patrick.net

ThreeBays says

Dang $1500/mo, that's expensive. Not some $400/mo plan people are complaining about being double what they paid before.

That's probably 2 adults and one or more kids, and just $918 a month in take-home pay if you paid it all yourself (28/9.3 federal and state rates, 1.45% Medicare, no FICA or SDI)

$306/3 = $313 a person which is less than the $400/month people are complaining about on individual plans.

If you're not hitting the FICA and SDI wage caps it'd be $810/month and just $270 a person.

thomaswong.1986 says

"During the campaign, Kennedy charged that under Eisenhower and the Republicans the nation had fallen behind the Soviet Union in the Cold War, both militarily and economically, and that as president he would "get America moving again."

It's MORNING IN AMERICA again!

Wait that was another President.

I'm not sure why our usual bunker crowd would care much about this revelation. Kennedy was a Democrat after all, and pinning it on another Democrat is of course satisfying but ultimately as long as he's dead..... who cares?

ThreeBays says

drew_eckhardt says

$940/3 = $313 a person which is less than the $400/month people are complaining about on individual plans.

The $400 complaint was for a family I believe.

Pre-ACA young people were getting $80 policies and family plans were about 3X one adult so that remains a valid complaint.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/gsMKMMlleOE

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

An oligarch buys the very last business in the world and disbands the last union and sends the last job to the Chinese gulag and then everyone in America volunteers to suck him off for the chance to wash his car for a tip or a piece of cheese.

Then everyone eats each others' faces.

Basic Adam Smith.

That's all correct.

I got to say you're a smart cookie.

one and two are the same thing.

the third answer is people like Homeboy hitting submit about ten times. There's no damn 24% of any group left in this country that has anything positive to say about Obamacrap but Libots.

Too early to tell for the program.
The act of signing up for it definitely does not emote confidence.
The lies told to get it through the legislature definitely does not emote confidence.
But the program itself?? Too early to tell...

No, because I never had any faith to begin with. It was a disaster, congress didnt even read it before they voted on it. It will be a disaster. It was designed to be a disaster. It will likely destroy what is left that was working in healthcare and its failure will bring about Barry's ultimate goal, total state/federal run medicine.

ThreeBays says

Obamacare haters should know full well Obamacare is Romneycare. It's Republican Care. Do some research... ACA is the plan republicans have wanted for decades, and Romney implemented in Massachusetts with individual mandate and all. The only reason Repubs hate it now is because it was signed by Obama.

I agree that people are completely uneducated about Obamacare. As an independent, I'm actually in favor of this type of health insurance implementation because it fosters more competition across the private insurance companies, and we have to get everyone with at least catastrophic coverage in order to ultimately spread costs more evenly and bring costs down for everyone.

No, because as someone else said- it JUST started. Secondly, the latest little trick the right-wingers are playing is spreading the half-truth that MILLION are losing their insurance when in fact, all that's happening is that about 5% of the population on private plans are on plans that lack the basic requirement of the ACA. So as such, they are then able to sign back up and in turn get plans that are actually better, and in most cases at the same cost or cheaper.

Either way, I assume the GOP and their eager, faithful followers will keep right on spending every waking minute wasting it on trying to defeat a law that is already in action.... and they'll do so right up to the 2016 elections where they will lose as a result.

What the libtards are missing is that people are naturally going to be hesitant to enter all their personal info into a website that's famous for being craptacular.

Homeboy says

Waaaahhhh! Obamacare deductibles are too high.

Wow, you guys can't even agree on what you hate about Obamacare. You're making the exact OPPOSITE points. You couldn't MAKE this stuff up. LOL.

I'm giving my honest opinions.

I'm in favor of single - payer, not more Public-Private Cooperation Taxpayer Funded Bullshit that fixes nothing except bonuses for Insurance Company Executives.

$5000-$10000 deductibles are ludicrous.

As I explained above, the reluctance of people to get testing is not helped by massive deductibles, which represent anywhere from 20-33% of their entire yearly income. Because the median household makes $38k, a $5000-$10000 deductible does not do much about the "Wait until you can't stand it any more, then go to the ER problem". To say nothing about 40-50% drug copays.

That is Walmart Grade, "Look, we provide Insurance, really we do" type insurance.

Who gives a crap about Romney Care? We need the NHS.

What wingers are missing is that people aren't being hesitant at all, but that indeed the current system has bugs, and a lot of that is from the overwhelming amount of traffic from people trying to sign up.

