patrick.net

Quigley says

People like spydah want us to return to the bad old days of 1890-1910 when work days were 12-14 hours, pay was so small that both parents and their children had to work to keep the family fed, conditions were absolutely squalid, and the rich robber barons ran the country with an iron fist.

Theodore Roosevelt began the change by standing up to the rich bullies like Rockefeller. That age was only gilded for the wealthy super minority.

Yeah right I do... Since i am you know rich and all and control you peons.... *rollseyes*

Quigley says

Now, due to their social nets being wider and deeper, blue states also have much higher numbers of the poor they must feed and house and provide medical care for.

Apparently you've never lived in some of these red states. I'm originally from one of them. The poor in places like this aren't fewer...just ignored. On the contrary, they are more numerous per capita. Ever been to Louisiana or Alabama?

foxmannumber1 says

There is no evidence to suggest that the intelligence gap between Whites and blacks is not genetic. Publicly claiming this will ruin your career though, which is why some call it contentious.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2013/09/22/wide-racial-gap-persists-in-testing.html

So post up the research that proves that blacks have less innate intellectual ability than whites as a consequence of genetics.

Your initial question is dishonest.

Your question should read 'hypothetical' circumstance. There is no proof that a such street exists in the real world.

I addressed your hypothetical question in this post:

http://patrick.net/?p=1230637&c=1013820#comment-1013820

The short answer is it's not worth the personal and financial cost for a White to interact with any black.

The only fear I have of blacks is being a victim of their violent crime. Blacks are far more likely to commit violence overall, and far more likely to commit violence against Whites than Whites are to commit violence against blacks.
This suggests that blacks are targeting Whites for their violent crimes because they are White.

1. No, I would not move to this fictional street with those black professors because the risk/reward ratio is not in my favor. Even well to do blacks commit a disproportionate amount of crime.

2. Skin color is the primary indicator of race and race is the primary indicator of intelligence. If in some bizarro reversed world where the races were reversed, I would be against the less intelligent whites.

foxmannumber1 says

Q tests are repeatable and predictable across all socioeconomic spectrums. Poor whites outperform rich blacks all the time. IQ tests are the best test for intelligence that we currently have.

Whole lot of ignorance going on in this post. The smartest guy in my all male high school was an African American, even more than the rich white guys that went to Yale and Brown in our class. He ran circles around the rest of us intellectually. Got a full ride scholarship to Johns Hopkins in Biomedical Engineering, even though his parents were well off. Today, an orthopedic surgeon. He could have gone anywhere, independent of his race.

The year before, our all state QB (African American) got a full ride at Harvard and his parents were poor. He is now a high powered attorney. The year before, another African American went to Stanford and was the general counsel of an NBA team.

You don't get into those schools if you aren't smart, even with affirmative action.

It's all about environment.

Anecdotal evidence is worthless.

No one is saying all of those that are predominately sub saharan African are unintelligent. Just the vast majority of them.

I would also say that the products of miscegenation are more intelligent than the sub Saharan African parent.

and your IQ is 4
foxmannumber1 says

I judge people by their intelligence. Intelligence is the single most desirable trait in the modern world.

Asians have an average IQ if 107. Whites have an average IQ of 100. Hispanics/latinos/mestizos have an average IQ of 90. American blacks have an average IQ 85. Purebred sub saharan africans have an average IQ of 70. These numbers are genetic and unchangeable by 'nurture'.

There is no benefit for a more intelligent person to associate with a less intelligent person. There is benefit for a less intelligent person to associate with a more intelligent person. These 2 facts create conflict when the more intelligent attempt to avoid the less intelligent.

foxmannumber1 says

Anecdotal evidence is worthless.

Good one! So is your race-based hypothesis. Take two kids, one Caucasian and one African American, and make one rich and the other poor. The rich kids nearly always outperform the poor.

Your eugenics argument was used by many, including the Nazis and has debunked over and over again by science.

It's proven that poor whites and Asians outperform rich blacks in intelligence tests.

