Sneaking, telling lies and disrespectful acts result in swift action. It has resulted in my kids being frustrated by the behavior that is accepted at school from other kids, but they are doing ok so far. One thing is obvious, welfare kids and working-mom kids all attend the same pre-schools and childcare. More than one teacher has said, "it is obvious to tell when a kid has a stay-home mom". That makes up for living in a shack and being poor. I just hate the fact that I have to toss them into the sea of dispare that is being created by liberalism, where hard work and moral behavior are laughed at.

Bap33 says

where hard work and moral behavior are laughed at.

LOL. You should be glad for this special form of liberalism that inhabits your mind. In your world, liberalism is creating a bunch of dopes ripe for the plucking.

and only the intelectual highground inhabited by liberals would allow a person such a great view of all of mankind so as to allow one to see what is in my mind, and in my world. Am I supposed to bow or check my shoe-laces?

Bap--

Seriously, does it make you feel better to blame everything on "liberals"? You don't really think that way, do you?

tatupu70 says

Bap–
Seriously, does it make you feel better to blame everything on “liberals”? You don’t really think that way, do you?

Liberals are currently destroying this country. I am sick and tired of people sugar coating this shit. WE WILL STAND UP TO THESE PEOPLE. WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK.

people like this: http://www.sphere.com/nation/article/border-crossings-theres-an-app-for-that/19286630

deserve to be shot.

Why is it that conservatives always threaten violence when people do things or say things they don't like?

In my view that's a sign of a very weak mind.

Bap33 says

I’m an ultra conervative in my parenting too. The fact my wife has been at home since before the first kid got here 13 years ago shows our approach. Anyone that starts breeding and then drops Skyler and Citrus off at childcare to head off to work should be ashamed.
Oh, ya, and I spank my kids for doing bad things. Sneaking, telling lies and disrespectful acts result in swift action. It has resulted in my kids being frustrated by the behavior that is accepted at school from other kids, but they are doing ok so far. One thing is obvious, welfare kids and working-mom kids all attend the same pre-schools and childcare. More than one teacher has said, “it is obvious to tell when a kid has a stay-home mom”. That makes up for living in a shack and being poor. I just hate the fact that I have to toss them into the sea of dispare that is being created by liberalism, where hard work and moral behavior are laughed at.

Wow, really?

My Mom was a "stay at home Mom." And she's always been very liberal, and so was Dad. And we even got spanked. Whenever the school punished us or called home, we got it at home. They always believed the school in these matters. And I went to private schools where we had corporal punishment and uniforms. In high school we had a strict dress code. Disrespect, lying, and sneaking were always dealt with swiftly at home and at school. We were forced to attend religious services and pray at home. We were taught to love our country and to serve it. They made sacrifices to give us all of this and we were never "well-to-do." I wore "hand me downs" and yet we always had enough food and decent shelter. And my parents were madly in love and never divorced.

Why is it that conservatives always believe that they are the only ones who espouse certain ideals?

girls are much more fun than boys in the early years, but at 11 or so they make-up for it really quick. girls dont whine and cry as much, and are smarter/quicker to understand stuff. or, my son is just a hard head. lol. enjoy the experience. the time flies by.

Bap, any answer to my question and my telling of how I was raised? Is that any different from what you are trying to achieve?

I do this to my kid... I do that to my kid... to raise them proper. Ok, good for you. But, when I hear complaints about my kids being frustrated by the behavior of other kids. I have to ask, what are you doing to solve the problem of the other kids behavior. If the answer is, nothing because they are not my kids, then stop the whining.

A couple years ago I was a a friend's place in his complex's recreation room (not a gym). There was a Christmas tree and we were there enjoying ourselves in part of the room. About 5 of the complex neighborhood kids came in being noisy. These were not my kids, but I still told them to quiet down a couple of times. They would quiet down for a while then become noisy again and they began rough housing. One of the little boys about 8ish hit one of the little girls about the same age and this caused one to the ornaments on the Christmas tree to break. I told them all to go home and, if they would not go home, I'd call the manager to take them home. One of the kids (the one that hit the little girl) threatened to tell his father on me. I told him that I would walk him home to talk to his father. He did not take me up on that offer. About 30 minutes later, his father walks in steaming mad at me. He began telling me that I do not tell his son what to do.

I raised my voice to him telling him that he was responsible for the damage his son caused and I'd be more than happy to call the manager to clean up his son's mess. I also told him that I didn't know how he was raising his son, but when I was growing up, my father would have tanned my hide for hitting a little girl. I asked him if his dad taught him the same thing. He admitted he did not realize that his son hit a girl. He walked out nearly dragging his son behind him. Don't know what happened to the kid after that.

Point of this little story, I don't whine about how other kids act. If I see something that should not be happening I have no fear of stepping in and opening (what some people say) is my big mouth.

