patrick.net

Homeboy,
I understand your frustration. I said at the beginning of this thread that My husband and I together make $ 75,000 a year and buy our insurance independently. (Blue Shield of Ca) We are now paying $772 a month with a $10,000 deductible. He is 61 and I am 55. We have watched are premiums rise dramatically, just like you. We feel very fortunate that we do not have any pre existing condition, and at least can get insurance, however, it is becoming unaffordable. I also understand that our premiums will rise in the independent market. If I go on the health Exchange for California and put in my information, the rate is around $1100.00 a month.

Homeboy says

errc says

CL that's just being dishonest. How are people that aren't paying AND not using, part of the problem?

No, YOU are being dishonest. Tell me that every person who doesn't have insurance because they are healthy "right now", will just let themselves die if they get sick. You know perfectly well that's not the case. We don't just let people die in this country. If they don't have insurance, their care will be paid for one way or the other. And guess who gets to pay for it...

Either you are being intentionally dishonest, or you don't have a good grasp of the english language

Your position is that people that use health care services, and don't have insurance, and no other means to pay, are driving up costs for those of you that use health insurance and healthcare services

Healthy people that don't have insurance and don't use healthcare services, can't possibly be driving up costs.

errc says

Either [homeboy is] being intentionally dishonest, or [doesn't] have a good grasp of the english language

You put that very politely, but I can resolve the ambiguity for you: homefool is being intentionally dishonest. He and I have already discussed the 2% cost shifting under EMTALA that he uses as a pretext for massively higher cost shifting under Obamacare. He knows the numbers, he merely objects to the fact that EMTALA doesn't cover his toxic placebos (SSRIs) but does cover people who are hit by a truck. Somehow, he blames those people for their actual injuries, and demands they must pay to subsidize the pills he can't afford to treat his Prozac deficiency.

The simple answer to EMTALA cost shifting is math. The reported $43 billion that Obamacare supporters quote is 2% of total medical spending. Even if you eliminated it entirely, even if you shot dead every emergency patient who couldn't pay, or hit them with a hammer to save the cost of bullets, the most you could possibly save is 2%. And, EMTALA is itself optional: it applies only to hospitals that choose to take Medicare, but they make so much $$$ off Medicare that almost all opt in. Now, with Obamacare, hospital corporations are building new facilities with no emergency departments, so they can capture the elective procedure revenue without incurring the EMTALA costs, which btw won't be eliminated by Obamacare because CBO says there will still be 30 million Americans uninsured plus 10 million illegal aliens ineligible for insurance.

And, if you think 2% cost shifting is bad, then logically you must think the astronomical cost shifting under mandatory insurance is much worse. The difference is, mandatory insurance increases revenue for key players (AHA, AMA - both PACs based in Chicago) and especially PhRMA (which agreed to spend nine figures to advertise on behalf of the legislation). Even AHIP gets a cut, though not as much as they wanted so they turned against it. If you believe cost shifting is a bad thing, then you should oppose mandatory insurance.

errc says

Healthy people that don't have insurance and don't use healthcare services, can't possibly be driving up costs.

Until they get sick.

finehoe says

errc says

Healthy people that don't have insurance and don't use healthcare services, can't possibly be driving up costs.

Until they get sick.

Care to explain?

Or just gonna keep regurgitating the corporate propogated memes?

GRACE123 says

We are now paying $772 a month with a $10,000 deductible. He is 61 and I am 55. We have watched are premiums rise dramatically, just like you. We feel very fortunate that we do not have any pre existing condition, and at least can get insurance, however, it is becoming unaffordable. I also understand that our premiums will rise in the independent market. If I go on the health Exchange for California and put in my information, the rate is around $1100.00 a month.

But that's the Silver plan. It only has a $2000 deductible. So for that $387 more per month, you are saving $8000 per year in out-of-pocket expenses. Covered California is by far the better deal of the two. And if you really enjoy having a high deductible that much, you can still get the Bronze plan, which will be cheaper and have a higher deductible.

