patrick.net

Their arrogance? tough shit. those people who took those loans thought they were 'nouveau riche'. WHUPS!

The weakness of the tea party is the members often fail to see that Bush/Obama are more similar than different. Bush never saw government spending he didn't like (he expanded not just the military, but education, health care (Medicare part D), etc.)

So, if you are really against government waste, you have to be just as critical of Bush as Obama, and quite frankly, most Tea Partiers aren't. So they come off as insincere idiots.

The weakness of the tea party is that like all Americans they can't brew good tea.

They drink bad coffee at their tea party meetings, they are insincere idiots.

This is what you guys need:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8679876.stm

The weakness of the Tea Party is that they are in fact the "militant wing of the GOP" (Newt Gingrich) and unwilling to admit it. This "we are a valid 3rd party" nonsense is a smokescreen and everyone knows it, and it just makes them look foolish claiming otherwise. When you have guys like that CNN Teabagger correspondent doofus publicly threatening to use his shotgun to scare off census workers, you can see how serious they take the Constitution. The US Census is in fact a legitimate government function but they are so irrational and afraid Obama's Black Helicopters are coming to get them, they can't see what idiocy it is to claim you are 100% for the Constitution ....blah blah FOUNDING FATHERS INTENDED.... blah blah but ready to ice a temporary Census worker over duties clearly outlined in Article 1 Section 2 of the same document. I would be interested to find out what percentage of Teabaggers would pass the US citizenship test.

Weak tea is bad enough, but why do so many wear lumberjack shirts? How many taxes does a lumberjack have to pay?

Bay Aryans are so out of touch with the rest of the country its scary.

The teaparty is nothing more than a group of people with individual ideas of what they're standing for. Each one has their own reasons, and I'm betting if you mixed two cities groups together, there would be huge arguments over what they were parading around for.

The Original Bankster, yeah, the banks are the victims...hahaha

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/TheBigMoney/mortgage-meltdown-banks-silenced-whistleblowers/story?id=10600611

The weakness of the tea party is that 50% of population already do not pay federal (and chances are state as well) income tax but vote more and more benefits themselves at our expense. So even before the next amnesty there are arguably enough freeloaders to out-vote normal people.

Nick says

The weakness of the tea party is that 50% of population already do not pay federal (and chances are state as well) income tax but vote more and more benefits themselves at our expense. So even before the next amnesty there are arguably enough freeloaders to out-vote normal people.

Who are these people?!?! The poor? Do they even vote? When I had my interest on mortgage deduction, property tax deduction, child credit, child care deduction, 401K, health insurance, blah, blah blah I paid a whopping 2% in federal income taxes. And I aint poor. I don't think folks realize how little they pay in taxes. The are deaf from the constant beating of the 'getting taxed to death' drums.

@Leigh--

You are exactly right. I bet most people would be surprised at how many of the ~50% that don't pay taxes would be considered middle or upper class....

Rule No. 1

"If it sounds to good to be true, then it IS."

If this rule applies then that person is either involved in a theft or a fraud. Period!

The Tea Party guys were "Driving" the Turnip truck, you're defending all of the Idiots that "Fell" off the Turnip truck.

Yeah can't agree with Nick. He needs to think more independently. I added an update to my link at: http://hubpages.com/hub/Go-to-hell-IMF-We-dont-want-your-austerity-plans-or-tax-increases

Here is the addition and I want to know what you all think: Update: Investors are afraid that the debt cutting is too deep and will threaten the Eurozone recovery. See, this is the conundrum. Quit stimulating and investors will abandon you! Stimulate too much and investors will abandon you!

And original bankster, I wouldn't be too proud of your station. God will strike you with some itch or something. :))

Leigh, and when all is said and done, you think you have the right to some economic advantage over 90% of the country? I don't think so, idiot.

The Weakness of the Tea Party is their arrogance toward those who have problem ponzi loans. Like that misguided Rick Santelli, these guys are blaming mainstreet for Wall Street fraud.

Arrogance it may not be, but rather anger from those who have been responsible and bulding a foundation for their families, without asking for government handouts. We certainly saw plenty of people who showed off their arrogance with buying up more home than they could possible afford and being really flashy buying up all sorts of junk from equity they took from their homes. They turn around the tell others how rich they are... I seen lots of this even in Los Gatos.

The Original Bankster says

Leigh, and when all is said and done, you think you have the right to some economic advantage over 90% of the country? I don’t think so, idiot.

You think only 10% of the population gets to take advantage of those deductions and credits?!?!?! You need to get out more.

So what did you think of the news clip I posted earlier today on this thread? Still think the banks are the victims?

thomas.wong1986 says

and being really flashy buying up all sorts of junk from equity they took from their homes.