I agree than a good intelligence test score is not a guarantee of good life performance though.

foxmannumber1 says

No one is saying all of those that are predominately sub saharan African are unintelligent. Just the vast majority of them.

My wife is from Europe. The greatest percentage of immigrants gaining entrance into med school where she lived were from...sub Saharan Africa.

You take people from one background, put them in a certain environment, and they excel, while others in the opposite fail.

Didn't you ever see Trading Places?

Europe, huh? That's like talking about North America in some general way: worthless.

spydah_hh says

I am not speaking of QE capital.

Huh? There is no distinction between "QE" capital and non-"QE" capital. That makes no sense.

spydah_hh says

But as I said previously capital does promote job grow but the problem is it's not promoting the right economic growth. What we have now is a promotion of asset inflation, thanks to once again QE and low interest rates.

Again--that makes no sense. With low interest rates, capital should flow toward productive opportunities and fund new businesses. The fact that it isn't happening proves that those opportunities don't exist. And that's because consumers have no money, and therefore no demand.

spydah_hh says

And yes Unions affect prices because they rise cost among workers who have not increased any value to businesses or organization

The market sets prices. Cost is independent of price.

spydah_hh says

But in reality it's the market that sets the price as employees and employees negotiate salaries, benefits, and what not. Not the damn unions who will literally hold a company or organization hostage if they don't get their way.

So, negotiating wages is OK as long as the company has the upper hand?? When employees band together to try to even the playing field, that's holding an organization "hostage"?? Givem me a break.

spydah_hh says

But even when they arrived during the progressive era economic growth was still strong but the difference then was the central bank was created in 1913 and after that things just began going down hill as purchasing power became less and less as the years and decades went by.

Real wages increased steadily until the Reagan--when labor took a back seat to capital and the supply side BS began.spydah_hh says

You have the idea that money needs to go to labor, job growth and etc but you have it all wrong. The real culprit is the central bank, government, and the demanding of unions who will shutdown operations if they don't get their way.

The biggest issues are wealth disparity and the trade imbalance. Fix those and things would look up pretty quickly. Blaming unions is a ridiculous assertion brought to you by the Koch Bros. (among others). Strong unions are exactly what we need right now.

People say Jewish and Asian people are very smart and have high IQs. That's BS. I can show you slackers in both groups that dispel this notion.

Each group places a high amount of emphasis on education and working hard. It's culturally ingrained, which is environmental, not genetic.

Ironically, foxmannumber1 illustrates why so many red-state people want to secede. It's been over 150 years since the Civil War and the slave states are still obsessed with race. One and a half centuries and America is still divided along the same damn lines.

Same damn map.

You can show more anecdotal evidence while ignoring the other 99.9% of the population.

Dan8267 says

Ironically, foxmannumber1 illustrates why so many red-state people want to secede. It's been over 150 years since the Civil War and the slave states are still obsessed with race. One and a half centuries and America is still divided along the same damn lines.

All those southern red states are 30-40% black as well, who vote democrat 99% of the time.
It's as if Whites living around blacks makes the Whites conservative.

foxmannumber1 says

Europe, huh? That's like talking about North America in some general way: worthless.

No, it isn't at all. Europe is much better equipped to offer educational opportunities to the poor than the US. I had this discussion last night at the bar with my friends from Spain.

When you get nearly a free education at universities in Spain vs paying $100K over 4 years here, that comparison isn't worthless. It is environmental.

As a percentage, the average immigrant has a much higher percentage likelihood of getting a college degree in Spain or Germany than the US.

Dan8267 says

Who generated the electoral map? Rootvg?

foxmannumber1 says

You can show more anecdotal evidence while ignoring the other 99.9% of the population.

My anecdotal evidence is better than any legitimate study that you can offer (which you can't because you would be laughed off stage at an academic conference).

Obligatory:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/VYy77IGsBFc

The average immigrant does not go to college at all. More anecdotal evidence. Those immigrants who do go to college drop out at a rate higher than the White native.

