patrick.net

MolotovCocktail says

Yes. But HOW does that get communicated in listings to potential buyers and their agents?

I do not know how it is communicated, but I do remember the "3-2-1 buydown" that was popular in the 80s when interests rates were as high as 20%. Somehow the work got out.

MolotovCocktail says

Say Joe & Jill Sixpack would-be homebuyer get pre-approved for $XXX,XXX amount of a mortgage. Their realtard™ knows this. So any listing more gets filtered out.

Unless the realtard™ filters by price the buyers could afford if the rate was at the buydown amount.

HeadSet says

MolotovCocktail says

Yes. But HOW does that get communicated in listings to potential buyers and their agents?

I do not know how it is communicated, but I do remember the "3-2-1 buydown" that was popular in the 80s when interests rates were as high as 20%. Somehow the work got out.

MolotovCocktail says

Say Joe & Jill Sixpack would-be homebuyer get pre-approved for $XXX,XXX amount of a mortgage. Their realtard™ knows this. So any listing more gets filtered out.

Unless the realtard™ filters by price the buyers could afford if the rate was at the buydown amount.

Yes. The realtard™ filters by price, of course.

MolotovCocktail says

AD says

Emphasize it in the listing like in the Zillow description for the home, and get the word passed to the buyers agents.

That's a shitty way of doing it if the agent filters out houses by listing prices their client can't afford.

The sellers agent tells the buyer agents about this, as they market the home with that offer to buy up to 4 discount points.

Also most buyers will look within Zillow at the other listings in the townhome HOA and will see in all capital letters about the incentive to buy up to 4 discount points. I know from talking with buyer agents that this is common behavior for buyers to check Zillow.

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AD says

The sellers agent tells the buyer agents about this, as they market the home with that offer to buy up to 4 discount points.

The seller agent the buyer agent never contacts in the first place because the property is filtered out in the listing search to begin with?

What is so difficult about this to understand?

MolotovCocktail says

AD says

The sellers agent tells the buyer agents about this, as they market the home with that offer to buy up to 4 discount points.

The seller agent the buyer agent never contacts in the first place because the property is filtered out in the listing search to begin with?

What is so difficult about this to understand?

What you continue to not recognize is I go with a local large real estate company like Counts which has a lot of buyer agents.

My sellers agent contacts his friends in Counts who are buyer agents representing buyers and tells them about a townhome sale that is offering up to 4 discount points.

I know this because my wife's friend who has been a real estate agent for at least 25 years told us that is how it works in the Florida panhandle.

And what you also seem to not recognize is most of the buyers I've spoken with in our townhome HOA told me they used Zillow as a way to look at properties they are interested in, and did not get spoon fed by their buyers agent.
.

AD says

What you continue to not recognize is I go with a local large real estate company like Counts which has a lot of buyer agents.

My sellers agent contacts his friends in Counts who are buyer agents representing buyers and tells them about a townhome sale that is offering up to 4 discount points.

I know this because my wife's friend who has been a real estate agent for at least 25 years told us that is how it works in the Florida panhandle.

And what you also seem to not recognize is most of the buyers I've spoken with in our townhome HOA told me they used Zillow as a way to look at properties they are interested in, and did not get spoon fed by their buyers agent.

What you don't understand:

1) Your story is anecdotal. Fine for you but in no way addresses the points I have made for everyone else in the aggregate. Big clue for you: Rest of the country isn't the Florida panhandle. You are like Someone-else-on-PatNet-I-don't-care-to-start-another-thread-rage-right-now in this way.

2) As a client, I don't want to be limited to one subset of properties no matter how large the firm is. Maybe that is just me. Seems you prove that point in ppl looking on Zillow, too.

Speaking of Zillow:

3) Zillow doesn't show that data unless its in the Description. And even there, it won't be put on uniformy so as to be reliably searchable. Use of 'Points' vs 'pts' for example. You and are smart enough to think.to filter for both, but is your avg Joe Sixpac?

No matter what, it's a shitty & unreliable way for price discovery to happen.

Plus, it is only good for sellers who have the cash.

A lot won't. Esp not after they have to put $$$ in for upgrades.

Am I correct in assuming that unless the seller has cash to put into escrow first for the points to be bought down on the mortgage when or right after the loan is finalized, it can't hapoen. Because the mortgage lender can't apply the points after the mortgage is finalized from the proceeds of the sale? A timing thing in what happens when, basically.

Or can they do that? If so, then point discounting can certainly be something all sellers would be able to do. That would be cool.