That really is the unforgivable part, the Smug pricks as they cut you off in the Costco parking lot in the big SUV's,, the scurried into the big box store and bought ten of every thing, while I parked the car. I'd see them out there stuffing the back of their Escalade as I leave empty handed having to go to another store, because these people using money that wasn't there's. Bought up every damn box of Ding Dongs and Ho Ho's they could find.

And how they proudly displayed their 80 inch HDTV box in their drive to prove they are great and everyone else is shit. Flipping that house and moving on to the next one, to fill with more crap from the proceeds. I doubt they ever thought in one damn minute they would ride any of those mortgages through.
They were counting on a flip miracle, til one day they can pay cash for a 3 million dollar mansion from flipping up. These fools couldn't even afford the tax on property like that, let alone the mortgage on the one they were paying now.

They only pulled their heads out of their ass, when the bank called, then they were Victims.

Bullshit, I've been a Victim of their gross Stupidity, my Kids are a Victim of their stupidity, we're still paying for their Stupidity.

Yeah Thomas, those 40 MILLION AMERICANS who took use of food stamps, they are all dead-beats out partying in their Hummers going WHOO HOO and calling you a fool. Or maybe not and maybe this vision of deadbeats living up the high life with a giant plasma screen, and some Moet and some new "rims", all on the subprime dime.... maybe all that is a load of horsehockey whitewash that you use to feel smug and superior.

The tea party was born out of anger - completely expected in times like these. But that anger is being manipulated and fed by moneyed interests and media/blogospere demogogues leading to misinformation, scapegoating and false outrage pointed away from the real problems facing our country.

The message has been dumbed down to the point where contradictory ideals actually are used as a platform eg. "Big government is trying to take away my Medicare". Or their fear of the conspiracy led by the socialist fascists or the fascist socialist.

Its easy in times like these to scapegoat and finger point and the tea party quickly devolved into a herd of sheep shepherded by their prophets Palin and Beck

shultzie says

The tea party was born out of anger - completely expected in times like these. But that anger is being manipulated and fed by moneyed interests and media/blogospere demogogues leading to misinformation, scapegoating and false outrage pointed away from the real problems facing our country.

The message has been dumbed down to the point where contradictory ideals actually are used as a platform eg. “Big government is trying to take away my Medicare”. Or their fear of the conspiracy led by the socialist fascists or the fascist socialist.

Its easy in times like these to scapegoat and finger point and the tea party quickly devolved into a herd of sheep shepherded by their prophets Palin and Beck

Maybe, but Democrats bitching about the Tea Party, or trying to talk a Tea P artier down off the ledge.
Is like Hulk Holgan discussing Woman stuff to preteens. Like Proper douche technique, tampons or pads, birth control or rythm. It's just creepy and not genuinely convincing.

The Tea Party will either be its own Undoing, or not. One thing for sure, the More Democrats bitch whine and moan about them, to Eyes like mine the Sexier the Tea Party looks.

And they are One bad Ass sexy Bitch at this point, just from listening to the rhetoric here.

Tenouncetrout says
Maybe, but Democrats bitching about the Tea Party, or trying to talk a Tea P artier down off the ledge.
Is like Hulk Holgan discussing Woman stuff to preteens. Like Proper douche technique, tampons or pads, birth control or rythm. It’s just creepy and not genuinely convincing.
The Tea Party will either be its own Undoing, or not. One thing for sure, the More Democrats bitch whine and moan about them, to Eyes like mine the Sexier the Tea Party looks.

I can't argue that point - once the midterms elections are over and attention turns to 2012 election, the GOP is going to try to mute the extreme wing (much like Bush used the evangelicals to get elected and then gave them little regard). The question is will they be able to or will they be hamstring from a group they let get too powerful.

Dems would be best to shut up at that point and let them slug it out...but they won't

Hey Trout, liars like NAR were telling them that real estate always goes up or almost always. And that NAR guy David Lereah was on CNBC and it was a ponzi scam. If you are too dense to see this, Trout, then you will always have the banks laughing at you as you divert attention to the poor and middle classes. The big banks did this on purpose. The ponzi was on purpose and was a scam from the top, from the central banks and the international banker cabal.

Again, if you use this to distance yourself from the rest of mainstreet you are like the Tea Party, thick as bricks. Then don't worry, your children will be ripped off down the road by the financial cabal. Way to go.

GaryA says

Hey Trout, liars like NAR were telling them that real estate always goes up or almost always. And that NAR guy David Lereah was on CNBC and it was a ponzi scam. If you are too dense to see this, Trout, then you will always have the banks laughing at you as you divert attention to the poor and middle classes. The big banks did this on purpose. The ponzi was on purpose and was a scam from the top, from the central banks and the international banker cabal.

