patrick.net

jazz_music says

Even the Irish experienced denial of human status for no other reason than being socially vulnerable.

Irish had it worse.

jazz_music says

These atrocities are effects of unregulated capitalism which is both a revolutionary thing that will stop at nothing anytime it exists, mass murder will exist and even be normalized.

You are going to have to show me where Capitalism ever did this:

The release of previously secret reports from the Soviet archives in the 1990s indicate that the victims of repression in the Stalin era were about 9 million persons. Some historians claim that the death toll was around 20 million based on their own demographic analysis and from dated information published before the release of the reports from the Soviet archives.[60] American historian Richard Pipes noted: "Censuses revealed that between 1932 and 1939—that is, after collectivization but before World War II—the population decreased by 9 to 10 million people.[61] In his most recent edition of The Great Terror (2007), Robert Conquest states that while exact numbers may never be known with complete certainty, at least 15 million people were killed "by the whole range of Soviet regime's terrors".[62] Rudolph Rummel in 2006 said that the earlier higher victim total estimates are correct, although he includes those killed by the government of the Soviet Union in other Eastern European countries as well.[63][64] Conversely, J. Arch Getty, Stephen G. Wheatcroft and others insist that the opening of the Soviet archives has vindicated the lower estimates put forth by "revisionist" scholars.[65][66] Simon Sebag Montefiore in 2003 suggested that Stalin was ultimately responsible for the deaths of at least 20 million people.[67]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess_mortality_in_the_Soviet_Union_under_Joseph_Stalin

Or this:

But both Hitler and Stalin were outdone by Mao Zedong. From 1958 to 1962, his Great Leap Forward policy led to the deaths of up to 45 million people – easily making it the biggest episode of mass murder ever recorded.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/giving-historys-greatest-mass-murderer-his-due/%3foutputType=amp

Or even proportionally this:

Pol Pot was born Saloth Sar on May 19, 1925, in Kompong Thom Province, Cambodia. He rose to power as leader of the Khmer Rouge, Cambodia’s Communist regime, which took control of the country in 1975. During its reign, which ended in 1979, Pol Pot oversaw the deaths of an estimated one to two million people from starvation, overwork or execution

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.biography.com/.amp/political-figure/pol-pot

Does everyone forget that just a couple months ago black unemployment was the lowest it’s ever been...and arguably at de facto full employment...all under the Presidency of the terrible racist Donald Trump.

jazz_music says

black people have suffered an almost unique history of being murdered as if their lives LITERALLY do not matter

Try telling that to a Jew, or an Armenian, or a Tutsi.

jazz_music says

Chinese immigrants to some extent in the 1800’s who were somehow procured mainly to reduce costs of labor for building railroads by the oligarchy.

That's definitely true, and continues today, except that the labor is happening in China rather than here, while the oligarchs continue to benefit. Looking at Jeff Bezos here.

jazz_music says

When America was young, black people were kidnapped internationally for profits, enslaved, and denied status as human beings.

This is true, but the majority of Americans arrived after the slaves were freed and had nothing to do with slavery in the least. Every living American black was most definitely not a slave and has the same legal rights as anyone else.

just_dregalicious says

jazz_music says

Even the Irish experienced denial of human status for no other reason than being socially vulnerable.

Irish had it worse.

To be as accurate as I understand it, the Irish had their land expropriated by force (found records of people with my own last name whose land was simply taken in 1640 or so) and did suffer from a lack of legal equality with the English, but they were not overtly massacred outside of the various wars. They were forcibly impoverished to the point of mass death while food was being exported in bulk to England. About a million died in the "great famine" which was only the most recent one.

So you could say they were denied human status when they were starved on their own land. And yes, they were socially vulnerable because they were considered a different "race" with a religion suspected of making them disloyal to the king.

jazz_music says

Crime in the area known as Baldwin Hills, south of Los Angeles, was never so successfully eliminated as when they built the Baldwin Hills Plaza and hired so many young blacks who resided around the area.

