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Stock market and housing bubble.


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2021 Jan 6, 11:11am   22,520 views  416 comments

by RC2006   ➕follow (2)   💰tip   ignore  

With all that's going on how is stock market going up, is it inflation speculation driving it? Are we approaching housing bubble?

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347   mell   2021 Apr 30, 2:17pm  

Patrick says
Good point. The first 40% up is 40% of a smaller number, so 40% up then down leaves you at 84% of original number:

1.4 * 0.6 = 0.84

Still, on average you do win in the stock market. It's like a casino with an upward bias, unlike Vegas casinos.


Also you can't compound the numbers in that graph so you're not really going up 40% from the starting point if you make 40% 2 years in a row. But def looks like a casino with a healthy upward bias.
348   clambo   2021 Apr 30, 3:34pm  

I only want 5% higher W5000.

I would prefer not much more capital appreciation if I would not pay high taxes.

But, I'm afraid we're fucked after 2025 when the Bush tax cuts expire. Add Biden tax raises and feel the pain.
349   Patrick   2021 Apr 30, 3:36pm  

clambo says
we're fucked after 2025 when the Bush tax cuts expire


@clambo What are the details of those Bush tax cuts?
350   clambo   2021 May 1, 5:58am  

One tax which is going up automatically is the capital gains tax.

I’m going to be fucked it looks like.
351   zzyzzx   2021 May 27, 7:15am  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5U9mV7ombQ

Houses that would normally have 5 to 15 offers aren't getting any: John Pasalis
352   rocketjoe79   2021 May 27, 1:05pm  

Houses in my area (NorCal) are flying off the shelves. 2-3 days sell time when a house comes up, zero inventory (except trash pits.)
353   WookieMan   2021 May 27, 1:13pm  

rocketjoe79 says
Houses in my area (NorCal) are flying off the shelves. 2-3 days sell time when a house comes up, zero inventory (except trash pits.)

I've said it before. A family of 4 was given $160k of purchase power with the last round of stimulus round alone. $5,600 down on FHA or conventional.

We're going to see a quick spike as the inventory is eaten up and people burn their stimulus. Won't be a crash, but wouldn't touch housing right now. People given free money do stupid shit. 12-24 months they'll be delinquent. Getting a downpayment doesn't mean you can pay it. We're at a peak or about to be. Probably will just stagnate without further money printing and stimulus. I know there's inflation everywhere, but I think a lot of working families got a free government check for a down payment.

CA is an anomaly, so I can't predict that. Most the country will go sideways or slight decline without even more inflation. Shit, my airline points doubled from what I usually pay to DEN. 6-8k points was the norm for a non-stop. 15k for my June trip to Red Rocks.
354   zzyzzx   2021 May 28, 6:08am  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui7DWkaBNoI

Bidding wars calm down as sellers come to market
355   zzyzzx   2021 Jun 25, 6:49am  

Excellent analysis of the Tampa area:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCd5kjDXk7o

One thing they guy is showing how deaths are going to influence housing availability.
356   clambo   2021 Jun 25, 10:33am  

I would not expect Florida real estate to "crash" because there is high demand from people escaping taxes, fucked politics, crime and snow.

The scenery and weather aren't as good as California, but they're mostly coming from NYC, NJ, Michigan and other places that kind of suck.
357   zzyzzx   2021 Jun 25, 10:53am  

clambo says
I would not expect Florida real estate to "crash" because there is high demand from people escaping taxes, fucked politics, crime and snow.

The scenery and weather aren't as good as California, but they're mostly coming from NYC, NJ, Michigan and other places that kind of suck.


As expensive as Tampa is right now, I would not be surprised to see it correct. Not at the 50% level, but at some meaningful level yes.
358   Bitcoin   2021 Jun 25, 2:40pm  

Does anyone have any good stock tips and reason behind it?

Thinking of adding to my S&P500, QQQ, and reits. AAPL and TMO are also on my list. Appreciate any feedback.
359   theoakman   2021 Jun 25, 2:42pm  

Taiwan semiconductor. Everyone needs their products and demand has consistently continued to grow. They are always ahead of their competition on technology as well.
360   Ceffer   2021 Jun 25, 2:53pm  

clambo says
I would not expect Florida real estate to "crash"

361   Bitcoin   2021 Jun 25, 2:56pm  

theoakman says
Taiwan semiconductor

Thanks!! just reading up on it. Will add that one to my portfolio....they have a gross margin of 50% and operating margin of 40%. Morningstar determines fair value at 133......stock is trading at 116.
362   Ceffer   2021 Jun 25, 2:59pm  

We're getting solicitations to sell all the time now. Passive stack has gone up many fleet Hummers since January with lots left over for hookers and blow. I hope it makes up for the value burning inflationary spiral at least.
363   Patrick   2021 Jun 25, 3:10pm  

Bitcoin says
Does anyone have any good stock tips and reason behind it?


@Bitcoin

I still think SHOP has longer to go on its epic bull run because they are the dominant way to set up a commercial website.