If the Constitution forbids slavery or any other essential component of liberty, then the Constitution is unconstitutional!

edvard2 says

What wingers are missing is that people aren't being hesitant at all, but that indeed the current system has bugs, and a lot of that is from the overwhelming amount of traffic from people trying to sign up.

It's chief primary operating function right now, is to defer people to Medicare. The actual potential insurance buyers are avoiding it like a Wafflehouse on MLK blvd.

edvard2 says

nd a lot of that is from the overwhelming amount of traffic from people trying to sign up.

That is not true- the site just doesn't work. and they paid $650 million for it.
Whether you like Obama care or not this type of "glitch" is not acceptable. Obama said it was like Apple.
Imagine if people couldn't use their iphones or ipads for a month and the CEOof apple kept saying "Apple is more than an iphone, its a good product".

edvard2 says

What wingers are missing is that people aren't being hesitant at all,

If you are mandated, better not hesitate!

thunderlips11 says

not more Public-Private Cooperation Taxpayer Funded Bullshit that fixes nothing except bonuses for Insurance Company Executives.

We needed dramatic reform of a broken system.
We got Obama care.
By some estimates, at least a third — and perhaps as much as half — of all the money spent on health care in the United States is wasted, and all we are doing is arguing about who should pay for this waste.
And fund the average CEO salary of 11 million bucks.

Taxes are due on April 15 every year. If only 1% of people who owe, have paid their taxes by Feb. 2, does that mean that the IRS is a failure and that taxes will never be paid?

smaulgld says

That is not true- the site just doesn't work. and they paid $650 million for it.

Whether you like Obama care or not this type of "glitch" is not acceptable.

A story was on the morning news today about how that in the case of Massachusetts's own healthcare plan, which Obamacare was heavily modeled after, it too had a lot of technical glitches when it started. Besides- that has nothing to do with trust and people's hesitancy to sign up.

Hard to lose faith in something that I never did have faith in. In many ways it's even a bigger disaster than expected and anticipated. A bad program shoved down our throats by an idiot president.

"...not in actuality vote for anything that would legalize human slavery."

I can't believe he would insult The Confederate States of America.

Why do we need to repeal the 13th and 14th amendment when we have mortgages? After all Debt is Slavery!

And graduate school. Postdocs too.

Just more liberal hogwash, taking things out of context...

Jim Wheeler, a Republican from Gardnerville, was talking to a crowd of Storey County Republicans in August he when said “yeah I would” vote for white slavery if that’s what his black constituents wanted.

what goes around comes around...

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

Here's a case of Conservative who had it right, a Nevada assemblyman righteously committing himself to the restoration of the great American institution of slavery.

Debt is the "New Slavery" whereby the production of the slave may be siphoned off by "collections" and "fees" and actually increases over time! It's wonderful because 1) your slaves work harder than ever to try to afford their payments and also provide for their own basic needs.
2)they hardly ever run away
3)rather than trying to abolish this practice, new englanders are actually passing laws to make this new slavery even harder to escape!
4)if the slaves complain, you can always tell them that "it's their own fault" and feel totally righteous!

Quigley says

they hardly ever run away

Two words - Strategic Default!

Benghazicare is like slavery. Everyone in the Old Confederacy of Dixie Robert E. Lee Antebellum Noble Cause should have the right to inflict Benghazicare on all blacks they own.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

The Constitution guarantees us all the Freedom to enslave. Without that, Freedom would have no meaning!

Essentially, this is what Right to Work legislation is all about: weakening labor's bargaining position by making cooperation among laborers impossible and thereby lowering labor's wages to below living wages.

The politicians who propose "Right to Work" do so, not because they care about the worker, but because they want to screw over the worker.

zzyzzx says

Clinton seems to be the worst offender here

Clinton only signed NAFTA. Most of the other Free Trade Agreements were enacted under Bush II and Obama:

The United States-Australia Free Trade Agreement (FTA) entered into force on January 1, 2005.
The United States-Bahrain FTA, which entered into force on January 11, 2006.
On January 1, 1994, the North American Free Trade Agreement between the United States, Canada, and Mexico (NAFTA) entered into force.
The United States-Chile Free Trade Agreement (FTA) entered into force on January 1, 2004.
On August 5, 2004, the United States signed the Dominican Republic-Central America-United States Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA-DR) with five Central American countries (Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Nicaragua) and the Dominican Republic.
United States-Israel Free Trade Agreement, which was the first FTA entered into by the United States, in 1985
United States-Jordan Free Trade Agreement, which was fully implemented on January 1, 2010.
U.S.-Korea trade agreement on March 15, 2012
The United States and Morocco signed an FTA on June 15, 2004. The Agreement entered into force on January 1, 2006.
The United States-Oman FTA, which entered into force on January 1, 2009.
On December 14, 2007, the United States-Peru Trade Promotion Agreement Implementation Act became law, and the PTPA entered into force on February 1, 2009.
The United States-Singapore Free Trade Agreement has been in force since January 1, 2004.