Good job of horn blowing, but all your point did was prove mine.

When you(or me) send a kid to school having tought them right from wrong and they get to see idiot kids not be held to the acceptable standard for behavior, our kids pick-up on it and expess it as anything from "that's not fair, so-n-so gets to XYZ and nobody else does" to "I dont like so-n-so, they always XYZ and the teacher don't make them stop. Since I aint sitting in the class room or standing on the playground, I cant very well pick on the little kids as you so proudly did.

The only point of your story was that you enjoy empty bravado for "standing up" to roudy 8 year olds. I bow to you - you badass.

I'd call it active involvement in solving problems rather than sniveling about the problems. Hardly standing up to kids or anyone else. More like standing up for principles. And, was able to accoplish it without a threat of corporal punishment.

But, if it is pity you want, ok. Poor Bap he can't sit in the classroom or stand on the playground to solve the problem that he wants to whine about. Let us weep for him. Give him a hug. Get him a beer for his tears.

But, wait...before we pity him any farther, let's ask:
1) Did Bap ask his child's school if he could volunteer to watch the playground?
2) Did Bap ask his child's school if he could volunteer to be a teacher's assistant in the classroom?
3) Does Bap attempt to do anything else to solve his problem, i.e. become a leader of the PTA or even just attend?

Given the fact that I have worked with several school districts (it was 5 years ago before I switched jobs), I know that most schools have volunteer programs. Even if Bap's school does not, a little less whining and a little more gumption and perhaps he could start a volunteer group for the school.

But hey, whining and complaining are rights protected by the Constitution.

go get 'em you badass. I think that one even has some candy you can bully from 'em.

by the way, badass, you did threaten corpral punishment upon the kid (when you marched him to his not-as-good-as-you daddy, and you also imply physical harm to the daddy at the hands of your badass) ... go get em tuff guy.

simchaland says

Bap, any answer to my question and my telling of how I was raised? Is that any different from what you are trying to achieve?

your post started out saying your mom was liberal, and then you described an ultra-conservative upbringing. My best guess is you mistook a kind heart for liberalism ... or you just made up the whole thing. Either one?

All I am trying to achieve is to give my kids all of the tools I can to give them a good solid foundation for life. And, in my opinion, raising kids is a hard job. Also, in my opinion, subsidizing the expansion of the lowest common denominator of society has resulted in very poor results. Lazy people are crappy parents.

Ryan says

I raised my voice to him telling him that he was responsible for the damage his son caused and I’d be more than happy to call the manager to clean up his son’s mess.

lol ... "I raised my voice and threatened to call the manager" ... ooooh ... wow.

Pity party for Bap. Can anyone take care of his problems for him?

An antonym of gumption is lazy. What was that, Bap, about lazy people?

Bap, your kids will not do better as a result of your proper upbringing. They will be victimized and will generally find it difficult to operate in a system that rewards sneaky lying behavior.

Nomo, you're a disingenuos fable teller. While I can not prove that I have never taken a hand-out, you can not prove I have. And the reverse is true. As a matter of fact, I can not prove that I am anybody that has done anything, and you can't either -- but you will never stop attacking. In other words, a perfect liberal. kudos to you.

.... how my posts ignite you to attack me is really funny. So lib, and so predictable. Cheers.

I can almost imagine DocNomo all hunched over, typing really hard on each key to prove his point !! lmao. "What a maroooon" (in the voice of Bugs Bunny).

What was the topic again?

Merry Christmas folks.

Nomo,
you've been (im)properly spanked and put to bed without supper. NO BOX OF CHOCOLATES FOR YOU!

tee hee hee - I love it when I'm clever!

Bap33 says

While I can not prove that I have never taken a hand-out, you can not prove I have.

You forego the $1000 per child tax credit? Thought not, leech.

you miss the point my dear Troy. Proof. lmao. I think it is more than that too.

on that child credit thingy ... if a person put $X into the IRS's strong-hold over a years time, and through the tax filing system is returned $X it is a hand-out in my opinion. That earned income child credit thingy is just hidden welfare in many cases .. in my opinion.

What's the topic again?

@ellie,
are you suggesting my spellling and grammar may have issues? lol. Merry Christmas ellie.

Nomograph says

Most parents teach their children the value education, hard work, and personal responsibility.

DocNomo ... are these values your personal top three and are they listed in order?

E-man says

Don’t call people name like that. I sincerely expect you to be better than this.

George Bush hands him $1000 /yr just for sprogging, increasing the national debt by over a million dollars (through the magic of compounding) by the end of the century.

Bap didn't do anything worthwhile to merit that tax credit, yet he took the government handout anyway. What a leech :)

Nomograph says

Ryan says

1) Did Bap ask his child’s school if he could volunteer to watch the playground?
2) Did Bap ask his child’s school if he could volunteer to be a teacher’s assistant in the classroom?
3) Does Bap attempt to do anything else to solve his problem, i.e. become a leader of the PTA or even just attend?

