patrick.net

uomo_senza_nome_0 says

The problem is not changing the economic system, they say, it is adjusting ourselves to the changes sweeping the world.

Exactly, this is presented as an exogenous trend that no one controls, when in fact free trade was always the deliberate decision to put American workers in direct competition with dirt poor populace of the third world working in slave-like conditions.

uomo_senza_nome_0 says

they see not economic failure but individual failure, usually having to do with education, a subject of pious reverence for the professional class. You’re falling because you didn’t study hard enough or you didn’t go to a good school or you majored in the wrong subject.

Exactly. On top on it, people failing were told it's their fault. In America people failing and protesting are traditionally seen as whiners that are refusing to make any efforts to pull themselves up. But when put in direct competition with people earning 2 dollars a day - or illegal immigrants working below minimum wage - and half the population is affected, you can't say half of Americans are whiners. They were just screwed over and there is a difference.

Ironman says

Clueless voters?

Why would you call the voters who recognize that the economy is rigged against them, clueless?
Why would you call the people who are marginalized by the billionaire class in health care, education, environment, even basic necessities like water - clueless?

Are you clueless?

uomo_senza_nome_0 says

Are you clueless?

Yep he is.
In fact he will vote Trump for the exact same reasons. Clueless and hypocrite.

Young people vote Bernie, b/c they like authentic people and handies. They get the former from Bernie.

He does well in States that are in the Jam band festival circuit.

Tenpoundbass says

He does well in States that are in the Jam band festival circuit

Trump does well around the cross-burning circuit.

Hmm hmm Is that all you got?

What happens if(and that's a BIG if) Trump doest get thwarted and the will of the majority is trounced. You don't think we go away the next day do you?

We now have no respect for Alinsky dog whisle politcially correct patriot incorrect bullshit from the establishment. We'll be done with the PC charade, and wont be tollerating it any longer.

The next best way to shut down the establisment institution is to quit paying taxes and quit patronizing establishment businesses. I'll give it two months, three TOPS.

They'll be begging for Donald Trump.

It's a new World Hydro you're going to have to get a job.

Ironman says

Clueless, thinking that Bernie will accomplish any of his campaign promises... Reason, he's been in Congress for like 25 years, what has he accomplished.. NOTHING, but he's been chanting the same crap...

Here's the official link
Someone who has stood up against NAFTA, mass incarceration, Iraq War, bank deregulation and this is important -- before any of these were the popular position to take, at the very least - deserves recognition even though individually he can't reverse a decision.

Ironman says

But clueless voters think by voting him into the presidency will change that... even his fellow congressman think he's nuts... Want proof, how many fellow Senators have come out in support of him?

That's right. He is not the establishment candidate, hence the media bias. The arrogance of counting super-delegates to Hillary before the primaries are over, what the article refers to as invisible primary.

Ironman says

That's the definition of clueless..... but, it's the same group that voted in Obama, thinking he was going to pay their mortgage and gas bill...

The true "Definition of Insanity"...

What is more insane?
-- to see the extent of corporate welfare that has been doled out and not a single fraudulent CEO has gone to jail?

Or:
-- people trusting Obama to do the right thing for the middle class, and the trust broken by bringing the very same people who were responsible for the crisis in the first place (e.g. Larry Summers)?

Ironman says

now let's try bills that HE sponsored, not jumped on as a piggy back

This is a straw man, because the point of the link was to show that he was a voting member of the Congress, which means his yes/no vote has an influence on the outcome. Admittedly this is true on the cases where the vote is marginal as opposed to overwhelming. However this is the foundation of democracy and I have already argued that we don't have a functioning democracy, it is an oligarchy. But, it doesn't nullify his positions on issues.

Ironman says

Big deal... a five year old in kindergarten can put a check mark in box or vote yea or nay for their lunch choice. Making a decision to vote a certain way is meaningless...

Arguing out of context. The kind of change you are seeking does not happen overnight, it happens when a nation's consciousness awakens to the need for a change. The point was to show that Bernie stands for the principles he believes in. Whether you agree or not, at least you know he is consistent and honest. You can't argue about that for any other candidate.

Ironman says

Hell, Bernie wants Universal Health Care for all, yet he wasn't instrumental in getting it to fly in Vermont and it crashed and berned, yet somehow you Bernie supporters think he'll get it done in the complete country.... Really??

