patrick.net

DeficitHawk says

I think he did not receive due process. As I understand, he was rounded up and deported without a deportation order from a judge.

I share your concern about a powerful federal government that could arrest and deport anyone without judicial review.

In this particular case I understand the courts already determined him to be an illegal alien. In your opinion, what else would have been necessary for his deportation to be legal?

DeficitHawk says

MolotovCocktail says

By El Salvador, not us. Just because ES no longer fucks around with THEIR criminals anymore doesn't translate into the US government imprisoning them.

Oh come on. This is a BS argument. WE are in a contract with el salvador where we pay them to incarcerate the people we bring them. Are you seriously going to act like the us administration didnt want the people we brought them incarcerated and intentionally arrange for that outcome?

That's not true. The US may treat countries (monetarily) better who take their own citizens back as they should, but they can do with their citizens whatever they want as long as they don't ship em back. Not a US or constitutional problem at all.

DeficitHawk says

The topic of concern here is whether this person should get due process before being deported/incarcerated.

He got the process he was due.

Glad to see you're still around.

Do you really think a gang affiliated illegal alien should be allowed to stay in the USA?

DeficitHawk says

I want due process so that when they come for me, at least there is a judge who will hear my case instead of direct shipment to the gulag with no hearing.

Me too.
I found it abhorrent when peaceful J6 protesters were incarcerated without due process just after a summer of violent riots where vandals who destroyed personal and government property were not even arrested.

DeficitHawk says

they rule with a deportation order.

Maryland man had a deportation order.

Otherwise he would not have been deported.

Onvacation says

DeficitHawk says

I want due process so that when they come for me, at least there is a judge who will hear my case instead of direct shipment to the gulag with no hearing.

Me too.
I found it abhorrent when peaceful J6 protesters were incarcerated without due process just after a summer of violent riots where vandals who destroyed personal and government property were not even arrested.

This was my initial response as well. If you're so concerned about due process, where is the outrage for the hundreds of FBI entrapped J6 victims Crocodile tears for woman beating drug messicans, but no sympathy for your own countrymen, and no concern for how Ashley Babbit was murdered by being shot in the back. Your selective and specious arguments have no credibility with me.

yawaraf says

DeficitHawk says

I think he did not receive due process. As I understand, he was rounded up and deported without a deportation order from a judge.

I share your concern about a powerful federal government that could arrest and deport anyone without judicial review.

In this particular case I understand the courts already determined him to be an illegal alien. In your opinion, what else would have been necessary for his deportation to be legal?

A court order to deport.

Onvacation says

Maryland man had a deportation order.

No, he didnt.

stereotomy says

where is the outrage for the hundreds of FBI entrapped J6 victims

Ah of course. Here is the whataboutism.

So, lets say there was a breakdown of due process in some prior case that you care deeply about. In your mind, does that mean that we should advocate to keep depriving more people of due process out of vengeance? Or does it mean we should correct the problems that failed to deliver due process?

There are many people working their way through the criminal justice system for all sorts of crimes. I can only imagine that our system is not perfect. some people probably wait too long for trial, and that goes against our right to a speedy trial. I don't contest that it has and probably will happen again. But I would not use that as a justification to do it intentionally!

These problems should be corrected. Not celebrated. It seems like you want to point to some past case where you think there was not due process, and turn that into a reason why we should intentionally deprive someone else!

If you were robbed, does it give you the right to rob others? Is that justice? I just don't understand the logic of these whataboutisms.

If you are after vengeance for your perceived slights, and will abandon our constitution to get it, that's a position I cant sympathize with.

DeficitHawk says

I just want people to get a chance to stand in front of a judge and get a judges order before the administration carries out a deportation/incarceration.

Why? It's not hard to provide a birth certificate. Everyone gets one or can call the hospital and get a duplicate. That was his due process. Or have records of gaining citizenship. He clearly had neither. The left needs to move on from this. Digging a hole with no ladder is what you're doing.

You don't get due process if you're not a legal citizen. He went to court and could not prove citizenship. Was in a violent gang. Even if wrong he's got to go. Sorry. Don't do illegal shit like beat a woman. I'd send ass holes like that who are US citizens to El Salvador without due process. Fuck 'em.

Whattabout murder?
Whattabout violations of Habeas corpus not seen since the 1860's?

Is that the only defense? - "I don't care or acknowledge this because it doesn't futher my narrative?"

Yes complain you're being dismissed while dismissing all contrary views.

Pfft.

WookieMan says

It's not hard to provide a birth certificate.

Its not hard, i agree. The point is I dont want the arresting officer, or whomever is in charge of enforcement of the law to ALSO be the decider of guilt and the decider of the sentence. That should be done by a judge. That is the due process that SHOULD have happened.

None of this is hard at all. Go to the judge, make the case, get a decision, follow the decision. Not hard.

WookieMan says

You don't get due process if you're not a legal citizen

You keep saying this, but you are wrong. What you are saying is untrue. Ive cited the supreme court decisions, and quoted the relevant text from them. Dont read them if you dont want to... but it wont change the fact.