"Obamacare, should be called Terriblecare. "

"I mean who creates such a fucked up healthcare system and then names it after them self?"

"Wasn't healthcare supposed to be affordable? I mean this is terrible, it should be called Terriblecare..."

This was what former Obama Okeydoke, (who voted for the lying bastard twice, because the news told him that Romney was going to destroy the jobs) told me last night. .

I then asked him, "you mean worse than how it is now?"

But Terriblecare, I liked it, I hope it sticks.

DIE!

"These plans should be called the “ Bankruptcy Plans”, since you risk bankruptcy due to the high level of co-insurance."
Now I've got to find how many have bankrupt on free market healthcare & insurance.

Benghazicare is such a vicious, Satanic, Hitlerian, Stalinist, Maoist, Kafkaesque nightmare of fear and loathing, that private alternatives will have no problem competing with it and offering cheaper plans.

DEATH PANELS!!!!!!!!!!!1111

egads101 says

clinton signed NAFTA, and we went on to suffer through multiple years of near full employment, exceptional growth and a balanced budget....

Because of a y2K scare and housing bubble.

finehoe says

Clinton only signed NAFTA. Most of the other Free Trade Agreements were enacted under Bush II and Obama:

And I was blaming all 3. But the original NAFTA one probably had a bigger impact. Only the one with Korea has the potential to come close.

Vicente says

who cares?

The only real relevancy today is to understand that the narrative provided to you by govt and media in this case is utter bullshit. You don't have to solve the half century old mystery.
Once you understand that they are always covering up something, if not always nefarious, spooky, conspiracy (Kennedys, MLK, Hastings) maybe just prior institutional knowledge (OK City, Boston) or ineptitude (Bengazi), you can at least not be a deluded partisan puppet like thomaswrong.
That is my goal anyway, to remind myself to be eternally and universally incredulous.

White people need to be slaves for the next 3000 years at least, as reparations to the whatever races they have enslaved in the past!

Since everything is white people's fault, it is the least they can do for the principles of justice.

If it weren't for slaves, our founding fathers could never have gotten boners in old age.

debyne says

You have no idea what you're talking about. Having the gov't pay for our care vs the private sector has nothing to do with fee for service. The private sector is already starting to make strides away from fee for service, so your argument makes no sense. The private sector will always ultimately find better, faster, cheaper solutions than the gov't will ever dream of doing.

Yes like our better, faster, cheaper health care? BTW Medicare is one of the primary sources of the push away from fee for service. Get your story straight.

Fee for service is THE problem no matter who pays for it. The whole point of single payer is to get rid of the huge cost of fee for service and the associated billing (not to mention all the costs of running insurance companies, collections, marketing, profits, executive salaries, lobbying, etc., etc.). That's how everyone else in the world manages much cheaper health care.

bob2356 says

Fee for service is THE problem no matter who pays for it. The whole point of single payer is to get rid of the huge cost of fee for service and the associated billing (not to mention all the costs of running insurance companies, collections, marketing, profits, executive salaries, lobbying, etc., etc.). That's how everyone else in the world manages much cheaper health care.

I agree that fee for service is a huge problem, but I don't agree in letting the government become the payer because of all the cost and inefficiencies associated with gov't and monopolies; medicare is a classic example of that. Now that Obamacare is creating a bigger marketplace for insurance companies to compete, you're going to see more and more innovative healthcare payer models that will drive costs down; it was lack of competition that stifled the creativity of the free market to solve it. I forget the name of the company, but they're in Seattle and they already have a model where you pay a monthly fee and get the care you need when needed with a focus on outcomes because the business model is motivated to get you better as efficiently and effectively as they can. We just haven't had a chance for it to take root, and I'm hoping Obamacare will foster that.

How did a Panamanian get to run for President?