I think FRO is crazy undervalued. I don't know why that is, but it's so cheap and revenue keeps increasing, so I bought some.

I think LUV will easily regain its former highs and keep going because their customer service is so superior to other airlines'.

I would avoid any cannabis-related stocks. I got slaughtered on each one I bought. I guess it's ultimately just a commodity.

Funeral homes might do well if lots more people do drop dead from the "vaccine", so I'm considering SCI, which has a p/e of only 14 and a dividend. It's sad, but hey, I'm not the one murdering all those people with viruses and "vaccines", Fauci is.

I bought some shares in LAND, a small REIT which buys farmland.

Overall, I think the market is too high and could easily crash and stay down for years, as it has twice before in my memory. I'm willing to wait that out.
364   mell   2021 Jun 25, 3:38pm  

Patrick says
Bitcoin says
Does anyone have any good stock tips and reason behind it?


@Bitcoin

I still think SHOP has longer to go on its epic bull run because they are the dominant way to set up a commercial website.

I think FRO is crazy undervalued. I don't know why that is, but it's so cheap and revenue keeps increasing, so I bought some.

I think LUV will easily regain its former highs and keep going because their customer service is so superior to other airlines'.

I would avoid any cannabis-related stocks. I got slaughtered on each one I bought. I guess it's ultimately just a commodity.

Funeral homes might do well if lots more people do drop dead from the "vaccine", so I'm considering SCI, which has a p/e of only 14 and a dividend. It's sad, but hey, I'm not the one murdering all those people with viruses and "vaccines", Fauci is.

I bought some shares in LAN...


@Patrick the cash to debt ratio for FRO is horrendous. That's why they're undervalued. If they can stay profitable, grow net revs and keep chipping away at the debt while servicing it it's a great stock which could net crazy gains but you have to bet on a continued rebound for years. Any crisis will rapidly increase the debt again and wipe out prior progress. That's why it's possible that they will do a capital raise to pay off more debt and dilute soon. Esp. if the price keeps climbing. That being said, it's probably one of the best shippers to own. Spot prices have been rising and the outlook is decent. High insider ownership is also a good sign.
365   Patrick   2021 Jun 25, 3:42pm  

Maybe it's a question of interest rates. As long as rates are artificially held near zero, they can support quite a lot of debt.
366   mell   2021 Jun 25, 4:23pm  

Patrick says
Maybe it's a question of interest rates. As long as rates are artificially held near zero, they can support quite a lot of debt.


Yeah as long as they can roll it over and find lenders it's fine. We have expected rates to rise now for almost 10 years and they have neared and stayed at historic lows. Also I noticed that there quarterly growth has been slumping but that may likely have been Covid standstill and the whole industry is coming out of it now.
367   Eman   2021 Jun 25, 5:16pm  

6 months later, the stock market and the housing market, both, are at all time high. 🤑🤑🤑
368   Eman   2021 Jun 25, 5:45pm  

Now, the question is are we in a bubble?
369   Patrick   2021 Jun 25, 5:51pm  

Easy to answer that:

Is the cost of owning more than the cost of renting the same thing over the typical 6 or 7 year holding period for a house?

You can use the NY Slimes rent-vs-buy calculator.
370   Eman   2021 Jun 25, 6:07pm  

You haven’t changed your flawed thesis Patrick. 👍
371   Patrick   2021 Jun 25, 6:14pm  

What's flawed about it?
372   Shaman   2021 Jun 25, 6:30pm  

Eman says
6 months later, the stock market and the housing market, both, are at all time high. 🤑🤑🤑


And while I bought my house with 20% down, I’m approaching 50% equity.
373   porkchopXpress   2021 Jun 25, 7:18pm  

Eman says
You haven’t changed your flawed thesis Patrick. 👍
It's not flawed if the Fed didn't meddle so ginormously in the market.
374   mell   2021 Jun 25, 7:26pm  

There's no prolonged crash on the horizon this year, maybe brief corrections like we have seen but stock and hosting market will continue to climb. Out of controls rates, back to back bad auctions or a surprise Fed rate hike could trigger a bigger correction, and, as always poor earnings and layoffs (which are nowhere in sight). We gotta wait for inflation to keep climbing, not damaging enough yet.
375   mich   2021 Jun 25, 7:41pm  

rocketjoe79 says
Houses in my area (NorCal) are flying off the shelves. 2-3 days sell time when a house comes up, zero inventory (except trash pits.)
Where are you in NorCal? I'm in Sonoma County. I'm glad I didn't buy here in 2015 the fires suck!
376   mich   2021 Jun 25, 7:42pm  

Shorting S&P got half on will add other mon..using an inverse etf wish me luck :P
377   mich   2021 Jun 25, 7:45pm  

Patrick says
Yes, going to check out Washington State in June or so, anywhere except Seattle.

No income tax there, nice scenery, some relatives.

I'll go anywhere that does not demand me to show papers proving I've been injected with an experimental agent to make Fauci rich.


