patrick.net

SoftShell says

The only viable reason there is pushback on voter ID cards is the illegal immigrant vote.

This claim is moronic. You are clueless -- the number of undocumented immigrants who try to vote is almost non-existent. No undocumented immigrant wants to vote without authorization because it could jeopardize any potential immigration relief they have because it'd be a false claim to citizenship. If you make a false claim to citizenship, it doesn't matter how good your immigration relief claim is -- you're mostly fucked.

Ironically, people who don't understand immigration law are the most likely to make stupid claims about it. The concept of so-called "anchor babies" is another one -- it's almost insurmountable to get relief on a claim like this, but ignorant ideologues repeat that term whenever they are trying to make a flawed argument.

Yep, The Young Turks video says it all. The facts are indisputable, but that won't stop conservatives from lying. Damn conservatives could tell a truth even if it was in their own damn interest. They are pathological liars.

Hmmm...It appears you are living a sheltered life.
One of hundreds of examples....

http://www.youtube.com/embed/2hjmKBfrycQ#t=105

Dan8267 says

SoftShell says

The only viable reason there is pushback on voter ID cards is the illegal immigrant vote.

Illegal immigrants don't do in-person voter fraud. It is highly risky. They have much to lose. And there is no benefit

For the most part the benefit is not in the polls. it is in the immigrants pocket in the form of cash.

Dan8267 says

And there is no benefit because you'd have to repeat the act hundreds of times to have even a margin impact in the polls

What also is moronic is the left's resistance to, and reasons to suppress voter/national ID cards.
A national ID card can serve multiple purposes...so easy to cost-effectively implement with today's technology....
You'll have to provide another avenue of reasoning as to why such a thing is bad for the country.
Suppressing votes doesn't fly.

corntrollio says

the number of undocumented immigrants who try to vote is almost non-existent.

SoftShell says

One of hundreds of examples...

I noticed a hell of a lot of details missing. Did the people in question fill out the voter applications or were their identities simply stolen? No answer. How many of the hundreds of names turned out to be non-citizens? Which of the non-citizens voted in-person, if any, and which voted through absentee ballot. If the problem is with the voter registration database, how would a voter ID solve this problem? Non-citizens in the voter database would simply get the voter ID.

Additionally, your video does not address any of the facts presented by The Young Turks.

1- Illegal Immigrants (II's) routinely lie to obtain employment.
2- II's that obtain employment commit perjury when they sign the I-9 form supplied by their employer.
3- II's have broken the law by simply being in the USA
4- II's lie to obtain medical care
5- II's lie when obtaining food stamps
6- II's lie when obtaining unemployment benefits
7- II's lie when registering to vote.

The reason you don't see much of this in the news is due to liberal media bias in reporting it, and due to Hispanic backlash if they did report it.

Democratic party spokesmen justify their opposition to laws requiring proof of citizenship in order to register to vote by the absurd claim that poor people do not have birth certificates or passports. But we require everyone, including the poor, to produce such documents when becoming employed for their I-9 Forms. And if that is tolerable, then it must also be tolerable for the same documents to be produced to register to vote and some sort of photo ID in order to vote.
There is a huge problem with voter fraud. And, in my opinion, it is proven by the vehemence of the Democrats, the beneficiaries of the fraud, toward enforcement of our laws.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howard-foster/democrats-benefit-from-illegal-immigrants-voting_b_1418523.html

Dan8267 says

SoftShell says

One of hundreds of examples...

I noticed a hell of a lot of details missing.

Wiggl Wagon (wigglwagons)
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Why should I have to provide ID to board an airplane? Surely that is no more important than voting. That just affects a few people's lives. Voting affects millions of people's lives.

What you are saying below is a red herring, as the voting system is currently setup to not require proof of citizenship...so how in the hell would we know?

corntrollio says

he number of undocumented immigrants who try to vote is almost non-existent.

bottom line:
LEGAL citizens benefit if ILLEGALS do not vote.
LEGAL citizens should be the ones making the decisions in this country.

SoftShell says

. But we require everyone, including the poor, to produce such documents when becoming employed for their I-9 Forms

Huffington post doesn't know what they are talking about. The I-9 doesn't require a birth certificate or a passport. You can use a ss card and pretty much any picture id including a student ID. Illegals all have fake ss cards and picture IDs anyway.