I honestly don't understand what your complaint is.

errc says

Either you are being intentionally dishonest, or you don't have a good grasp of the english language

Ooh, false dilemna. O.K., I want to play too:

Either you are a huge asshole, or you are retarded.

errc says

Your position is that people that use health care services, and don't have insurance, and no other means to pay, are driving up costs for those of you that use health insurance and healthcare services

Please don't tell me what my "position" is. I will state my own position, thank you.

errc says

Healthy people that don't have insurance and don't use healthcare services, can't possibly be driving up costs.

People who are healthy at one particular moment may not ALWAYS be healthy. What is the problem you are having? Do you want me to say it s-l-o-w-e-r?

errc says

finehoe says

errc says

Healthy people that don't have insurance and don't use healthcare services, can't possibly be driving up costs.

Until they get sick.

Care to explain?

Why? You are the only one here who doesn't understand.

GRACE123 says

I also understand that our premiums will rise in the independent market. If I go on the health Exchange for California and put in my information, the rate is around $1100.00 a month.

Not sure if this would work for you, but it might be worth checking out: You can deduct your health insurance expenses on your taxes. Your health insurance would cost about $13,908 a year. If you make $75K, that deduction brings your adjusted gross income down to $61,092, in which case you would get a $676 subsidy per month, bringing your health insurance cost down to $484 per month. The costs are just estimates at this point, so it would depend how things play out. But maybe worth asking your tax guy about. Just a thought.

Thank you Homeboy, that would be manageable!

All of these comments are proof that Obamacare is a classic tail wagging the dog scenario. The tail is the insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and american hospital association. The dog is Mr Obama who never read the bill written by the aforementioned that he signed into law.

Homeboy says

You can deduct your health insurance expenses on your taxes

complete bullshit. You can not deduct premiums or deductables. If you plan to carry Lord Barry's water, you should do better at spreading bullshit.

Bap33 says

complete bullshit. You can not deduct premiums or deductables. If you plan to carry Lord Barry's water, you should do better at spreading bullshit.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

I only posted that because I thought it might help someone. I don't know if it will work, but I thought it might be worth looking into. Absolutely no reason for you to be an asshole about it, but you were anyway. Congratulations.

where in her post did you find "self employed". I missed it.
if she said in her post that she and he husband are self employed, and file jointly, then she can write off the insurance like you said. Please direct me to the post that she put up that says that. I cant find it.
If you cant show it, then you created her out of thin air.
If you can show it, then I am wrong and an asshole poopoo head.
Thanks.

Bap33 says

complete bullshit. You can not deduct premiums or deductables

That is what you wrote, and it is wrong.

Again, don't know if this would work for them. I have used that deduction myself, but I don't know if they can, which is why I said it MIGHT be worth asking their tax guy about. Just trying to help. If it doesn't work, no harm no foul.

You, on the other hand, are just being a prick. At this point, I honestly think you have some sort of emotional problem. Seriously.

lmao .. you pulled it from your ass. ha ha

and you prolly made up that poster so you could act out some fantasy. What a freak you are. wow.

NEXT

Homeboy says

Again, don't know if this would work for them. I have used that deduction
myself, but I don't know if they can, which is why I said it MIGHT be worth
asking their tax guy about. Just trying to help. If it doesn't work, no harm no
foul.

um, no, dipshit, you were defending nobamaycare with bullshit.

You should get counseling.

Homeboy says

Not as big a deal as millions of people not being able to get health insurance AT ALL, which was the case before Obamacare

So, safe to say you are talking about the health care of illegal aliens? Because that's what Obamacare includes. Shifting 716 Billion dollars from Medicare (ie, stealing this from older American retired citizens who worked/lived here there entire lives, and had this earned money taken away by obama w/ the flick of his pen), and using it to cover medical costs of illegal aliens.

Tell me Homeboy (because no liberal will answer this question): Why has Obama granted thousands of waivers for this awesome law call Obamacare (or ACA)?? Hmmm? If it's so great and fair and will save billions of dollars, why is it projected to cost so much. So much, that companies big and small are holding off on expanding, and hiring new/more employees?

Why do even waivers exist at all?

marcus says

AverageBear says

So where are these fiscal democrats?

Obama is fiscally conservative.

HAHAHAHAAA!!! That's a good one. Has he ever proposed cutting taxes? Ever? Begging/threatening/pleading to increase the budget deficit? Not working w/ the House to reign in spending? yeah, that's a fiscal conservative... PFFT.

they follow Sol's advice .... tell the biggest lie you can think of over and over and call anyone that opposes you "crazy". Seems to be working for them.