MolotovCocktail says

1) Your story is anecdotal. Fine for you but in no way addresses the points I have made for everyone else in the aggregate. Big clue for you: Rest of the country isn't the Florida panhandle. You are like Someone-else-on-PatNet-I-don't-care-to-start-another-thread-rage-right-now in this way.

I just give a shit about the best place on Earth which is the Florida panhandle.

I am telling you boy, that I have done the same as other buyers in my townhome HOA as far as look at listings on Zillow and read the descriptions like what incentives are offered like seller to offer money to buy mortgage points, etc.

You telling me that only the Florida panhandle has sophisticated buyers like those who will read the descriptions in the Zillow listings ?

Good question:

AD says

I just give a shit about the best place on Earth which is the Florida panhandle.

So fucking what. Non-sequitor. Save it for your next Comerce Circle Jerk mtg.

AD says

that I have done the same as other buyers in my townhome HOA as far as look at listings on Zillow and read the descriptions like what incentives are offered like seller to offer money to buy mortgage points, etc.

THAT'S YOU. And good for you.

AD says

You telling me that only the Florida panhandle has sophisticated buyers like those who will read the descriptions in the Zillow listings ?

Nope. Because not even in the Florida is your average buyer 'sophisticated'.

You seem to think what goes on in your little world is indicative of the rest of it.

Your avg buyer and one who searches for shit online is definitely not sophisticated as you think.

And even if they were, your avg seller doesn't have the fucking money to pony up for this, either.

If you think otherwise to any of that, this is for you:

MolotovCocktail says

Nope. Because not even in the Florida is your average buyer 'sophisticated'.

How the fuck do you know ? You live in the Democrat shithole California.

MolotovCocktail says

And even if they were, your avg seller doesn't have the fucking money to pony up for this, either.

Points are generally a home builder thing. It's of no benefit to get a higher price for the seller of a used home, they just want their equity out of the home. A lower price will sell it quicker and likely for more than doing the points because more people will see the home in their search.

A home builder or developer can write it off as an expense if they offer points. That way the prices look higher than they really are. One sale at say $250k leads to the next one being $255k, then $260k even though it cost the same to build. Used homes there's no reason to keep prices inflated unless it's in a very active HOA that wants to keep prices high. Which is fine, but it is rare in most locations.

Also most Realtors want sales as even an above average one is getting 6-8 sales a year. In high priced markets you might make $60-100k net with brokerage split. Basically most brokers don't do much business and likely have no clue about points. A sale equals lower price and more eyes on it. That's how my office got through the crash. Short sales. The seller and our office didn't give a shit about prices. We'd show up at the BPO with our own comps and hand them to them. Most would take them and put the contract price in that we had.

$50k less than list is money left on the table for sure for a broker. No sale is $0 plus costs to the broker. Put this way it's pointless for them to play with points. Again lower price equals more eyes on your property and a higher chance of a sale.

AD says

DemoralizerOfPanicans says

https://wolfstreet.com/2025/09/29/the-lock-in-effect-and-mortgage-rates-update-on-unwinding-a-phenomenon-that-wrecked-the-housing-market/

The only way out of this trap is to lower the price of homes, which lowers the underlying price assessment for insurance and property taxes.

Looks like about 70% of mortgages are no more than at an interest rate of 5%.

Prices now down around 15% from all time high price set in early 2022 in Panama City Beach.
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Interesting article about the impact of low interest rates on the housing market dynamics.

https://thedailyeconomy.org/article/housings-deep-freeze-existing-home-sales-at-25-year-lows/

AD says

MolotovCocktail says

Nope. Because not even in the Florida is your average buyer 'sophisticated'.

How the fuck do you know ? You live in the Democrat shithole California.

Logic. Which you seem to refuse to engage in just to continue living in your Marie Antionette bubble.

You refusal to acknowledge that your typical house hunter doesn't even know wtf a point even is and that your typical seller has the money to offer to do that is your undoing.

You see l, there's this whole world outside of your Florida Circle Jerk Zone.

DemoralizerOfPanicans says

Vegas is based on employment. They have low employment because of online gaming, sports betting and slot machines in every gas station across the country. Vegas tourism is dead currently. Unless they cut room rates back to 90's and early 2000's rates no one is going there or gambling except poor white people thinking going to Vegas would be fun. It's a dead city. So it's no surprise values are down. Actually surprised it's not more on the downswing.

For the last 3.5 years people have been braying about how now is a terrible time to buy a house. They use all kinds of historical measures to persuade people not to buy. The market sentiment in the residential real estate market is low. Prices nationwide have dropped a whole 1% from the peak, which occurred this summer. Residential real estate does not exist in a vacuum. Sentiment can change and change rapidly.

