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Why is it difficult for leftists to make points w/o attacking others?
invite response
2018 Mar 19, 8:38am 54,956 views 277 comments
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232
missing
2018 Mar 20, 7:24pm
drB6 says
1. I gave Eastern European countries as an example of relatively (to the US) poor countries, which they are. Income inequality, depending how is measured, is not much off.
2. Former Soviet Union? Which countries are you talking about apart from Russsia? A few are in EU, a few others have lower gun homocide rates, for a few there's no data, a few have/had civil wars. A lot of the gun violence in that region is also organized-crime related.
3. Yes, the US is unique in many ways, but one can look at the trend among many countries (not only between the US and country X):
http://ritholtz.com/2017/10/gun-ownership-vs-gun-deaths/
The correlation is clear. And yes, it is not perfect because other factors are in play. But why refuse to acknowledge and address the most obvious one?
FP saysdrB6 says<
In many poorer E. European countries murder rates are actually pretty high
Many? I'm pretty sure that all of the EU Eastern European countries has much lower rate than the US.
They have more homogeneous populations and in many (not most) cases less unequal income distributions. EU East European countries are not poor in grand scheme of things. Former Soviet Union has similar or higher murder rates than US of A, with Russia being worst.
1. I gave Eastern European countries as an example of relatively (to the US) poor countries, which they are. Income inequality, depending how is measured, is not much off.
2. Former Soviet Union? Which countries are you talking about apart from Russsia? A few are in EU, a few others have lower gun homocide rates, for a few there's no data, a few have/had civil wars. A lot of the gun violence in that region is also organized-crime related.
3. Yes, the US is unique in many ways, but one can look at the trend among many countries (not only between the US and country X):
http://ritholtz.com/2017/10/gun-ownership-vs-gun-deaths/
The correlation is clear. And yes, it is not perfect because other factors are in play. But why refuse to acknowledge and address the most obvious one?
234
marcus
2018 Mar 20, 9:32pm
marcus
2018 Mar 20, 9:32pm
CBOEtrader says
You have a truly wonderful understanding of Nazism and Hitler. I love your objectivity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism
The truth is that the Nazis didn't have an economic policy, and Hitler considered that a feature and not a bug. And yet the Nazis were ultimately corporatists. German corporatations had a lot of influence on Nazis, and not the other way around. He used the word socialist, but specifically said that it was nothing like marxist socialism.
You know this, but say what you say becasue of an apparent need to conflate progressives with Nazis, while simultaneously lecturing progressives on their tendencies toward name calling.
Wtf ?
Today's progressives would have been Nazi's FOR SURE. Group think idiocy always leads to tyranny.
You have a truly wonderful understanding of Nazism and Hitler. I love your objectivity.
Hitler's political beliefs drew heavily upon social Darwinism—the view that natural selection applies as much to human society as it does to biological organisms.[101] Hitler believed that history was shaped by a violent struggle between nations and races; and that a nation needed to be united under a strong, centralized state led by an heroic leader in order to succeed in this struggle and that individuals within a nation battled with each other for survival; and that such ruthless competition was good for the health of the nation because it promoted "superior individuals" to higher positions in society.[102]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism
The truth is that the Nazis didn't have an economic policy, and Hitler considered that a feature and not a bug. And yet the Nazis were ultimately corporatists. German corporatations had a lot of influence on Nazis, and not the other way around. He used the word socialist, but specifically said that it was nothing like marxist socialism.
You know this, but say what you say becasue of an apparent need to conflate progressives with Nazis, while simultaneously lecturing progressives on their tendencies toward name calling.
Wtf ?
235
marcus
2018 Mar 20, 9:37pm
marcus
2018 Mar 20, 9:37pm
IF anything progressives these days might be accused of celebrating diversity and are quite at peace with the imminent loss of white dominance in our culture.
Yes. That sounds just like Hitler. Is that the general idea behind what he was going for with his talk of the purity and superiority of the Aryan race ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race
Yes. That sounds just like Hitler. Is that the general idea behind what he was going for with his talk of the purity and superiority of the Aryan race ?
The ideology of Nazism was based upon the conception of the ancient Aryan race being a superior race, holding the highest position in the racial hierarchy and that the Germanic peoples were the most racially pure existing peoples of Aryan stock.[33] The Nazi conception of the Aryan race arose from earlier proponents of a supremacist conception of the race as described by racial theorist figures such as Arthur de Gobineau and Houston Stewart Chamberlain.[34]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race
236
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 20, 9:54pm
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 20, 9:54pm
marcus says
IF anything Nazis might be accused of celebrating Germans and are quite at peace with the imminent loss of Jewish dominance in our culture.