A current citizen, not the immigrant, is paying for that education attempt. It is not free.

Money in education causes the potential student to be discriminated against due to their intelligence. They will only get the education if they show merit, making it financially worthwhile to even attempt.

Waitingtobuy says

My anecdotal evidence is better than any legitimate study that you can offer (which you can't because you would be laughed off stage at an academic conference).

http://www.youtube.com/embed/GA0XLxG2o2E

Rushton stood proud and delivered his well researched facts. Suzuki used emotion and produced no logical argument.

All you need to know about that "professor" is in this article:
http://www.salon.com/2012/10/06/leading_race_scientist_dies_in_canada/

Intelligence and genital size are inversely correlated.

Brilliant!

foxmannumber1 says

The average immigrant does not go to college at all. More anecdotal evidence. Those immigrants who do go to college drop out at a rate higher than the White native.

A current citizen, not the immigrant, is paying for that education attempt. It is not free.

Money in education causes the potential student to be discriminated against due to their intelligence. They will only get the education if they show merit, making it financially worthwhile to even attempt.

California State University is about $5500 per year plus books and parking. JC is less. A person who is disciplined can graduate with 4 year degree in a major that allows them to be easily employed and student loans that amount to less than a car payment.

The argument that college is free in European countries is disingenous, irrelevant, and a non starter.

foxmannumber1 says

Waitingtobuy says

My anecdotal evidence is better than any legitimate study that you can offer (which you can't because you would be laughed off stage at an academic conference).

Rushton stood proud and delivered his well researched facts. Suzuki used emotion and produced no logical argument.

Rushton is 99.99% correct and he's not the only one who has published his research on this subject.

the 0.01% is his theory on the root cause of the differences in IQ. it's not the cold weather. Africa is a much tougher environment to live compared to Asia and Europe (namely the lack of water, fertile land and disease free areas) that it makes the cold weather a minor issue.

btw, Suzuki only said that to look good and to promote his status among academic communities. deep down he knows what the truth is. same with other black defenders in this thread.

IQ is a really dumb way to evaluate people.

The reason is I make this conclusion is that I've dabbled in Artificial Intelligence "science" for a while, sometimes in industry.

Initially when Man tried to build artificial intelligence he failed miserably. Part of this was the computers of the time, but the other part was the approach.

The pioneers (McCarthy, Minsky) thought of intelligence as classical first order logic. A brain that takes in inputs, makes judgments using if-then rules and spits out an answer. The other area was language. It was thought if we figured out the rules of grammar (Chomsky) and had a robust enough programming language, getting a computer to understand language would be a piece of cake.

50 years later we are still working on these problems. However, since then we've completely changed our approaches. For one, we no longer use the "singular mind". We realized that the brain and society use lots of "dumb" units to problem solve, much of it through trail-and-error rather than some singular genius figuring it out. In Watson for example, multiple and varied search strategies compete to find an answer and use a kind of natural selection to pick the best. We now have NPUs -- neural processing units that compare to the millions of perceptual cells that go into the processes like vision, which is as far from first order logic as you can imagine.

One scientist, Dennis Bray, wrote a fascinating book, Wetware which describes the intricacies of protein actions within a cell. So complicated are these, he writes, that they exceed the complexity of computations and our abilities to mimic or model them!

All of this is to say that any human, simply alive, even one with Down Syndrome, who is able to walk, see a bird in the sky, or communicate...is doing things that are beyond the capabilities still of the fastest most power artificial intelligence systems. Just walking and avoiding a puddle is fantastically complex. And even if we were to mimic some of these processes...as someone once said, the human brain weighs a few pounds and has 1000x time processing powers of a best computer, and all it takes to run it is a tuna fish sandwich!

Waitingtobuy says

People say Jewish and Asian people are very smart and have high IQs. That's BS. I can show you slackers in both groups that dispel this notion.