That would cut into Bap’s AM talk radio time.
Don’t forget, Bap33 is on welfare. He didn’t follow his own advice and figure out how to provide for his family before he started “breeding”. Now you and I have to pay to raise his litter, and just look at the thanks we get. It’s a sure bet that Bap33’s mother and/or father were also on welfare. Most likely his children will end up on welfare unless he starts providing for himself, stops blaming other people for his problems, and teaches his children to do the same.

Not to mention he is taking out a FHA loan to recoup the 8K tax credit that conservatives so love.

Troy says

Bap33 says

While I can not prove that I have never taken a hand-out, you can not prove I have.

You forego the $1000 per child tax credit? Thought not, leech.

How about that 8K tax credit you chose to receive.

trying, but as of yet, no success.

Bap33 says

Nomo, you’re a disingenuos fable teller. While I can not prove that I have never taken a hand-out, you can not prove I have. And the reverse is true. As a matter of fact, I can not prove that I am anybody that has done anything, and you can’t either — but you will never stop attacking. In other words, a perfect liberal. kudos to you.

Bap33 says

@ellie,
are you suggesting my spellling and grammar may have issues? lol. Merry Christmas ellie.

Bap, I'm not suggesting that your spelling & grammar may have issues. I'm flat out saying it. You often use language that reverses the meaning of your message to make you sound - gasp! - liberal. lol, I enjoy it, and I'm sure that I'm not the only one to do so. An example:

Bap33 says

…. how my posts ignite you to attack me is really funny. So lib, and so predictable. Cheers.

Ignite: To set on fire; kindle. Chemistry, to heat intensely, roast.
Incite: To stir; encourage, or urge on; stimulate or prompt to action: to incite a crowd to riot.

Your comments after your misuse of the word "ignite," instead of fulfilling your mission of appearing condescending and propping your ego 'cause you're smarter than a doctor, actually gives one the impression that you lack education and/or intelligence.

Joke's on you. Merry Christmas.

ok ... jokes on me .... I meant ignite ... as in "light a fire under ones butt and makes them jump up in a flash". Thanks for your support. lol I know my writing sux. I know, my writing sux. I know my writing, sux.

Bap33 says

ok … jokes on me …. I meant ignite … as in “light a fire under ones butt and makes them jump up in a flash”.

Bap - I don't doubt that your posts invite a response, as evidenced by the responses to your posts. But you might be flattering yourself if you believe that you light a fire under Nomo's butt, or make him jump in a flash.

A response written in a laid-back manner doesn't lend itself to the urgency you're intimating. I don't know Nomo, but believe that he has the ability to decide when something is worth jumping up in a flash. He (and various others) exploit your lack of command of the language as they make fun of you. It's funny, and clever.

So, I thank you and several other posters on this forum for the untold hours of amusement you've given - and look forward to many more. Merry Christmas.

Elliemae

RE: the child credit. I like to think that my government pays me to have sex;O)

Bap33 says

simchaland says

Bap, any answer to my question and my telling of how I was raised? Is that any different from what you are trying to achieve?

your post started out saying your mom was liberal, and then you described an ultra-conservative upbringing. My best guess is you mistook a kind heart for liberalism … or you just made up the whole thing. Either one?
All I am trying to achieve is to give my kids all of the tools I can to give them a good solid foundation for life. And, in my opinion, raising kids is a hard job. Also, in my opinion, subsidizing the expansion of the lowest common denominator of society has resulted in very poor results. Lazy people are crappy parents.

Um nope, I really mean my Mom was and IS a LIBERAL. She's very liberal. And I made nothing up. That was my upbringing. Child rearing according to political ideology is stupid. Most parents of any political orientation will use discipline. My whole point is that you and other conservatives seem to think that only you hold certain ideals dear. And my point is that we have some ideals in common. You neglect to take a look at the true definition of the political word "liberal." Liberals are free thinkers. My parents were free thinkers who voted for whomever they thought would get the job done well. We worked on campaigns. Trust me, we didn't work on conservative campaigns. My upbringing wasn't exactly "conservative" in a political sense. Liberals have traditions and ideals we like to uphold too. And we share many of the same ideals as conservatives claim to hold.

So, why is it that you think that only conservatives have ideals?

Something tells me that you are fighting a "straw man" liberal that exists only in your imagination. We liberals love our children and want the best for them. And we even believe in discipline. However, we don't all hold the same ideals because we are free thinkers. We can be liberal and pick and chose from many traditions. We liberals aren't "boxed in" like it seems conservatives are.

So, again answer the question that I really asked, why is it that you think that only conservatives have ideals?