SoftShell says

What you are saying below is a red herring, as the voting system is currently setup to not require proof of citizenship...so how in the hell would we know?

corntrollio says

he number of undocumented immigrants who try to vote is almost non-existent.

Then how are you so sure they are voting?

SoftShell says

A national ID card can serve multiple purposes...so easy to cost-effectively implement with today's technology....

You'll have to provide another avenue of reasoning as to why such a thing is bad for the country.

Suppressing votes doesn't fly.

Who is going to pay for the national ID card?

SoftShell says

What also is moronic is the left's resistance to, and reasons to suppress voter/national ID cards.

A national ID card can serve multiple purposes...so easy to cost-effectively implement with today's technology....

Great idea, it worked terrific in communist and fascist countries. You seriously want the government to have more information about you then they already do or is this trolling bullshit?

control point says

SoftShell says

A national ID card can serve multiple purposes...so easy to cost-effectively implement with today's technology....

You'll have to provide another avenue of reasoning as to why such a thing is bad for the country.

Suppressing votes doesn't fly.

Who is going to pay for the national ID card?

Why not require passport to vote? It's not far fetched, and every citizen does have one, or at least should.

FortWayne says

Why not require passport to vote? It's not far fetched, and every citizen does have one, or at least should.

I just renewed my passport, it cost $110. Would you change the burden of cost to the issuer if making a passport a requirement to vote?

control point says

Who is going to pay for the national ID card?

Other people!

Don't tax you, don't tax me!

Just tax the guy behind that tree!

Since a national ID card makes so much sense, I think a federal electronic gun registry also is a great idea: If one makes sense, so does the other!

FortWayne says

Why not require passport to vote? It's not far fetched, and every citizen does have one, or at least should.

There are 109 million passports for 311 million citizens. Not every citizen has one.

Iosef V HydroCabron says

Since a national ID card makes so much sense, I think a federal electronic gun registry also is a great idea: If one makes sense, so does the other!

It's different. No national gun registry is about freedom and being a rugged individualist standing up for your constitutional rights. Requiring a nation id is about, is about, is about oh hell never mind I forgot I can't figure out right wing logic.

We will transfer birth control funding away from the Sandra Flukes of the world and put it to better use implementing national ID cards with embedded iris imprints coupled with dna samples.

control point says

SoftShell says

A national ID card can serve multiple purposes...so easy to cost-effectively implement with today's technology....

You'll have to provide another avenue of reasoning as to why such a thing is bad for the country.

Suppressing votes doesn't fly.

Who is going to pay for the national ID card?

A national ID card would not contain any more information about anyone that the government doesn't already have.
Unless you have a specific example in mind...

bob2356 says

SoftShell says

What also is moronic is the left's resistance to, and reasons to suppress voter/national ID cards.

A national ID card can serve multiple purposes...so easy to cost-effectively implement with today's technology....

Great idea, it worked terrific in communist and fascist countries. You seriously want the government to have more information about you then they already do or is this trolling bullshit?

Agreed.
Surprised?

You can add gun registry information to the national ID card...have it all embedded on a chip with your iris scan and dna.

Iosef V HydroCabron says

Since a national ID card makes so much sense, I think a federal electronic gun registry also is a great idea: If one makes sense, so does the other!

With the world population increasing exponentially, terrorist organizations on the rise, international travel increasing, more borders opening up, it's only logical that at some future point there will be a World ID card.

Why not catch the wave of the future, develop and implement the technology before china/japan does so we can create jobs now and heal the middle class in this country.

SoftShell says

A national ID card would not contain any more information about anyone that the government doesn't already have.

SoftShell says

Why not catch the wave of the future, develop and implement the technology before china/japan does so we can create jobs now and heal the middle class in this country.

Following your "logic" to the end conclusion then It would be more logical to put it all on a encrypted chip and implant it rather than to implement it. No lost cards, no identity theft. The police could just walk around with RF scanners.

I think you should volunteer to be in the first test batch.