Each group places a high amount of emphasis on education and working hard. It's culturally ingrained, which is environmental, not genetic.

pointing out the exceptions do not make the rules invalid.

also, if blacks possess the same level of intelligence as the rest of the world then they must be the laziest group. so which is it? lazy or stupid? you will need to pick one. and if it's lazy, why should they get hired?

John Bailo says

IQ is a really dumb way to evaluate people.

people do that everyday.

everyone wants to live in white middle class neighborhood (where intelligent people live). nobody wants to live in the ghettos.

to black defenders in this thread: i CHALLENGE you to move out of your white neighborhood.

John Bailo says

Mark D says

people do that everyday.

Based on this reply, you've just positioned yourself squarely on the low end of any scale of reading comprehension.

I suggest remedial education before ever posting any of your drivel again.

not my fault you are too dumb to comprehend what i wrote.

Bailo that is the best post you've ever done! Yes, the human mind and life itself is fantastically complicated, horrendously intricate, and irreducibly complex. Life is the most sophisticated sort of nano machinery, stuff we wouldn't be ready to build for thousands of years. If there's a single force in the universe that could beat back the tide of entropy it is life.

LOL @ dislike for me pointing out that tuition at JC for 2 years + 2 years at CSU is less than $15K, all of which can be borrowed and in sum total is less than the cost of a car loan.

egads101 says

The oracle is not white

That's what George Zimmerman said!

Quigley says

People like spydah want us to return to the bad old days of 1890-1910 when work days were 12-14 hours, pay was so small that both parents and their children had to work to keep the family fed, conditions were absolutely squalid, and the rich robber barons ran the country with an iron fist.

why would that be any different from what we had even in places like Silicon valley over several decades.. how many back in the days of 80s and 90s during the boom people were in fact working 12-14 days 6 and sometimes 7 days a week over some endless projects or young company ?

I can certainly say working over the past 3 decades in SV working 8 hours 5 days is rather unheard of. Its a real sacrifice over your personal life. that is why tech and SV is not for everyone..

egads101 says

GRE's 99% verbal, 97% analytical, 75% math subject, enough to win a national science foundation graduate fellowship to UC Berkeley.

sad.. and all you have to show is being a landlord. UCB.. please i known with only a HS diploma achieving better.. what a waste of money Roberto spent.

tatupu70 says

Real wages increased steadily until the Reagan--when labor took a back seat to capital and the supply side BS began.spydah_hh says

Had it been Reagan or Carter being re-elected made no difference.. our industries as well as other nations be they in Europe, Latin America and Asia were being challenged and dominated by the Japanese economy. They became the fastest growing no 2 economy ... be it raw materials, auto, shipping/transport, tech, electronics, banking/finance. Japan had a impact which Unions were unable and to this day... unwilling to deal with.

Wow, Foxmannumber1 HAS to be a Poe, right?

thomaswong.1986 says

why would that be any different from what we had even in places like Silicon valley over several decades.. how many back in the days of 80s and 90s during the boom people were in fact working 12-14 days 6 and sometimes 7 days a week over some endless projects or young company ?

I can certainly say working over the past 3 decades in SV working 8 hours 5 days is rather unheard of. Its a real sacrifice over your personal life. that is why tech and SV is not for everyone..

For you to even make an analogy between working long hours at a start-up and the working conditions of the of the late 1800s/early 1900s is beyond ridiculous. Even you can't be serious.

egads101 says

and my college was 100% paid for by the national science foundation, even my living expenses

I paid my own way.. 100% no loans no handouts not ... I got a job and worked for it.

seems the National Science Foundation really wasted money over you creating another landlord.

tatupu70 says

For you to even make an analogy between working long hours at a start-up and the working conditions of the of the late 1800s/early 1900s is beyond ridiculous. Even you can't be serious.

who is talking about a start up ? .. im talking about a very mature company.. you will find in many business through out our nations be it the local small business its the same .. long hours.. your own business is your life.. it might be a small pet store, a convenience store , what ever what you call yours.

1800s cry me a river!!! Your the kind to find all kinds of obstructions to stop this nation from having a booming economy..