Tennessee no income tax in 2021! Southern people are the nicest! I enjoyed my trip to NC! I'm going back in Oct and plan to move next year! The state is filled with trees. Pretty cool when you go walking at night, there's fireflies and bunnies hopping around.
378   Blue   2021 Jun 25, 8:13pm  

Never ending almost zero rate gov money drives markets for decades already. In BA companies are minting millionaires at record rate. Most of the tech money chasing very few available housing around and elsewhere. There no new housing being built and there is no skin in the game to sell under 1978 Prop 13 for existing houses. Unless market crashes and companies start mass layoffs, housing can keep going up even more on latest hyper inflation. Inflation is a friend of money transfer from savers to debtors. Govs around became like a drunken sailors lately with financial engineering.
379   Misc   2021 Jun 25, 8:38pm  

There has been continuous and ever increasing interference in the markets by governments and their proxies (banks). There is now very little physical investment in pretty much any enterprise. Nobody is willing to put their own money at risk in new endeavors.

The savings rate of the upper 10% of the income distribution dwarfs the meager physical investment in the economy.

The shear amount of mal-investment is astounding.
380   Ceffer   2021 Jun 25, 10:25pm  

Yes, I got a 6 million dollar offer on my California crap shack if I allow it to be come a secret command, control and coordination center for the Chinese Army. 300 percent instant appreciation! I can even still live there if I want and play with the hi end electronics.
381   Eman   2021 Jun 25, 10:28pm  

mich says
Shorting S&P got half on will add other mon..using an inverse etf wish me luck :P


Seems like a decent entry. Good luck
382   Eman   2021 Jun 25, 10:29pm  

porkchopexpress says
Eman says
You haven’t changed your flawed thesis Patrick. 👍
It's not flawed if the Fed didn't meddle so ginormously in the market.


Or you can use it to your advantage rather than blaming the Fed.
383   Eman   2021 Jun 25, 10:32pm  

Patrick says
What's flawed about it?


No point of rehashing this. By your definition, a house in the ghetto and a house in a nice part of town are almost the same price as the rents are not that much difference.
384   Eman   2021 Jun 25, 10:33pm  

Misc says
There has been continuous and ever increasing interference in the markets by governments and their proxies (banks). There is now very little physical investment in pretty much any enterprise. Nobody is willing to put their own money at risk in new endeavors.

The savings rate of the upper 10% of the income distribution dwarfs the meager physical investment in the economy.

The shear amount of mal-investment is astounding.


Nobody? Elon Musk put his last millions in Tesla when it was on the verge of going bankrupt. Go Elon. 🚀🚀

When the stock market crashed in March last year, my buddy took $280k of cash out refi proceeds and put it in the stock market. He gained over $500k by year end. His biggest gain was buying TSLA at $589/share pre-split.

We can choose to keep marching forward in the face of adversities, or we can sit around whine and bitch. We all have a choice. People are where they are in life for a reason.
385   Misc   2021 Jun 25, 10:58pm  

Eman says
Misc says
There has been continuous and ever increasing interference in the markets by governments and their proxies (banks). There is now very little physical investment in pretty much any enterprise. Nobody is willing to put their own money at risk in new endeavors.

The savings rate of the upper 10% of the income distribution dwarfs the meager physical investment in the economy.

The shear amount of mal-investment is astounding.


Nobody? Elon Musk put his last millions in Tesla when it was on the verge of going bankrupt. Go Elon. 🚀🚀

When the stock market crashed in March last year, my buddy took $280k of cash out refi proceeds and put it in the stock market. He gained over $500k by year end. His biggest gain was buying TSLA at $589/share pre-split.

We can choose to keep marching forward in the face of adversities, or we can sit around whine and bitch. We all have a c...


Thank you for making my point. TSLA has total assets of about $52 billion, $28 billion in debt leaving about $24 billion in invested capital.

For this $24 billion in invested capital it has a market cap of about $650 billion. So for every $1 million of real investment, "investors" have ponied up $26 million of their "savings" because there is nothing to invest in.
386   Eman   2021 Jun 26, 12:24am  

Misc says
Eman says
Misc says
There has been continuous and ever increasing interference in the markets by governments and their proxies (banks). There is now very little physical investment in pretty much any enterprise. Nobody is willing to put their own money at risk in new endeavors.

The savings rate of the upper 10% of the income distribution dwarfs the meager physical investment in the economy.

The shear amount of mal-investment is astounding.


Nobody? Elon Musk put his last millions in Tesla when it was on the verge of going bankrupt. Go Elon. 🚀🚀

When the stock market crashed in March last year, my buddy took $280k of cash out refi proceeds and put it in the stock market. He gained over $500k by year end. His biggest gain was buying TSLA at $589/share pre-split.

We can choose to keep marching forward ...


If that’s how you view TSLA without factor in their growth, you’re missing the entire boat. $1M for every $26M represents a 3.8% return. This ROI may seem pathetic, but it’s more than the borrowing cost from the bank. Once the projected growth of the company is factored in, the ROI goes up exponentially. Cathie Wood has a vision on TSLA, and she has been dead on with her projection. I’d put my money on her and Elon any day of the week.

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