SoftShell makes a lot of assertions and provides little evidence. In contrast, independent commissions have study the alleged problem of in-person voter fraud and found only 13 cases in Pennsylvania. No solution that infringes upon a million person's voting rights in order to stop 13 illegal votes is rational. Hell 13 x 50 or 650 does not justify infringing a million legal votes.

And absentee ballet fraud is much, much more pervasive than in-person. There's more benefit to it. It scales more. And there's less risk. Yet, no conservative proposes preventing this fraud. If they really cared about stopping illegal votes, they would call for absentee ballots to be banned.

And when you get right down to it, most of SoftShell's complaints have nothing to do with voting or the illegality of immigrants and everything to do with immigration itself.

If the problem conservatives have with immigration is the illegality of it, then the solution is simple, quick, and easy. Make all immigration legal. Provide a free, quick path to citizenship. You want to be a U.S. citizen? Fill out a simple form and wowla, you're a tax paying citizen with a social security number.

Of course, this is not what conservatives want. They don't want immigrants to be legal. They want no more immigrants. And that's a perfectly fine position to take, if you are honest about it.

However, there are consequences to this like driving out all the profits that big farm makes using essentially slave labor. People in Florida will have to mow their own lawns like I do.

If conservatives had balls and honesty, they would simply come out against immigration, all immigration legal or not. Come up with a compelling case that America's population is already too high. Hell, I could make that case myself and have many times. But don't bullshit about immigration and voter law because you don't have the courage to defend the actual position you want.

The current system is the worst of all possibilities. We have massive amounts of immigration, yet
- the immigrants are doomed to live in poverty and thus use social resources payed by taxpayers
- children and adults are sent to countries they never knew
- the immigrants are abused by big farm and other corporations
- there is no tracking of people
- they don't pay taxes
- social funds like school funding is not allocated properly as a result
- more crime results from all the above, especially the poverty
- illegals are essentially treated as slaves or indentured servants with no legal rights

As much as conservatives want all the Mexicans to leave, they still need the Mexicans for cheap, slave labor. They just don't want to pay for the cost of keeping the slaves alive. That's why they don't want to solve the problem of immigration. They just want to use the issue to keep the immigrants powerless. They like the idea of a large population of slave labor that cannot vote or get benefits or a living wage. They like illegal immigration precisely because it dis-empowers and impoverishes multitudes of people. But they have to maintain the ruse that they are against it.

Conservatives, grow some balls and just come out against immigration itself.

bob2356 says

SoftShell says

What you are saying below is a red herring, as the voting system is currently setup to not require proof of citizenship...so how in the hell would we know?

corntrollio says

he number of undocumented immigrants who try to vote is almost non-existent.

Then how are you so sure they are voting?

You forgot to answer the question.

SoftShell says

We will transfer birth control funding away from the Sandra Flukes of the world and put it to better use implementing national ID cards with embedded iris imprints coupled with dna samples.

Saved.

In that case, you are not against a powerful federal government being involved in the lives of the citizenry, you are against it being involved in the lives of the citizenry only if it does so in ways you don't agree with.

You aren't against government spending and taxation, as long as it taxes and spends in ways you agree with.

Commie.

Dan8267 says

And when you get right down to it, most of SoftShell's complaints have nothing to do with voting or the illegality of immigrants and everything to do with immigration itself.

The problem I have is that Calif gives away so much to illegal immigrants. This has created a culture of subsidized people who have a culture built around this. This also gives them a big advantage over non subsidized workers.

Gee, I wonder who the 1 dislike was on my post #99 while there is 1 corresponding like on post #100.

There are 18 to 20 million illegal immigrants in a position to defraud the us government and their citizenry.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/9/nearly-20m-illegal-immigrants-us-ex-border-patrol/

Illegal immigrants, by definition, have intentionally broken US law just by being here. So it is a fact that this class of people have no problems ignoring/breaking US law.

While there are no concrete statistics to track illegal voting, those statistics are available for illegally obtaining food stamps, welfare checks, etc etc etc..

It is entirely logical to assume that 20 million lawbreakers, a good portion of them multiple lawbreakers, will add to that resume by voting illegally if the act is made profitable to them by any group that would benefit from their vote.

But, putting aside the illegal immigrant component, why the fuck would any US citizen want to expose the US democratic process of voting to over 70 million international visitors expected to arrive during 2014?