There are only about 2 million houses up for sale. With an average price of $430k, it puts the value up for sale at about $86 billion. The stock market is up about 15% this year or about $8 trillion. So, if about 1% of the stock market's gain were to look for diversification into another asset like residential real estate...well all that inventory is simply gone in the blink of an eye.

Yes, the stock market is waaaaaaay over valued and money managers are looking anywhere to put their coin.

Again sentiment can change on a dime.

Realtors (I’m in the DMV) are starting to tell me the market is turning. Lots of price drops.

https://reventureapp.blog/us-housing-bubble-2025-bigger-than-2006/

WookieMan says

Actually surprised it's not more on the downswing.

Agreed. And deportation of illegals is going to hit cities like Vegas hard.

Isn't this fraud?

MolotovCocktail says

Isn't this fraud?

yes, 18 U.S.C. § 1343

no way it is not a fake post

PeopleUnited says

WookieMan says

Actually surprised it's not more on the downswing.

Agreed. And deportation of illegals is going to hit cities like Vegas hard.

Do you mean a lot of apartment and house vacancies will result from deportations?

So what percentage of rental housing was with undocumented or illegal immigrants in Las Vegas prior to Trump's second inauguration?

What percentage of illegal immigrants in Las Vegas will get arrested and what percentage of those arrested will get deported during the Trump administration?

Remember Trump admin is arresting even immigrants who having pending green card applications as there may be an arrest quota.

What happens is there is a due process involved after the arrest where they may not be immediately deported especially if they already have pending status like a green card application still under review.

AD says

yes, 18 U.S.C. § 1343

no way it is not a fake post

I reported it to X. They don't care.

Not a fake. Fucker posted it.

https://x.com/chasedownleads/status/1980310381429141514

Here he is:



Doesn't identify as a parody account but it seems that he is.

Say, could underpricing by realturds be prosecuted under 18 U.S.C. § 1343?

They advertise a fraudulent price which they know the buyer will never accept. That's standard practice in CA.

AD says

What happens is there is a due process involved after the arrest where they may not be immediately deported especially if they already have pending status like a green card application still under review.

Deportations are legally an administrative function, not a criminal enforcement one. Thus they do not 'arrest'. They 'detain'. It's why these idiot judge rulings get completely overturned so often.

I suppose green card petitioners have more due process rights, but not much more. I remember reading through my wife's green card docs and it was clearly stated she could be deported anyway. Green cards are still visas, despite what some activists/politicians...even lawyers..bullshit otherwise while on TV.

Will see how housing fares in these 22 states especially if housing prices were very inflated compared to the other 28 states.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/economist-mark-zandi-says-these-22-states-have-slipped-into-recession-based-on-2-clear-indicators-could-the-ripple-effects-hit-your-wallet-next/ar-AA1OXMkJ

The states that Zandi believes are in recession are as follows: Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Virginia, Washington, Washington, D.C., West Virginia, and Wyoming.

So, only the hipster states?

AD says

Will see how housing fares in these 22 states especially if housing prices were very inflated compared to the other 28 states.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/economist-mark-zandi-says-these-22-states-have-slipped-into-recession-based-on-2-clear-indicators-could-the-ripple-effects-hit-your-wallet-next/ar-AA1OXMkJ

The states that Zandi believes are in recession are as follows: Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Virginia, Washington, Washington, D.C., West Virginia, and Wyoming.

How in the heck can Virginia, DC and Maryland be in this list? Because of the government shutdown?

GNL says

So, only the hipster states?

Explain any of them? Have you been to Wyoming or MT? IL is just fine. Kansas, SD and Iowa are odd balls I don't believe that are down. Need to see stats and they won't be provided.

But yes the list proves coastal and hipster areas. Surprised Idaho isn't on there. 3 out of 50 states. Math.

GNL says

How in the heck can Virginia, DC and Maryland be in this list? Because of the government shutdown?

Yes, as I suspect likely a lot of federal government contractors being laid off also. Consider alone the cuts to USAID.

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GNL says

How in the heck can Virginia, DC and Maryland be in this list?

I have been seeing price drops on acreages over the last few months in the Northern VA area, similar to this:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/37016-Longmoor-Farm-Ln-Purcellville-VA-20132/82560668_zpid/

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https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-average-mortgage-rates-across-the-u-s-in-2025/

Florida's average mortgage rate is around 6.2%. I would think with all the buying over the last 10 years in Florida and with FHA and VA mortgages being very popular, that the average mortgage rate would be well below 6.2%.