There are numerous examples where opportunities to have jobs eliminate crime.

Maybe that can be a model for other areas. How did they deal with the chicken-and-egg problem of no one wanting to invest or shop in high-crime areas?

Patrick says

jazz_music says

Crime in the area known as Baldwin Hills, south of Los Angeles, was never so successfully eliminated as when they built the Baldwin Hills Plaza and hired so many young blacks who resided around the area.

There are numerous examples where opportunities to have jobs eliminate crime.

Maybe that can be a model for other areas. How did they deal with the chicken-and-egg problem of no one wanting to invest or shop in high-crime areas?

It’s a misrepresentation of what happened. Baldwin Hills aka “the Dons” (every street is named Don Thomas Dr., Don Nicholas Dr, etc.) has been an upscale area for decades, well before the Baldwin Hills Plaza.

https://twitter.com/Politisourced/status/1269350819390017537

Now they are going to burn down the diamond district, Limousine liberals wont be happy hearing that!

Gasoline and Knives. Sounds like a peaceful protest.



Time for the Hassidics to whip out the Mazel Tov Cocktails in greeting.

In every country
https://twitter.com/CoileainCuan/status/1269413938648752130

TjeRC2006 says

In every country
https://twitter.com/CoileainCuan/status/1269413938648752130

Fucking animals. Stop most African immigration into Europe (strongly pre-vetted exceptions may apply) and reroute them to jazz who has work for them in a Baldwin hills plaza model.

jazz_music says

No other group of people in our history have been devalued so horribly except tribal Americans and Chinese immigrants...

And the Irish and the Italians, basically any Catholic. Plus the original pilgrims here were fleeing religious oppression in Europe where many were killed. Then lots died over here. How far back do you want to go? Aztecs were chopping of everybody’s heads before Cortez murdered them all. Gingas Khan killed a lot of Chinese people, should Mongolia pay reparations?

We had a black president, still waiting on an Asian or a woman. People need to grown up and take responsibility. As terrible as what that cop did to George Floyd was, that situation was 100% avoidable on Floyd’s part by:

1. Not being on drugs
2. Not using counterfeit money

jazz_music says

Crime in the area known as Baldwin Hills, south of Los Angeles, was never so successfully eliminated as when they built the Baldwin Hills Plaza and hired so many young blacks who resided around the area.

There are numerous examples where opportunities to have jobs eliminate crime.

So you’re saying that Trump was solving the black crime problem in the BEST way with the lowest black unemployment levels in history? Glad to know you’re a Trump fan!
Mind you, I completely agree with your premise. Employment does decrease crime significantly! It’s no coincidence that today’s 50% black unemployment rate comes with a side of riots, crime, and chaos.
We should have fully reopened a month ago, and then this wouldn’t have ever happened.

jazz_music says

The idea of doing that is bad because black people have suffered an almost unique history of being murdered as if their lives LITERALLY do not matter.

Have you heard of Jews? Irish? Russians? Indians? And the list can go on...

And murdered really? I hope u could still find a real history book.

jazz_music says

Capitalism always fails when it’s allowed to exist unregulated, and when capitalism fails the scene is ripe for fascism to take hold.

Government can exist solely to protect wealth, exploit the people and achieve power.

Trump has much to gain by dictatorship. He can go unquestioned in securing more substantial wealth, he can stay out of court and prison. He looks like he’s been pushing for dictatorship all along since he disregards Constitutional limitations when his sworn duty is to protect them.

Uh oh, I criticized Trump. Can y’all stand to have this said without calling me deranged? Give Trump some more time and the circle of people who have reasons to fear him will expand to all of us.

The dominos look so ready for us to fall into a totalitarian dictatorship. So much enforcement, we are a weapons building country of armed forces with a tightly held media in many cases serving state and party propaganda, bouncing from one financial crisis to the next wit...

Jazz, why are you ignoring that Communism has killed far more than Capitalism has...exponentially more.