Quite simply, not having voter verification opens up the voting process to illegal immigrants, foreign visitors, convicts, and any other group present in the US who does not have the right to vote. Thats over 100 million potential illegal votes waiting in the wings to be bought and paid for by those that would benefit from their illegal votes...

bob2356 says

bob2356 says

SoftShell says

What you are saying below is a red herring, as the voting system is currently setup to not require proof of citizenship...so how in the hell would we know?

corntrollio says

he number of undocumented immigrants who try to vote is almost non-existent.

Then how are you so sure they are voting?

You forgot to answer the question.

That doesn't follow any sane person's logic..

bob2356 says

SoftShell says

Why not catch the wave of the future, develop and implement the technology before china/japan does so we can create jobs now and heal the middle class in this country.

Following your "logic" to the end conclusion then It would be more logical to put it all on a encrypted chip and implant it rather than to implement it.

I am defending the actual position I want.
We need legal immigrants to perform the functions you define in your post.
Just follow the law in implementing it...It's all about following the laws we all vote to put in place.
Quite simple, really.

Dan8267 says

If conservatives had balls and honesty, they would simply come out against immigration, all immigration legal or not. Come up with a compelling case that America's population is already too high. Hell, I could make that case myself and have many times. But don't bullshit about immigration and voter law because you don't have the courage to defend the actual position you want.

SoftShell says

That doesn't follow any sane person's logic..

I rest my case.

SoftShell says

But, putting aside the illegal immigrant component, why the fuck would any US citizen want to expose the US democratic process of voting to over 70 million international visitors expected to arrive during 2014?

It is very evident that you don't have the vaguest clue how voter registration works.

SoftShell says

It is entirely logical to assume that 20 million lawbreakers, a good portion of them multiple lawbreakers, will add to that resume by voting illegally if the act is made profitable to them by any group that would benefit from their vote

That doesn't follow any sane person's logic.

Two things are necessary:

1- provide proof of residency, available for free from any one of the 600,000,000 garbage cans on US curbs...

2- provide incentive (cash) to those in a position to demonize the system.

bob2356 says

SoftShell says

But, putting aside the illegal immigrant component, why the fuck would any US citizen want to expose the US democratic process of voting to over 70 million international visitors expected to arrive during 2014?

It is very evident that you don't have the vaguest clue how voter registration works.

You can't 'rest' what you don't have.

bob2356 says

SoftShell says

That doesn't follow any sane person's logic..

I rest my case.

You are entitled to your opinion.

bob2356 says

SoftShell says

It is entirely logical to assume that 20 million lawbreakers, a good portion of them multiple lawbreakers, will add to that resume by voting illegally if the act is made profitable to them by any group that would benefit from their vote

That doesn't follow any sane person's logic.

FortWayne says

Why not require passport to vote?

The government can revoke and confiscate passports. Therefore, they cannot be used as voter IDs. An ID needed for voting cannot be confiscated for any reason other than the person does not have the right to vote. Otherwise, it violates people's right to vote, which is paramount.

SoftShell says

4- II's lie to obtain medical care

5- II's lie when obtaining food stamps

6- II's lie when obtaining unemployment benefits

Where are you getting this stuff? No undocumented immigrant is eligible food stamps or unemployment benefits (unless they pay unemployment insurance, which many do or their employers do), and there's no evidence that undocumented immigrants are fraudulently obtaining them on a wide scale. As for medical care -- I'm not sure why they would need to lie to get medical care, please explain. Not even bothering addressing #7, it's just plain stupid -- again, no undocumented immigrants gives a shit about voting; there are plenty of other problems in their life. Take off the tin foil hat (and btw, posting a Washington Times article doesn't help, especially one whose chief support is disgruntled blue collar people who have no expertise in demography).

Dan8267 says

Conservatives, grow some balls and just come out against immigration itself.

They won't because business interests love lower class undocumented immigrants for cheap labor.

indigenous says

The problem I have is that Calif gives away so much to illegal immigrants.

Such as?

corntrollio says

indigenous says

The problem I have is that Calif gives away so much to illegal immigrants.

Such as?

Section 8 housing, WIC, emergency healthcare, children's education, child support for single mothers.