IF anything progressives these days might be accused of celebrating diversity and are quite at peace with the imminent loss of white dominance in our culture.
IF anything Nazis might be accused of celebrating Germans and are quite at peace with the imminent loss of Jewish dominance in our culture.
238
HappyGilmore
2018 Mar 21, 6:50am
CBOEtrader says
No problem. There is a HUGE difference and I'll detail it here for you.
Socialism is public or government ownership of means of production. Democratic Socialism is privately owned means of production.
It is apples and oranges.
Ok. Try to explain the difference between socialism, and the rebranded Democratic socialism. (There is none.)
No problem. There is a HUGE difference and I'll detail it here for you.
Socialism is public or government ownership of means of production. Democratic Socialism is privately owned means of production.
It is apples and oranges.
239
marcus
2018 Mar 21, 7:05am
marcus
2018 Mar 21, 7:05am
CBOEtrader says
Wait, what ?
marcus saysIF anything progressives these days might be accused of celebrating diversity and are quite at peace with the imminent loss of white dominance in our culture.
IF anything Nazis might be accused of celebrating Germans and are quite at peace with the imminent loss of Jewish dominance in our culture.
Wait, what ?
240
anonymous
2018 Mar 21, 8:10am
242
Bd6r
2018 Mar 21, 8:18am
Bd6r
2018 Mar 21, 8:18am
FP_ex says
I'd say that it should not be gun deaths, it should be gun murders. The correlation might look different. Furthermore, the fact that some idiots kill people while driving drunk or texting while driving does not mean that we should prohibit alcohol or cellphones.
Yes, the US is unique in many ways, but one can look at the trend among many countries (not only between the US and country X):
http://ritholtz.com/2017/10/gun-ownership-vs-gun-deaths/
The correlation is clear. And yes, it is not perfect because other factors are in play. But why refuse to acknowledge and address the most obvious one?
I'd say that it should not be gun deaths, it should be gun murders. The correlation might look different. Furthermore, the fact that some idiots kill people while driving drunk or texting while driving does not mean that we should prohibit alcohol or cellphones.
243
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 21, 9:01am
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 21, 9:01am
HappyGilmore says
Ah ok, so socialism is the failed real world approach. Democratic socialism is a dream that leftists have about "real socialism". Its the "I would never be like Mao if i were in charge" narcassistic fantasy.There is no functional difference. It's all forced collectivism at the barrel of a gun. Take wrong thinkers to the gulags
It is apples and oranges.
Ah ok, so socialism is the failed real world approach. Democratic socialism is a dream that leftists have about "real socialism". Its the "I would never be like Mao if i were in charge" narcassistic fantasy.There is no functional difference. It's all forced collectivism at the barrel of a gun. Take wrong thinkers to the gulags
244
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 21, 9:04am
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 21, 9:04am
marcus says
You are fixated on the fact that a different group of victim mentality assholes is oppressing a different target demographic, and suggesting that means Nazi's and progressives are different.
I am pointing out that Nazi's and progressives are almost identical, right down to the words they use to describe the outgroup.
Wait, what ?
You are fixated on the fact that a different group of victim mentality assholes is oppressing a different target demographic, and suggesting that means Nazi's and progressives are different.
I am pointing out that Nazi's and progressives are almost identical, right down to the words they use to describe the outgroup.
245
Bd6r
2018 Mar 21, 9:13am
Bd6r
2018 Mar 21, 9:13am
T2 says
Was not my intention to offend you in any way.
drB6, I will not be replying to your comments. Nor will I engage in any meaningful discussions on this site any more, for obvious reasons.
FP
Was not my intention to offend you in any way.
246
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 21, 9:16am
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 21, 9:16am
drB6 says
Gun "deaths" is a stat only used by liars or the ignorant. Gun murders is better, but the most relevant stat is violent crime rate per capita.
I'd say that it should not be gun deaths, it should be gun murders
Gun "deaths" is a stat only used by liars or the ignorant. Gun murders is better, but the most relevant stat is violent crime rate per capita.
247
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 21, 9:19am
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 21, 9:19am
RafiMaas says
Education, banking, healthcare, energy, food, and housing are the big ones.
Yes, leftist are totes cool w less regulated private frisbee making companies.
Please explain which means of production leftist want to make publicly owned?
Education, banking, healthcare, energy, food, and housing are the big ones.
Yes, leftist are totes cool w less regulated private frisbee making companies.