AverageBear says

that's a good one. Has he ever proposed cutting taxes? Ever?

You really need to cut back on the right wing propaganda.

Obama claims to have cut taxes 18 times for small businesses. Maybe that's an exaggeration, I don't know. But if you don't know he's clearly cut taxes many times, you have to be deep deep deep in your propaganda bubble.

QUICK SWITCH TO FOX NEWS BEFORE ANY OF THIS SINKS IN !!!

Yes, Obama did fight for the Bush tax cuts to expire 2 years later than originally promised.

Btw, the Bush tax cuts were basicvally a way of giving the several years of peak social security surplus money to the rich in the form of tax cuts. OF course now right wing dim bulbs want to claim that we can't afford those entitlements (when the truth is that we couldn't afford the Bush tax cuts or the off books wars that followed).

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/sep/07/barack-obama/barack-obama-said-hes-cut-taxes-middle-class-famil/

http://www.ctj.org/obamastaxcuts.php

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/05/a-bogus-tax-attack-against-obama/

he promised to close Gitmo.
he promised to send everyone home from war.
he promised to uphold the US Constiution.
he promised to be an open administration.
He did none of the above.

he promised to fundamentaly change America. He did.

liberalism is a cancer on America's soul.

Bap33 says

he promised to close Gitmo.

he promised to send everyone home from war.

he promised to uphold the US Constiution.

he promised to be an open administration.

He did none of the above.

he promised to fundamentaly change America. He did.

liberalism is a cancer on America's soul.

Fisrt off, just fyi, you are still on ignore, but I'm bored and procrastinating my work (day off but tons of work to do that wasn't finished yesterday).

I'm very disappointed in Obama as I usually am by politicians for some of the same reasons you mention as well as others. It's almost as if he's a puppet.

But blaming it on "liberalism" is worse than retarded. If you think that Obama is a liberal or even that todays democrats in general are liberal, you haven't been paying attention.

Several people have shown data and graphs that prove that spending is higher under republican administrations fr the past sevral decades. So democrats are provavbly more conservative fiscally.

It's also well know that Reagan would be considered a rino in todays toxic right wing environment. The very fact that you take comfort in such a hateful dishonest party that only exists for the agendas of corporate AMerica and the plutocrats says everything about who you are Bap.

Sieg Heil !

demoncrats forcibley remove the wealth from producers and hand it over to those they have deemed worthy. That is anti-American.
demoncrats/liberals/progressives have no moral anchor beyond "self". That is why they embrace deviant behavior. And they are sick sick sick sick-os.

I find your personal attacks so empty and weak ... I kinda pitty you a bit, little fella.

Propaganda pure and simple. You've bought the lie. Welfare and food stamps is a system that allows some of your corporate overlords to pay employees less than they can live on.

Republicans spend more than democrats, they just cry real loud about fiscal responsibility when democrats are in power. GW gave the social security surplus to the rich in the form of tax cuts.

Think about it. You're supposedly upset about people paying higher taxes on the part of their income that's over 250K.

Gullible idiot.

If I said people like you are gullible idiots would it be any less personal?

marcus says

Bap33 says

>

liberalism is a cancer on America's soul.

Oh, that's not personal. Thanks.

Fucking moron.

Better run back to Glenn Beck dot com, before you learn anything. Main stream media isn't dishonest or hyperbolic enough for you. I'm sure you think ABC and CNN are communist outlets.

marcus says

Bap33 says

>

liberalism is a cancer on America's soul.

Not so funny thing is that liberalism has been on the decline for decades and the country has swung so far to the right that we now have this extreme dysfunction with a split between democrats who are to the right of what can sanely be described as center, and a far right wacko wing that uses money and leverage to force moderate republicans out. They all sign an oath about taxes, because they don't care if they destroy AMerica with debt.

The only way to be fiscally responsible is to pay your bills. Even most retarded folks understand this. IF we paid for what we spent, we would have to make the tough decisions. That's what they're afraid of. Making the tough decisions. Some say we aren't even a functioning democracy any more.