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Bad news for the Housing Doomers. The Case/Shiller went up a tiny amount month over month in the latest readings I normally wouldn't read too much into a single data point, but mortgage rates have continued to decrease since then. If rates continue down and housing prices go up even a little bit over the next 3-4 months we may see a FOMO homebuying blitz during next year's Spring season.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CSUSHPISA

Misc says

Bad news for the Housing Doomers. The Case/Shiller went up a tiny amount month over month in the latest readings I normally wouldn't read too much into a single data point, but mortgage rates have continued to decrease since then. If rates continue down and housing prices go up even a little bit over the next 3-4 months we may see a FOMO homebuying blitz during next year's Spring season.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CSUSHPISA

Hahaha

Misc says

Bad news for the Housing Doomers. The Case/Shiller went up a tiny amount month over month in the latest readings I normally wouldn't read too much into a single data point, but mortgage rates have continued to decrease since then. If rates continue down and housing prices go up even a little bit over the next 3-4 months we may see a FOMO homebuying blitz during next year's Spring season.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CSUSHPISA

Depends on housing market consumer sentiment which is based on economic factors like stock market and employment conditions.

Of course it depends on the local market such as here in Panama City Florida there has been noticeable job growth not just in the tourism industry such as Eastern Shipyard is expanding and there is an aerospace campus to be built which will add at least 1500 new long-term jobs.

Rents have essentially been frozen in Panama City for last 3 years, but housing costs are going down like property insurance, HOA regular assessments, etc.

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That’s the first I’ve heard about insurance going down. It’s been reported for some time now that insurance has been going up.

Glock-n-Load says

That’s the first I’ve heard about insurance going down. It’s been reported for some time now that insurance has been going up.

Florida property insurance has gone down after Ron DeSantis insurance reforms.

Yes, Florida has enacted reforms that effectively cap certain lawsuits against property insurance carriers—especially by limiting attorney fees, shortening filing windows, and restricting bad faith claims.
Here’s a breakdown of the key legal changes affecting property insurance litigation in Florida:

⚖️ Legal Caps and Restrictions on Lawsuits
1. Attorney Fee Limits
• SB 2-A (2022 Special Session) eliminated the longstanding “one-way attorney fee” provision.
• Previously, policyholders who won against insurers could recover legal fees.
• Now, each party pays their own legal costs, making lawsuits less financially viable for many homeowners.
2. Shortened Filing Deadlines
• Claims must now be filed within 1 year of the date of loss (down from 2 years).
• Supplemental claims must be filed within 18 months.
3. Bad Faith Lawsuits Curtailed
• Policyholders cannot file bad faith lawsuits unless they first win a breach of contract case.
• This change significantly reduces the number of high-dollar punitive claims against insurers.
4. Assignment of Benefits (AOB) Restrictions
• AOB agreements—where contractors sue insurers directly—are now heavily restricted.
• This reform has cut down on third-party litigation, which was a major driver of insurance costs.

Impact on Homeowners and Insurers
• These reforms aim to stabilize Florida’s insurance market, which has been plagued by high litigation rates and insurer insolvencies.
• Critics argue they limit consumer protections, while supporters say they reduce fraud and frivolous lawsuits.
If you're analyzing how these changes affect Panama City Beach homeowners or comparing litigation trends pre- and post-reform, I can help chart that out. Want to see how lawsuit volume or average payouts have shifted since SB 2-A? Just say the word.

Desperately trying to prop up wildly inflated house pices with more debt...just like Japan tried when their housing market crashed and never recovered.

https://ground.news/article/thiel-says-housing-crisis-pushes-millennials-toward-socialism_7f8c3b

Peter Thiel's 2020 private email resurfaced and went viral after Zohran Mamdani's mayoral victory, with Chamath Palihapitiya posting a screenshot on X on November 5, 2025, and Business Insider verifying it.

Peter Thiel wrote in January 2020 that too much student debt and unaffordable housing leave Millennials with negative capital, noting 70% identify as pro-socialist in a message to Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook CEO, and Marc Andreessen, venture capitalist.

Thiel told the Free Press Friday that strict zoning and construction limits have benefited boomers while making homebuying extremely hard for millennials, warning this could push young people toward extremist ideologies.

Polling expert Frank Luntz called the off-year results a 'wake-up call' as an August Gallup poll found 49% adults 18 to 34 held a positive view of socialism.

Thiel, often described as a libertarian who supported President Donald Trump, urged Mark Zuckerberg and tech leadership to address young Americans' growing disconnection, saying he would be the last to advocate socialism.

It's not just zoning. It's continuous warfare against the working class by outsourcing to China and insourcing illegals to drive down wages further. And laws that unfairly benefit owners, like Prop 13 and the mortgage interest deduction, both of which simply make houses more expensive.