248
Malcolm
2018 Mar 21, 9:46am
Malcolm
2018 Mar 21, 9:46am
Booger says
There was some serious growth in Germany at the beginning. I'm not sure modern liberals would like Hitler, as he didn't like racial integration and he was imperialistic. I am starting to notice that liberals are becoming more authoritarian with the PC. However, there some interesting points that build on my ideal of a basic minimum income with a market based economy, and governments doing a part in encouraging commerce.
There was some serious growth in Germany at the beginning. I'm not sure modern liberals would like Hitler, as he didn't like racial integration and he was imperialistic. I am starting to notice that liberals are becoming more authoritarian with the PC. However, there some interesting points that build on my ideal of a basic minimum income with a market based economy, and governments doing a part in encouraging commerce.
250
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 21, 10:04am
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 21, 10:04am
RafiMaas says
Try using grammar others can understand.
RafiMaas says
Education is the most important industry for any collectivist authoritarian to control. See the "dear colleague" letter as an example. Or refer to my other thread wherein wrongthinking teachers and deploreables are removed from school so as to purify the environment. Progressives = nazis
Trying to? Too much, I rest my case.english?
Try using grammar others can understand.
RafiMaas says
Education
Education is the most important industry for any collectivist authoritarian to control. See the "dear colleague" letter as an example. Or refer to my other thread wherein wrongthinking teachers and deploreables are removed from school so as to purify the environment. Progressives = nazis
251
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 21, 10:10am
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 21, 10:10am
Goran_K says
If the waitress was white, then she deserved it. If she is straight she double deserves it. If she supports Trump, she triple deserves it.
Also, you can't blame the poor blacks, history of slavery and all.
In fact, simply posting this is racist. You are either a russian bot or a white supremecist. The federal dept of diversity and inclusion requires you come in for questioning.
Leftism in a nutshell.
www.youtube.com/embed/BbAa2xt_UeY
If the waitress was white, then she deserved it. If she is straight she double deserves it. If she supports Trump, she triple deserves it.
Also, you can't blame the poor blacks, history of slavery and all.
In fact, simply posting this is racist. You are either a russian bot or a white supremecist. The federal dept of diversity and inclusion requires you come in for questioning.
252
bob2356
2018 Mar 21, 10:15am
CBOEtrader says
Wrong, the press is the most important industry for any collective authoritarian to control.
Education is the most important industry for any collectivist authoritarian to control
Wrong, the press is the most important industry for any collective authoritarian to control.
253
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 21, 10:16am
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 21, 10:16am
bob2356 says
Great point.
CBOEtrader says
Education is the most important industry for any collectivist authoritarian to control
Wrong, the press is the most important industry for any collective authoritarian to control.
Great point.
254
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Mar 21, 11:00am
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Mar 21, 11:00am
bob2356 says
Which is why Monopolist Oligarchs like Carlos Slim (Mexican Phones) and Jeff Bezos (Internet Commerce) like to own them.
Wrong, the press is the most important industry for any collective authoritarian to control.
Which is why Monopolist Oligarchs like Carlos Slim (Mexican Phones) and Jeff Bezos (Internet Commerce) like to own them.
255
MrMagic
2018 Mar 21, 11:03am
MrMagic
2018 Mar 21, 11:03am
FP_ex says
Nope, no correlation because Lefties want to group suicides and homicides into the same group. That's like comparing apples to army tanks.
FP_ex says
Good point, why don't Lefties address the bigger issue of the two, suicides? Twice as many people kill THEMSELVES with a gun versus shooting OTHERS with a gun. Why is that fact overlooked by the Lefties? Isn't killing yourself an issue with mental illness versus a gun issue??
But, if we only had "common sense gun laws", expanded background checks and ban AR15's , people wouldn't commit suicide, right?
http://ritholtz.com/2017/10/gun-ownership-vs-gun-deaths/
The correlation is clear. And yes, it is not perfect because other factors are in play.
Nope, no correlation because Lefties want to group suicides and homicides into the same group. That's like comparing apples to army tanks.
FP_ex says
But why refuse to acknowledge and address the most obvious one?
Good point, why don't Lefties address the bigger issue of the two, suicides? Twice as many people kill THEMSELVES with a gun versus shooting OTHERS with a gun. Why is that fact overlooked by the Lefties? Isn't killing yourself an issue with mental illness versus a gun issue??
But, if we only had "common sense gun laws", expanded background checks and ban AR15's , people wouldn't commit suicide, right?
257
Goran_K
2018 Mar 21, 11:25am
Goran_K
2018 Mar 21, 11:25am
Sniper says
If you remove suicides, and the top 10 gun homicide cities from the statistics (all of which are Democrat controlled), the national gun homicide rate becomes minuscule.