If we don't take the big money out of politics, we're toast. It might already be to late. But please spare your retarded claims about it being the fault of liberalism. I hate it when people are too stupid to know when they are lying (especially to themselves).

corporations do not vote
welfare sucking hyper-breeding scum do, as do drugged up dopeheads, as do constant-victims (lazy people of color, lazy/ugly people, ect).
and worst of all is the able bodied scum that like keeping the dependants down by handing them wealth. The same people that understand how bad it is to feed a bear in the woods just dont grasp how bad it is to remove the need to be productive from men, or the need to choose mates wisely from women.

What America needs less of is forced wealth redistribution, less welfare, less EPA (and everyone of it's sub-groups), to end the entire puplic funded school system, and less liberalism/progressiveism/leftism/anti-freedom/anti-self-reliance/anti-God/anti-Jew/anti-Americanism. We need less Holder, Pelosi, Clinton, Obama, and Sharpton. Less rap, less criminal behavior, less pervertion, less sexual deviant behavior, less time watching TV, less time on the internet, less time spend doing nothing. And less anger. I thought you dope-head hippy types were all about peace and love.

Nice name calling. Been practicing?

marcus says

If we don't take the big money out of politics, we're toast.

lamo ... you do know Lord Barry has done nothing but cash Soros checks for 6 years, dont you? Nothing but stump speeching for dollars. lmao

Bap33 says

corporations do not vote

They pay vast sums for the propaganda that gives you what you think (well sadly, I guess it is) your opinion.

It doesn't cost them that much really, because there are so many morons that eat up all the hate and lies (they tweak it to please low brow racist tastes), that it almost pays for itself with advertising dollars.

Yes, I'm talking about hate radio and Fox.

But they also pay for the lobbyist that rwrite the bills. And they pay for the "think tanks" and much else that drives policy.

Can you say Grover Norquist ? How about Tea Party?

corporations do not vote
welfare sucking hyper-breeding scum do, as do drugged up dopeheads, as do constant-victims (lazy people of color, lazy/ugly people, ect).
and worst of all is the able bodies scum that like keeping the dependants down by handing them wealth. The same people that understand how bad it is to feed a bear in the woods just dont graso how bad it is to remove the need to be productive from men, or the need to choose mates wisely from women.

What America needs less of is forced wealth redistribution, less welfare, less EPA (and everyone of it's sub-groups), to end the entire puplic funded school system, and less liberalism/progressiveism/leftism/anti-freedom/anti-self-reliance/anti-God/anti-Jew/anti-Americanism. We need less Holder, Pelosi, Clinton, Obama, and Sharpton. Less rap, less criminal behavior, less pervertion, less sexual deviant behavior, less time watching TV, less time on the internet, less time spend doing nothing. And less anger. I thought you dope-head hippy types were all about peace and love.

+1

Can we get this into BestOf, please?

marcus says

You've bought the lie.

no, you did. You think the invasion from mexico was no big deal. wanna bet? most of the economic bubble relied on that demographic. And every professional (doctor, teacher, lawyer, RE tycoon) are making big bank off of the invasion.
Prop 187 was the answer and an activist LIBERAL court stopped the voice of California's conservatives. Disgusting liberals are a cancer on America's soul.

marcus says

They pay vast sums for the propaganda that gives you what you think (well
sadly, I guess it is) your opinion.

to whom do they (or anyone) pay to share their message?? To the media outlets who then hand it over to the demoncrats ... NEXT

you need to get The Blaze right away. Subscribe right now! Go!

Self reliance, productivity, not being lazy, having a good work ethic and good ethics in general, "family values", moderation in the most pleasurable things,...etc

These are all good things. Only in Baps warped mind are these antithetical to "liberalism" or to left wing politics (which today means only a little right of center).

Respect for intelligence, and respect for research and science, respect for the arts, repect for people who are way different than I, ....etc...

This is the beginnings of a list that doesn't fit in with the right wing's agenda. Because they need the votes of the rednecks and the fundamentalists, if they are going to be able to get what the plutocrats and corporations want.

I always felt that the lack of respect for intelligence had to do with the fact that most of the more intelligent people with better reasoning skills aren't going to agree with their dogma. How can the right wing dimbulbs reconcile that ?