Legitimate criticism. Which is why he is fighting against the root causes like Citizens United. I admit that he wants a nation that is far more diverse than Scandinavian nations to be like the Scandinavian nations, which is nearly impossible - one of the parties is bat-shit crazy.

Ironman says

Ahhh, but he IS an establishment candidate, he's just "different"... If it wasn't for the government checks he receives each month, he'd be living in a van down by the river. Without sucking off of the tit of the taxpayers, he's got nothing...

WTF. How do you go from providing a legitimate criticism and the next minute throw up an Ad hominem?

Ironman says

Just because he has a belief on a policy doesn't automatically make him experienced enough to become President. That's two completely different animals.

LOL, how so? Do you need to have no principles, be a complete narcissist or a demagogue to become the President?

Ironman says

Not a Ad hominem, a fact. Go research where his income comes from. He couldn't make it in the private sector, so his other option, besides trying to survive on hand-outs and welfare, is to get a government job. In fact, for a guy who's been in Congress for 25 years, his net worth, at age 74, is at the bottom of all members in Congress. That's pretty sad... and shows his lack of ability with personal financial management.

LMAO, this actually makes my point. He is not bought and paid for like the others. Really - working in the government is not glamorous, unless you start getting paid by the billionaire class. Your judgment of his value is fundamentally flawed.

The few people I know who support Bernie...

One is high income and was shocked when I told him what would happen to his income taxes. Lol he thinks he's not loaded because of his spending habits. The look on his face was priceless. Even more so as he watched video of Bernie stating exactly what I had told him.

The other two are extended family members who have spotty job histories and suffer from mild mental illness. Well actually one doesn't work at all. The other gets fired or quits every couple years. Neither really wants to work.

Annecdotal, but relevant I think.

Heraclitusstudent says

Exactly. On top on it, people failing were told it's their fault. In America people failing and protesting are traditionally seen as whiners that are refusing to make any efforts to pull themselves up.

They voted on abortion and guns, not jobs. They voted to abolish unions. They got what they voted for. And they deserve to get it, good and hard.

The government will step in to restrict the markets - let's not kid ourselves: that's what protectionism is. Once provided with jobs through artificial means that take money from the more successful, these buck toothed rubes will return to hating the government and voting solely on abortion, abortion, guns and more abortion. And they will positively loathe any non-whites who benefit from government intervention or largesse.

When whites are involved, it's no longer "socialism" or "taking other people's money to help the unfit."

That's why you're all racists.

Ironman says

Show me where he's shown leadership, where he has managed groups of people. Show me how he has created long lasting jobs. What permanent accomplishments has he achieved for the residents of Vermont?

Hell, Bernie wants Universal Health Care for all, yet he wasn't instrumental in getting it to fly in Vermont and it crashed and berned, yet somehow you Bernie supporters think he'll get it done in the complete country.... Really??

Maybe you should read up on Bernie as mayor of burlington. He turned a city that was pretty much an industrial wasteland that didn't even have a supermarket into one that is now consistently rated as one of the top small cities to live. He worked very well with the local business leaders and community leaders to accomplish this and was widely admired by local business and the community for his accomplishments that truly transformed burlington. But hey don't let facts confuse you.

To bad you don't understand even the most fundamental aspects of government or how it works. Bernie is a US Senator. US senators vote on federal programs, they don't get state level programs up and running. They can vote on federal level programs that help their state, but they can't do anything about programs that a specific to one state at the state level only.

I'm always amazed that you find a politician not lining their pockets while fucking over their constituents a character flaw. Right wing nuts have a very different value system.

Not a bernie endorsement, just pointing out that as usual you don't know what you are talking about.

dodgerfanjohn says

Annecdotal, but relevant I think.

Interesting anecdotes. Look, I'm sure there are free-loaders in any society. But is free-loading the major problem in this country? the facts on the ground is that the level of income and wealth inequality in this country is too large to ignore. And note, the wealth inequality is not an accident, it is a systemic problem. The economy is rigged.

HydroCabron says

They voted on abortion and guns, not jobs. The voted to abolist unions. They got what they voted for. They deserve to get it, good and hard.