Your claims fall on deaf ears because the idea that capitalism has killed more than any political ideology is demonstrably false. Read the articles I linked. They are encyclopedia level articles. Factually true and not difficult to understand or read. Btw Capitalism did not result in the nazi or Italian fascism. So there goes another claim

Fact is communism has killed more than any political ideology in history. Stalin, Zedong, Pol Pot, Castro, and now Chavez, not to mention all the eastern block countries have tens of millions of deaths on their hands.

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says

jazz_music says

Capitalism always fails when it’s allowed to exist unregulated, and when capitalism fails the scene is ripe for fascism to take hold.

Government can exist solely to protect wealth, exploit the people and achieve power.

Trump has much to gain by dictatorship. He can go unquestioned in securing more substantial wealth, he can stay out of court and prison. He looks like he’s been pushing for dictatorship all along since he disregards Constitutional limitations when his sworn duty is to protect them.

Uh oh, I criticized Trump. Can y’all stand to have this said without calling me deranged? Give Trump some more time and the circle of people who have reasons to fear him will expand to all of us.

The dominos look so ready for us to fall into a totalitarian dictatorship. So much enforcement, we are a weapons building country of armed forces with a tightly held media in many cases...

There is no difference in reality between communism/marxism and fascism. It's politicians living lavishly controlling the economic production and companies, they just spin it differently. Fascism is more manly, romantic, patriotic and not hiding it's from the top authoritarian nature, while marxism/communism is presenting itself more feminine-centric, anti-patriotic, and egalitarian, but at the top you have the same structures, leaders living lavish lives while their useful idiot brown or redshirts do the dirty work on the ground and terrorize and kill freedom loving citizens. Communists are nothing else than red-painted fascists. In fact, Hitler (Godwin's! law!) was equally left-wing as he was right-wing.

jazz_music says

Crime in the area known as Baldwin Hills, south of Los Angeles, was never so successfully eliminated as when they built the Baldwin Hills Plaza and hired so many young blacks who resided around the area.

There are numerous examples where opportunities to have jobs eliminate crime.

Then why did you support the draconian Covid-19 lockdown? Were you being a racist and deliberately tossing blacks out of jobs?

I wish to note that this discussion can’t reasonably continue if Jazz doesn’t acknowledge that Capitalism is not the most deadly economic system and not even close. Factual basis has been posted and no counter to that factual basis has been made. It’s a major pillar of his argument this far, and one so flawed as to potentially render his opinion moot.

jazz_music says

The idea of doing that is bad because black people have suffered an almost unique history of being murdered as if their lives LITERALLY do not matter.

No other group of people in our history have been devalued so horribly except tribal Americans and Chinese immigrants to some extent in the 1800’s who were somehow procured mainly to reduce costs of labor for building railroads by the oligarchy.

Aren't you contradicting yourself with these two paragraphs? Isn't your support for the riots in essence treating people murdered during the riots as if their lives LITERALLY do not matter? Even lives of black policemen! and black business owners.

jazz_music says

When America was young, black people were kidnapped internationally for profits, enslaved, and denied status as human beings.

Every single race experienced slavery first-hand, including European whites, who were enslaved by Romans of somewhat darker skin and "Barbary Pirates" (muslim regimes of North Africa) as well as fellow whites before Christianity banned enslaving fellow whites in fellow Christiandoms. The alternative treatment for prisoners of war before slavery was killing all the prisoners and eating them! Selfishness predates capitalism and even the human species itself. Why would a tribe (of human or monkeys) waste food feeding defeated enemy males? and females of older than reproductive age? The original solution was that they didn't feed them! The defeated enemies were killed, then cooked and eaten! Except for the females of reproductive age. The introduction of slavery and slave trade was what saved millions of human lives from certain deaths. Sub-Sahara Africa was a land replete with tribal warfare with the goal of eliminating excess population before industrialization. If not for the muslims merchants carting them north to be sold into the Califphates, and then later sea-borne merchants carrying them off to the New World, almost all of those victims of inernecine wars would have been killed . . . just like the European medieval wars saw the mass murder of captured peasant infantry (couldn't sell them into slavery in Christian Europe as enslaving a white Christian was banned, didn't want to waste food/money feeding them, and couldn't allow them to loot their way home-bound through what was now land belonging to the winning side) , while the feudal lords were kept alive for ransom. The slave traders were essentially providing the ransom that incentivized the winning side to feed POW's to keep them alive until shipping was available.