Good point, why don't Lefties address the bigger issue of the two, suicides? Twice as many people kill THEMSELVES with a gun versus shooting OTHERS with a gun. Why is that fact overlooked by the Lefties? Isn't killing yourself an issue with mental illness versus a gun issue??
But, if we only had "common sense gun laws", expanded background checks and ban AR15's , people wouldn't commit suicide, right?
If you remove suicides, and the top 10 gun homicide cities from the statistics (all of which are Democrat controlled), the national gun homicide rate becomes minuscule.
258
RC2006
2018 Mar 21, 11:53am
RC2006
2018 Mar 21, 11:53am
More unstable people on the left.
If Hillary had won republitards wouldn't be doing this, who crys over this shit?
www.youtube.com/embed/GUBQ5PEFtNE
If Hillary had won republitards wouldn't be doing this, who crys over this shit?
www.youtube.com/embed/GUBQ5PEFtNE
259
MrMagic
2018 Mar 21, 11:55am
MrMagic
2018 Mar 21, 11:55am
Goran_K says
Now you went and did it. Spreading those FACTS again.
How can the gun grabbers complete their mission, when you blow up their narratives?
You're so mean! :)
If you remove suicides, and the top 10 gun homicide cities from the statistics (all of which are Democrat controlled), the national gun homicide rate becomes minuscule.
Now you went and did it. Spreading those FACTS again.
How can the gun grabbers complete their mission, when you blow up their narratives?
You're so mean! :)
260
HappyGilmore
2018 Mar 21, 12:41pm
CBOEtrader says
No, wrong again. Socialism has an actual definition that I shared with you. Sanders does not advocate for government ownership of all means of production. His platform is vastly different than Socialism.
The functional difference is ENORMOUS. It's impossible for me to imagine that anyone would think they are the same.
Ah ok, so socialism is the failed real world approach. Democratic socialism is a dream that leftists have about "real socialism". Its the "I would never be like Mao if i were in charge" narcassistic fantasy.There is no functional difference. It's all forced collectivism at the barrel of a gun. Take wrong thinkers to the gulags
No, wrong again. Socialism has an actual definition that I shared with you. Sanders does not advocate for government ownership of all means of production. His platform is vastly different than Socialism.
The functional difference is ENORMOUS. It's impossible for me to imagine that anyone would think they are the same.
262
anonymous
2018 Mar 22, 3:37pm
Sniper says
Lefties seem like the only ones actually willing to deal with suicides in reality.
See Liberals Right to Die laws in Colorado etc
FP_ex sayshttp://ritholtz.com/2017/10/gun-ownership-vs-gun-deaths/
The correlation is clear. And yes, it is not perfect because other factors are in play.
Nope, no correlation because Lefties want to group suicides and homicides into the same group. That's like comparing apples to army tanks.
FP_ex saysBut why refuse to acknowledge and address the most obvious one?
Good point, why don't Lefties address the bigger issue of the two, suicides? Twice as many people kill THEMSELVES with a gun versus shooting OTHERS with a gun. Why is that fact overlooked by the Lefties? Isn't killing yourself an issue with mental illness versus a gun issue??
But, if we only had "common sense gun laws", expanded background checks and ba...
Lefties seem like the only ones actually willing to deal with suicides in reality.
See Liberals Right to Die laws in Colorado etc
263
bob2356
2018 Mar 22, 3:49pm
Goran_K says
and the top 10 gun homicide states? all republican controlled. What about that? How do highly populated states like NY,MA,NJ have less homicides, actual homicides not rate, than shitholes like AL, LA, MS, TN where not nearly as many people live?
If you remove suicides, and the top 10 gun homicide cities from the statistics (all of which are Democrat controlled), the national gun homicide rate becomes minuscule.
and the top 10 gun homicide states? all republican controlled. What about that? How do highly populated states like NY,MA,NJ have less homicides, actual homicides not rate, than shitholes like AL, LA, MS, TN where not nearly as many people live?
264
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Mar 22, 4:01pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Mar 22, 4:01pm
And St.Louis, Baltimore, New Orleans, DC, Chicago, Detroit?
It's pretty clear that what drives the homicide rate is a certain demographic that is 13% of the population but more than 50% of all homicides.
It's pretty clear that what drives the homicide rate is a certain demographic that is 13% of the population but more than 50% of all homicides.
265
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Mar 22, 4:10pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Mar 22, 4:10pm
Here's an example, the New York City Homicide Rate.
It tends to cluster in certain neighborhoods.