Due process IS afforded to non citizens, even if illegal. Only exceptions are around people in the process of entry, "Arriving" immigrants can be turned away without due process.

This individual had been here many years. He was not "arriving"... he was "already here". He IS entitled due process, and the supreme court has ruled so in many cases!

Please stop repeating a falsehood!!

stereotomy says

Whattabout murder?

This is a thread called "Maryland man".

I really can not keep up with 100 random people's whattaboutisms on the various topics they each individually care about. If you want to discuss with me here, discuss the topic at hand.

If you want to discuss a different topic, go make a thread about it.

DeficitHawk says

This individual had been here many years. He was not "arriving"... he was "already here". He IS entitled due process, and the supreme court has ruled so in many cases!

He had been in front of judges before. Not sure your point. Gang member, spouse beater and probably more. I don't want him here. Do you? He wasn't here legally. I don't care what some lower court judge said. If I go to France and get caught punching a woman, what do you think is going to happen if I'm not a citizen? Goodbye. That's how every country does it.

Question. Honest answer please. You think this guy was good for American society? He wasn't a citizen. Move on from it dude.

DeficitHawk says

I really can not keep up with 100 random people's whattaboutisms on the various topics they each individually care about.

Boo hoo - I whattabout people who start the whole whattabout shit. Don't like the shoe on the other foot? How quaint and entirely predictable of you.

DeficitHawk says

Oh come on. This is a BS argument. WE are in a contract with el salvador where we pay them to incarcerate the people we bring them. Are you seriously going to act like the us administration didnt want the people we brought them incarcerated and intentionally arrange for that outcome?

Who cares? It all falls under FOREIGN POLICY - which no judge has any authority on, period.

.

DeficitHawk says

Due process IS afforded to non citizens,

Deportation is an administrative procedure, not a criminal one. The level of due process deportees get is a lot less as a result.

DeficitHawk says

Im anti woke and anti dei.

As for keeping your own money... well, my user name is deficit hawk.... I think we need to balance our taxes against our expenditures to be fiscally responsible.. so we cant keep all of our own money without running up the deficit, which I oppose.

Sure you are.

Unfortunately, DeficitHawk is correct on the current due process rules. Unless an illegal was issued an Expedited Removal Order by Customs and Border Protection officers at the border, airports and other ports of entry while trying to enter the US without the proper documentation or who lied or used fraudulent documents when trying to enter the US, the illegal has to go before a judge. The left pushes this not because of any love for due process or fear of loss of civil liberties, they love it because it provides an effective bottleneck on removing the millions of illegals that Biden allowed to cross and even illegally flew in. Putting these millions or illegals before a judge means that most will die of old age before any court date. Even those relative few who will hit a court date and get a deportation order can delay through appeals. Biden's handlers effectively sold out the country by flooding us with unvetted millions in order build a Dem vote base. These illegals were not even required to get the vaxx as was required by anyone entering the country legally.

The best thing Trump can do is seal the border. Next is encourage the illegals to self deport. Start by removing any public assistance whatsoever to illegals. No driver's licenses or permits of any kind. Then a serious fine for anyone hiring an illegal. Also need voter ID and laws against non-citizens voting. Increase the number of immigrations judges and expedite the deportation orders, starting with illegals who commit further crimes after entering the country.

We on Patrick.net call them illegals because that is what they are. However, in legalese the majority are in the country legally by claiming that they are seeking asylum. The illegals have been thoroughly coached by the Biden administration, NGOs and church groups.

They have been embedded into systems that are paid for by the taxpayers. Those that wanna work do, while also getting the benefits of a 1st world nation.

Most vacation back to the countries they are supposedly persecuted in.

The whole situation is a complete farce and a massive fraud upon the US citizens.

I support Trump in his endeavors to rectify this FRAUD.

HeadSet says

Unfortunately, DeficitHawk is correct on the current due process rules. Unless an illegal was issued an Expedited Removal Order by Customs and Border Protection officers at the border, airports and other ports of entry while trying to enter the US without the proper documentation or who lied or used fraudulent documents when trying to enter the US, the illegal has to go before a judge.

Then explain how tens of millions of illegals were deported by Clinton, Bush and Obama.

Misc says

They have been embedded into systems that are paid for by the taxpayers. Those that wanna work do, while also getting the benefits of a 1st world nation.

Most vacation back to the countries they are supposedly persecuted in.

Bingo. I pay for it. I'm sure most here do as well I think. Nothing about race or anything. When a US citizen has to get notarized documents to bring a family member in and out of the country that has a different skin color than me, illegals can get fucked. I don't get due process.

We get accused of trafficking my nephew domestically and internationally. It's a pain in the ass since my SIL is a dip shit. We have to drive an hour round trip to get notarized documents because she can't drive and mail it. We need the address of the hotel and the dates. So I have to draft a document anytime we travel with him. Where the hell is my due process and why the profiling of a white family with a black kid. Get fucked.