BTW, most blacks in the US, excepting recent immigrants, are not only descendants of slaves but also descendants of Slave-Owners! That's why their skin tone is much lighter than average African blacks, and having average IQ about 20 points higher than average African blacks in Africa.

Buschhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Take a break guys. You CA guys need to get the fuck out of dodge. Go to Idaho or something? I like Bear Lake. Sandpoint was nice too.

I think hell is a beautiful place where everything is wrong. That’s CA. If you can work from “home” just go work wherever you want.

jazz_music says

Capitalism always fails when it’s allowed to exist unregulated, and when capitalism fails the scene is ripe for fascism to take hold.

jazz_music says

FuckTheMainstreamMedia says

Jazz, why are you ignoring that Communism has killed far more

It’s irrelevant here and now.

Disapprove people who would say that others killed more, entitles one to kill no one

The entire foundation of your argument is a false premise. As I stated, there’s no further discussion to be had as your ideas are built on an entirely disprovable premise.

The government helped create the situation with a financial reward for fatherless black households.

I’m acquainted with a lot of them in Florida. I went to school with some in the NYC metro area.

1. Kid grows up with no father. Mother gets HUD, food stamps, earned income credit ($3400/kid).
2. Male kid has discipline and academic problems.
3. Pissed off at lack of success, he rejects the “White man’s system” and does reckless behavior.

Crime is the entry level job with no requirements except a willingness to take risks.
So, the lower academic achievement, the more attractive crime is.
No male I know would wish to be a drone in fast food and be ordered around if he could be his own boss.

Of course we all know aggressive black males are responsible for a lot of violent crime.

Once I got jury duty, the perp was Mexican.
His lawyer asked me if I were walking down the street and some “black or hispanic people” came towards me, would I cross the street. He was establishing my “racism.”

The prosecutor objected to the question.
I now know how I will answer the next time just to fuck with the lawyer.
“I need more facts to answer you. Are they female? Are they under 13? Are they in a wheelchair?” Etc.

jazz_music says

No, I’m not saying that.

I hate to spoil such gladness.

No, what you’re saying is that black violence is countered with employment and responsibility and community involvement. I full agree. Since I am a deplorable Trump supporter for the very reason that he advocates and has worked hard for these exact things, that means you agree with the core tenets of a Trump supporter.
Congratulations! You’re now a Trump supporter!
I knew you’d eventually come around! 😝

jazz_music says

I would be interested to find a graph of crime by poor on people who are meeting their basic needs? --and then break that one down by the races.

The racial factor just might disappear.

It won't. I came to this sad realization about 15 years ago, looking at violent crime rates in West Virginia, Kentucky, Montana, Wyoming, etc -- among the poorest states in the country, and demographically (at least at that time) white. Or look at violent crime rates in Eastern Europe. The poverty of Moldova mirrors any Bangladesh or Ghana, but the violent crime rate is low.

There's nothing about poverty that compels violence against others. Murder, rape, and aggravated assault are all crimes of aggression and opportunism, not need. Burglary, petty theft, forgery, etc will run higher in poor communities (of all colors), but violence is not a given.

Sorry Jazz, but the facts don’t support the Left wing narrative at all. In fact, it’s the opposite and you don’t hear the Right constantly whining about it.