Park Slope, Bay Ridge, Upper East Side, Flushing... low murder.
Brownsville, Flat Bush, East Harlem, Jamaica... high murder.
Interestingly, Brownsville has the worst homicide rate in NYC. There would be about a half-dozen neighborhoods equally bad or worse in Chicago. When was the last time Chicago had a Republican Mayor? 1931.
It tends to cluster in certain neighborhoods.
Park Slope, Bay Ridge, Upper East Side, Flushing... low murder.
Brownsville, Flat Bush, East Harlem, Jamaica... high murder.
Interestingly, Brownsville has the worst homicide rate in NYC. There would be about a half-dozen neighborhoods equally bad or worse in Chicago. When was the last time Chicago had a Republican Mayor? 1931.
266
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Mar 22, 4:26pm
MisdemeanorRebel
2018 Mar 22, 4:26pm
I wonder what Lousiana's Murder Rate would be without New Orleans, Shrevesport, and the 3 Black Majority Parishes in the Northeast. Probably a lot lower.
6.5% of the population - commits more than half the murder (assuming half of blacks are male, but that might be an overstatement due to the numbers in prison and killed from all causes).
We should talk about banning Nigrish Behavior rather than Guns.
6.5% of the population - commits more than half the murder (assuming half of blacks are male, but that might be an overstatement due to the numbers in prison and killed from all causes).
We should talk about banning Nigrish Behavior rather than Guns.
267
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 22, 6:04pm
CBOEtrader
2018 Mar 22, 6:04pm
RC2006 says
Its a sign of brainwashing. Brainwashing manipulates emotions to control people.
who crys over this shit?
Its a sign of brainwashing. Brainwashing manipulates emotions to control people.
268
MrMagic
2018 Mar 22, 6:33pm
MrMagic
2018 Mar 22, 6:33pm
TwoScoopsPlissken says
Great charts!! How will the Dems spin it, I wonder.
Years ago, I worked in the five boroughs. I can confirm that what that chart posts as demographics is very accurate. As a white dude, there were certain neighborhood I wouldn't go into for all the money in the world.
Here's an example, the New York City Homicide Rate.
It tends to cluster in certain neighborhoods.
Great charts!! How will the Dems spin it, I wonder.
Years ago, I worked in the five boroughs. I can confirm that what that chart posts as demographics is very accurate. As a white dude, there were certain neighborhood I wouldn't go into for all the money in the world.
269
Patrick
2019 Aug 25, 4:08pm
Patrick
2019 Aug 25, 4:08pm
CBOEtrader says
Here is a good explanation:
https://patrick.net/post/1326765/2019-08-23-perfect-description-of-how-public-debate-should-be
Why is it difficult for leftists to make points w/o attacking others?
Here is a good explanation:
Labeling someone as an “-ist” who believes in an “-ism” because of the person’s policy preference is just a shortcut to playground-style name-calling, cloaked in political terminology. It’s also generally a good indication that the attacker doesn’t have a solid argument and needs a way to end debate before it has even begun.
https://patrick.net/post/1326765/2019-08-23-perfect-description-of-how-public-debate-should-be
270
marcus
2019 Aug 25, 5:05pm
marcus
2019 Aug 25, 5:05pm
CBOEtrader says
It seems like CBOE is well qualified to answer his own question. You guys do it all the time. Although in this case, it's an attack without any other points being made.
Even this question is doing exactly what it accuses leftists of doing. "Why is it difficult for leftists to make points w/o attacking others?"
Does anyone else see the irony ?
Why is it difficult for leftists to make points w/o attacking others?
CBOEtrader saysToday's progressives would have been Nazi's FOR SURE. Group think idiocy always leads to tyranny.
It seems like CBOE is well qualified to answer his own question. You guys do it all the time. Although in this case, it's an attack without any other points being made.
Even this question is doing exactly what it accuses leftists of doing. "Why is it difficult for leftists to make points w/o attacking others?"
Does anyone else see the irony ?
« First « Previous Comments 232 - 271 of 277 Next » Last » Search these comments
Accusing others of being child killers for disagreeing about gun rights -OR- suggesting disagreement can only stem from ignorance or racism or both. This form of bigotry is so deeply rooted into the psyche of the left that it becomes almost impossible to discuss a political topic w/o letting these direct personal attacks slip.
Our forum has become an interesting case study in the leftists psychology. It is the product of $billions worth of propaganda blasting soft minds with news, and nonstop Hollywood bigotry against wrongthink. The Nazi's would be jealous of the righteousness seen in today's left, and even more jealous of the glee with which the left today enacts its fascist, anti-wrongthink agenda