Distractions, diversions, bait and switch.

uomo_senza_nome_0 says

Interesting anecdotes. Look, I'm sure there are free-loaders in any society. But is free-loading the major problem in this country? the facts on the ground is that the level of income and wealth inequality in this country is too large to ignore. And note, the wealth inequality is not an accident, it is a systemic problem. The economy is rigged.

Except the media and dem focus is ONLY on the inequality with absolutely zero concern with why it exists at all, which would shine a huge negative light on Obama, which I suppose is a no no since it would make the first black president look terrible(funny how it comes full circle to political correctness).

Even Bernie only offers solutions. He does not publicly question what led to terrible policies that grossly exacerbated the income inequality matter. Hell he won't even attack his opponent on her biggest weaknesses.

So yeah income inequality, but let's not focus on monetary policy that created incentive for passive investments thereby lack of job creation. I.e. screw the middle class while letting the wealthy get wealthier, courtesy Obama.

dodgerfanjohn says

Except the media and dem focus is ONLY on the inequality with absolutely zero concern with why it exists at all, which would shine a huge negative light on Obama, which I suppose is a no no since it would make the first black president look terrible(funny how it comes full circle to political correctness).

Even Bernie only offers solutions. He does not publicly question what led to terrible policies that grossly exacerbated the income inequality matter. Hell he won't even attack his opponent on her biggest weaknesses.

So yeah income inequality, but let's not focus on monetary policy that created incentive for passive investments thereby lack of job creation. I.e. screw the middle class while letting the wealthy get wealthier, courtesy Obama.

Absolutely true.....

dodgerfanjohn says

Except the media and dem focus is ONLY on the inequality with absolutely zero concern with why it exists at all, which would shine a huge negative light on Obama, which I suppose is a no no since it would make the first black president look terrible(funny how it comes full circle to political correctness).

Even Bernie only offers solutions. He does not publicly question what led to terrible policies that grossly exacerbated the income inequality matter. Hell he won't even attack his opponent on her biggest weaknesses.

So yeah income inequality, but let's not focus on monetary policy that created incentive for passive investments thereby lack of job creation. I.e. screw the middle class while letting the wealthy get wealthier, courtesy Obama.

Well, Bernie absolutely focuses on the issues that cause inequality--he just disagrees with you on what those issues are. And he's right.

dodgerfanjohn says

with absolutely zero concern with why it exists at all, which would shine a huge negative light on Obama, which I suppose is a no no since it would make the first black president look terrible(funny how it comes full circle to political correctness).

Depends on your source for news consumption.
If you drink the kool-aid offered by CNN, MSNBC and Fox - of course you will not see it.

State of economy:
http://wallstreetonparade.com/2016/01/state-of-the-union-obama-plays-pope-gundlach-plays-realist/

Civil liberties:
https://theintercept.com/2016/03/08/nobody-knows-the-identity-of-the-150-people-killed-by-u-s-in-somalia-but-most-are-certain-they-deserved-it/

Banking reform:
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2014/01/matt-taibbi-asks-why-obamas-regulatory.html
http://billmoyers.com/segment/neil-barofsky-on-the-need-to-tackle-banking-reform/

Many of Bernie supporters are younger, and not subject to the kind of brainwashing that the older folk in this country are, so media bias doesn't matter.

There's also the intelligence gap. All of the Trump and Hillary supporters seem to be very stupid people, while many of us Bernie supporters are highly intelligent.

Just look at Patnet as example. All the posters that post anti-Bernie stuff, are standing in the knee deep part of the shallow end of the gene pool, wearing their swimmies. There's a lot of stupid in this country

errc says

There's a lot of stupid in this country

You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls. They got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying. Lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want. They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests ... - George Carlin

I like Bernie too, but he's not as ragey as Trump and he is fine with bringing in a Muslipocalypse of rapeugees. So yah I've made my decision.

uomo_senza_nome_0 says

What propels Bernie despite media bias?

The media finds the Clintons to be more profitable for them. Bernie is boring and has bad hair. Fewer people will watch news about him.

Dan8267 says

uomo_senza_nome_0 says

What propels Bernie despite media bias?

The media finds the Clintons to be more profitable for them. Bernie is boring and has bad hair. Fewer people will watch news about him.

Except for Trump, they are all boring.