Here are some numbers for Jazz, to help with the "abject bankruptcy":

Homicide rates per 100,000 population: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/murder-rates-by-country.html

Moldova: 3.2
Ghana: 2.1
Bangladesh: 2.2

Baltimore, MD (2018): 51
Chicago, IL (2018): 21
Newark, NJ (2018): 27
St. Louis, MO (2018): 61
New Orleans, LA (2018): 37

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Baltimore-Maryland.html
http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Chicago-Illinois.html
http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Newark-New-Jersey.html
http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-St.-Louis-Missouri.html
http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-New-Orleans-Louisiana.html

Shall I go on? You really want to support warzone levels of homicide with the excuse of "poverty"? You're not helping anyone, least of all the regular citizens of these metro hellholes. Unchecked gang violence, weak school discipline, neutered policing, high unemployment, and endemic excuse making ("it's not my fault; it's racism!") continue the cycle.

jazz_music says

porkchopexpress says

Sorry Jazz, but the facts don’t support the Left wing narrative at all. In fact, it’s the opposite and you don’t hear the Right constantly whining about it.

Notice other than declaring ring wing superiority there is nothing being said other than a stinking apology.

That fact alone betrays the abject bankruptcy of the claim.

You and your Left wing friends really need to read the book Extreme Ownership. There’s a fundamental chasm in human philosophy between the Left and the Right, and it all comes down to individual accountability. Until that chasm is eliminated, there will never be enough common ground to have a united society.

jazz_music says

if white on white was in there it would likely dwarf the other graphs.

Nope. Whites are 2/3 of population and less than half of all violent crime.

White Murder rate is about the same as Europe's, except we have 100M's of private firearms.

Extract a certain ethnicity from the crime stats, and despite being awash in guns, our murder rate would be fractionally higher than Europe.

Tim Aurora says
I think people have stopped looking at the mirror.

When people get older...... that is a fact

TrumpingTits says

Meanwhile, BlackLivesMatter thugs in Belgium.

WTF does Belgium have to do with any of what his happening in the US is beyond me.

Showing them what a good decision diversity and tolerance were?

TrumpingTits says

Meanwhile, BlackLivesMatter thugs in Belgium.

WTF does Belgium have to do with any of what his happening in the US is beyond me.

Free shit is free shit, Belgium or no Belgium.

@Patrick

I’m looking for the source of two stats that I recall reading from you to aid in my discussion with my liberal friends.

Can you help point me to the source:

1.) African Americans make up 13% of the USA but are responsible for 50% of the violent crime.

2.) Whites are 20x at higher risk of violent crime committed by blacks than the inverse.

BayArea says

@Patrick

I’m looking for the source of two stats that I recall reading from you to aid in my discussion with my liberal friends.

Can you help point me to the source:

1.) African Americans make up 13% of the USA but are responsible for 50% of the violent crime.

2.) Whites are 20x at higher risk of violent crime committed by blacks than the inverse.

It’s fbi numbers which I’m sure can be sourced. I’m lazy and did only a google search

Blacks were disproportionately likely to commit homicide and to be the victims. In 2008 the offending rate for blacks was seven times higher than for whites and the victimisation rate was six times higher.

As we found yesterday, 93 per cent of black victims were killed by blacks and 84 per cent of white victims were killed by whites.

Alternative statistics from the FBI are more up to date but include many crimes where the killer’s race is not recorded. These numbers tell a similar story.

In 2013, the FBI has black criminals carrying out 38 per cent of murders, compared to 31.1 per cent for whites. The offender’s race was “unknown” in 29.1 per cent of cases.

What about violent crime more generally? FBI arrest rates are one way into this. Over the last three years of data – 2011 to 2013 – 38.5 per cent of people arrested for murder, manslaughter, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault were black.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime

As to victims....

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

jazz_music says

says

if white on white was in there it would likely dwarf the other graphs.

Nope: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/table-1

Read the facts. Facts matter and the narrative of the racist left media is gaslighting people like Tim. Wake up and smell the burning Tim, people of color commit the vast majority of crimes of violence in this country and blacks who only make up 13% of the population, are responsible for nearly half of these crimes!