You're here illegally. Get the fuck out. I was handed a situation I didn't want but would do it for any of my nephews or nieces. I don't beat my wife. I'm sorry, but you won't get any sympathy about due process from me. Kick their asses out. If they made an accident, file forms and do what you have to and get back to the US. Prove you're a legal citizen. If you can't goodbye.

Misc says

However, in legalese the majority are in the country legally by claiming that they are seeking asylum

Many are.

Asylum is not a constitutional right. Its a law that was passed by congress because people wanted it that way. YOU may not like that we have asylum laws, but we do have them.

IF congress wants to change the laws, they can change it. But as long as the laws are what they are, we should follow them.

Do you think the administration should not follow laws it does not like?

Edit: Actually I should correct myself... Congress can change the asylum laws, but asylum is part of the UN conventions that we are signatories of... so whatever they change the laws to would still need to comply with UN conventions. Of course we can withdraw from the UN conventions if we want to. (I dont want to.)

WookieMan says

Honest answer please. You think this guy was good for American society? He wasn't a citizen. Move on from it dude.

I want immigration standards that exclude immigrants who have committed crimes either in our country or their home country. It is our right to do so and I agree with it.

And I think we should follow the laws we have, and follow due process to enforce them.

DeficitHawk says

Do you think the administration should not follow laws it does not like?

We have long passed from being a nation of laws. There has been a huge fraud committed against the people of the US. Most of these Millions upon millions of asylum requests are bogus. The court dates to finalize the seekers status are literally 10 years into the future. The previous administration did that knowingly and wittingly. The only way to keep this nation from turning into a shithole country like the illegals came from is to persecute them. Better the ones that are here illegally and for bogus reasons than subjecting the citizens of the US to the shit the migrants bring with them. If it takes putting a few 100k of them into a prison in El Salvador to get the rest to self-deport and for others not to come. I am for it.

@Patrick this thread disappeared from my list view after I pushed some key combo while viewing/commenting on it. I can still interact if I find a link/comment to this thread but am curious how it vanished from the Thread overview (main view).

Good argument by constitutional scholar for an invasion, hence habeas corpus is not applicable here: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/squatter-syndrome-how-inefficiencies-our-legal-system-are-making-mockery-our-immigration

@mell

The author of the thread, AmericanKulak, is on your ignore list. To unignore him, click your own icon, then "edit profile" in upper right, then at the bottom of that edit profile page, under "ignored users", click his name.

Justice for illegals is deportation.

Justice for Americans is deportation of illegals.

It is that simple.

Let’s not cry about due process. Let cry about the fact there are STILL way too many illegal aliens in this country. We need justice, now!

PeopleUnited says

Let’s not cry about due process.

So just accept that the ends justify the means? Do you agree to give this power to an administration you DONT support?

Don't be to quick to compromise your rights.

The power to instantly deport illegals? Yes.

DeficitHawk says

PeopleUnited says

Let’s not cry about due process.

So just accept that the ends justify the means? Do you agree to give this power to an administration you DONT support?

Don't be to quick to compromise your rights.

We're not in favor of giving up our rights, Just those rights granted to the illegals that were obtained fraudulently.

Patrick says

The power to instantly deport illegals? Yes.

The power declare someone 'illegal', and incarcerate them in a foreign gulag where they can not have the opportunity to contest their classification as illegal..

There is rarely any reasonable doubt as to whether a criminal alien is indeed a criminal alien.

If you were born here, you have a birth certificate and maybe a passport, a long paper and digital history as an American, and you speak English like an American.

Misc says

We're not in favor of giving up our rights, Just those rights granted to the illegals that were obtained fraudulently.

I get it. You don't think immigrants should have due process. I think they should. We dont agree.

I doubt i will convince you to agree with me. The supreme court agrees with me. I'll have to accept that as a consolation prize.

Patrick says

There is rarely any reasonable doubt as to whether a criminal alien is indeed a criminal alien.

If you were born here, you have a birth certificate and maybe a passport, a long paper and digital history as an American, and you speak like an American.

The whole point of having due process in our constitution is that we don't always trust the motives and diligence of the people doing the enforcement.. Due process is simply to have an outside party check the facts, and compare them to our laws. As you say, the facts themselves are typically not hard verify.

The constitution is meant to allow us to live with some reasonable confidence that our rights will be respected no matter if we trust the administration or not.

I don't trust the motives of the people complaining.

The goal of far-left extremists' newfound love of "due process" is:

- to get more far-left Congressional representation because the census counts criminal aliens in allocating representatives
- to get more illegal votes from criminal aliens, as proven by the shrill resistance to even basic citizenship checks on voters
- to keep fucking American workers by making them compete with the 3rd world for jobs on American soil

Patrick says

I don't trust the motives of the people complaining.

You don't have to trust my motives. You just have to comply with the laws and the constitution. Its why we have them.