So they tell them, "don't worry,... I know it seems like the more intelligent people should be better equipped to handle these big questions, but you see they don't have the common sense kind of "feel it in your gut" intelligence that we have. "

Or to put it another way. If most of the people that are more intelligent than you (or way more intelligent), disagree with your ideology, then logically you have no choice but to reject intelligence.

And then we get this bullshit "my opinion is just as valid as yours, regardless of my intelligence." I would agree that everyone's opinion has value, and we are all entitled to our opinion. But when our opinions require a gross rejection of facts, and of intelligence, this should be a red flag, even to those with way below average reasoning skills.

I know what let's do. Let's blame everything we don't like in society on "liberlism."

Not enough jobs. It's the liberal's fault.

Too much debt and spending, It's the liberl's fault.

Too much entitlement among lazy poor youth (let's not talk about the big time entitlement to those making 7 and 8 figure incomes), it's the liberal's fault.

Not enough good Christian, anti sin, anti pleasure seeking values out in the culture, it's the liberls fault.

Miley Cirus changes her look and does a pretty entertaining well practiced perfomance at the VMAs(but a little too crude). It's the liberal's fault.

People like to get their minds altered, with alchohol, or weed, or prescription medications, for various reasons, including the suffering that can occur in life. It's the liberals fault.

People indulge in normal human behavior, including the negative or unhealthy behaviors. It's the liberal's fault.

Liberals are in charge of enabling and promoting all the things that Bap doesn't like in human society. All the negative and unhealthy things. Bap has more in common with the Taliban than he would like to admit.

Wait,...why hasn't obesity and over eating of unhealthy food been blamed on the liberals ? If anything they get blamed for too much attention being paid to eating healthy.

Hmmm. I wonder why...

marcus says

Only in Baps warped mind are these antithetical to "liberalism" or to left wing
politics (which today means only a little right of center).

and there it is ... the liberal's best friend ... relativism. You see, when you have to say something like, "...which TODAY means only a little right of center....", you say something very very important. You see, the target ,or center, between right and left, or right and wrong, only moves or changes in the deviant mind of the liberal/leftist/progressive/anti-America/anti-truth/self-centered type. Like, you, perhaps.
In the right mind of the right-minded the line between right and wrong, or right and left, does not move.
The differences of right and wrong are not relative, they are constant. We choose to CONSERVE their locations, and not DEVIATE from the norm.

marcus says

Liberals are in charge of enabling and promoting all the things that Bap
doesn't like in human society. All the negative and unhealthy things. Bap has
more in common with the Taliban than he would like to admit.

on point one you are correct.
on point two you fail to factor in personal accountablity, freedom and liberty. I am forced to pay for the bad choices of other voters, to the great benifit of a political party I find to be anti-AMerican, and disgusting. If the welfare system were not accessable to abusers, then my Talibanish view would not exist. If the Taliban were to come here, you know they will be harder on you libs and your personal enjoyments than on us greedy fat white conservatives. Plus, they know you aint armed, and they aint stupid.

lol .. and as usual you just skip ahead, attack a personal issue, skip ahead, attack a personal view, skip ahead ...... must you not stay on point? Do you suffer from ADHD or some other made-up-for-undisciplined-asses issue?

Marcus suffers from zimmermanfoundinnocent syndrome.
It's a hard one to get over.....

Bap33 says

Do you suffer from ADHD or some other made-up-for-undisciplined-asses issue?

Bap33 says

us greedy fat white conservatives.

You said you were a "Black African Prince"?

Bap33 says

must [marcus] not stay on point?

For marcus, the point of PatNet is to troll for fights with the people he pretends to ignore, e.g. you. The official title of the thread and his own role as "moderator" are both irrelevant to him, which is why most of his comments are off topic even in his own thread.

marcus says

What scares republicans the most about Obamacare

Simple: that lobby-driven POS shovels huge amounts of money to the campaign finance "donors" that wrote it, and they will finance Democratic candidates to keep it. The Republicans have long had most of the military industrial complex, which profits from killing people quickly, but now the Democrats have the medical industrial complex, which is even bigger because it profits even more from killing people slowly. Either way, people are trapped and slaughtered like CAFO cattle, but the Republicans thought they had cornered the market on using campaign money to fool people into voting against their own interests; now Democrats can outspend Republicans, so Republicans are scared.