Let’s look at just crimes committed by youth in 2016. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/topic-pages/tables/table-21

We see blacks who make up 13% of the population, constituted 413 of 619 Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter arrests and 10,520 of 15,293 robberies. So at a time when most teenagers are spending time studying, playing sports and trying to get into college, black teens are disproportionately committing murder and violent crime. In fact black teens are responsible for more than 2/3 of these crimes!

It is as if crime is a part of inner city black culture that is taught to them even as children.

BayArea says

@Patrick

I’m looking for the source of two stats that I recall reading from you to aid in my discussion with my liberal friends.

Can you help point me to the source:

1.) African Americans make up 13% of the USA but are responsible for 50% of the violent crime.

2.) Whites are 20x at higher risk of violent crime committed by blacks than the inverse.

The graphs of the FBI numbers are easily available. And graphs are clearer than a spreadsheet.

50% of the Black population is male 50% female. The females do not commit a huge amount of violent crime.

Therefore, you get about 50% of the violent crime in America committed by about 6 1/2% of the population (that being Black males).

If you factor in age, it becomes even more lopsided. A very small percentage of the population commits an abundance of the violent crime.

WookieMan says

Take a break guys. You CA guys need to get the fuck out of dodge. Go to Idaho or something? I like Bear Lake. Sandpoint was nice too.

FK that

A bit incoherent, but I'll try to reply:

jazz_music says

A brutal austerity has befallen America since Reagan's time with the lie of trickle down economics, the busting of unions, the revolutionary Powell memorandum all because of propagandizing libertarian themes, free market magic and removing all the common-sense policies that every other civilized country in the world practices.

Crime rates took off in the 1970's before Reaganomics. The cause was lax policing and hands-off policies. It wasn't until Bill Bratton's "broken windows" approach of the mid-90's that crime got under control. But, the left hasn't learned a thing and is in the process of recreating the 1970's. Ah, nostalgia!

jazz_music says

The whole right wing revolution exists to make wages cheaper. It's now America can't do anything but assure the wealthy empires and wage terror and war on the world.

The right wing contains many disaffected leftists who recognize that both parties supported GATT, NAFTA, China's "most favored nation" status in WTO, and now TPP (Obama's baby). Reaganomics was just the beginning -- Bush I and II, Clinton, and Obama continued the same policies. Trump through opposing unilateral trade deals, off-shoring manufacturing, and tariff-free insourcing of product, has defied his globalist betters. And they hate him for it. And they've convinced you to hate him too.

jazz_music says

Life expectancy is now tied to wealth.

Life expectancy over the last 20 years has gone up for every group -- black, hispanic, and asian -- EXCEPT whites. And no one bothered to notice the suicide and opioid-induced increase in white mortality until 2014. (The authors originally had a hard time getting it reviewed, let alone published -- not that the data was bad, but that it countered the narrative of oppressed POC and privileged PO-"whiteness.")

jazz_music says

Murders per se are defined by how you count them for a desired narrative.

Murders are in fact the gold standard in crime reporting. A dead person is hard to overlook, and even if hidden, family or friends will notify police. There is no grey area there, as you allege, particularly not in our inner cities where levels are routinely over 20 dead per 100K per annum. Warzone levels of criminality.

jazz_music says

Your desire is evidently to establish one or more races as genetically inferior or murderous. So what about all those BROWN PEOPLE in Moldova, Ghana, Bangladesh, they fit your sick narrative.

Bizarre and ignorant. I included all three nations to represent black (Ghana), brown (Bangladesh), and white (Moldova), to show that outsized criminality is not a necessary condition of being poor, or indeed of being black. And Moldova is a slavic country, FYI.

There's something sick in encouraging structureless, fatherless "communities of color" through perverse benefits incentives, weak school discipline, and increasingly weak policing. It becomes Lord of the Flies when the 15-35 year old demographic controls the streets, unemployed, with criminal enterprises to fund their gangs (drugs, prostitution, gun-running).

The left, in retaining purity of heart, looks the other way on random acts of violence -- and then blames police or racism or anything but the perpetrators.