I have no love for the banking industry, but they collectively lost their shirt on the housing bubble. Not sure how you could think they did that on purpose...

I don't think you understand the mentality of people like Angelo Mozilo, Chuck Prince, Hank Paulson, Bob Nardelli. It's all about HOW MUCH MONEY CAN I SHOVEL OUT OF THE COMPANY SAFE INTO MY POCKETS. They didn't lose their shirts. They made out like bandits for years and will never miss a meal. That they wrecked the economy and some underlings and their companies are now suffering, is not something that bothers them a bit. Sociopaths do not care about their companies, or people other than themselves. Run the con, get out of town when things get hot.

@Vicente--

That I agree with--there were people who made out like bandits. The banking industry as a whole most certainly did not.

The Original Bankster says

Leigh, and when all is said and done, you think you have the right to some economic advantage over 90% of the country? I don’t think so, idiot.

Please be respectful, OB: it's Ms. Idiot to you.

The problem with the TP is that they're angry as hell and they're not going to take it any more - but they dont' know what they're mad about or who they're mad at. They are manipulated by Faux News, author of this "grass roots" movement.

I applaud people who disagree with the status quo - and those people who have a message and a mission are cool. But it's sad when people are manipulated and used as puppets by pundits.

I don't blame the banks completely - people who took out toxic loans in order to finance a lifestyle they couldn't afford shouldn't get a modification. Many people drank the kool aide and are hopelessly upside down on their homes - and feel entitled because they scream out that they are victims. No one forced them to buy, refinance, or spend spend spend. The banks shouldn't have received my money to stay solvent while they throw people out of their homes.

According to her post, Leigh pays a lesser percentage of taxes than I. I don't resent her - in fact, I respect her for being smart enough to legally use the tax codes to her advantage.

Calling other people on this board Bay Aryans and Idiots because you disagree with them is offensive and detracts from whatever message you might have.

Tatu banks did not lose their shirts. They will end up owning most of the real estate that they made money on when they purchased the loans from the originators. Don't be fooled, the TBTF banks are bigger now than ever. Who is telling you that they lost money? I gotta talk to that guy.

Ellie Mae, I no longer have a mortgage thus no longer get that juicy interest on mortgage and property tax deduction. Now I feel like I'm getting taxed to death as a lowly renter. Maybe I'll keep procreating!!! Is there a limit on the kiddo credit...how does a dozen sound?! JK, I'm pleasantly tuckered out w/ these two:O)

GaryA says

Tatu banks did not lose their shirts. They will end up owning most of the real estate that they made money on when they purchased the loans from the originators. Don’t be fooled, the TBTF banks are bigger now than ever. Who is telling you that they lost money? I gotta talk to that guy.

And didn't the big dog banks take that TARP money and invest it in the stock market riding the big recovery wave?!?! They sure as hell didn't use it to help mortgage holders. Sh!!!t, did you see their profits these last two quarters. Sure they are losing money in the mortgage department but that is HEAVILY outweighed by their investments.

Leigh says

GaryA says

Tatu banks did not lose their shirts. They will end up owning most of the real estate that they made money on when they purchased the loans from the originators. Don’t be fooled, the TBTF banks are bigger now than ever. Who is telling you that they lost money? I gotta talk to that guy.

And didn’t the big dog banks take that TARP money and invest it in the stock market riding the big recovery wave?!?! They sure as hell didn’t use it to help mortgage holders. Sh!!!t, did you see their profits these last two quarters. Sure they are losing money in the mortgage department but that is HEAVILY outweighed by their investments.

Yes, Leigh, they took tarp money and leveraged it. They went to the discount window and borrowed at less than 1/2 percent and used that money to buy treasuries, leveraged with debt, at NO RISK, and made even more lending out at high interest. We are talking trillions of dollars if you consider that they also help keep treasury rates artificially low, robbing savers. I want to go to JPM and demand my money in interest back, but they would laugh and get richer.

The only thing that can hurt these banks is major strategic defaults and major default by the PIIGS, causing the European banks to fail and take JPM and Citibank with them. Hmmm, will that happen? Maybe but probably not.

I would respectfully like to make a small correction tatupu70. It is actually the American taxpayer who has gotten royally hosed by the banks via the fed, the treasury, Fannie, and Freddy. We are on the hook for all their givaways and backstops.

Bingo Vincente! This is the scam of the century and these people are indeed sociopaths, but highly educated sociopaths. That's exactly what Harvard business school prides itself on producing. People who can rob without a gun and never do a minute of jail time. I'll believe in justice for all when I see those fuckers in prison.

@deanrite/Gary--
I never said the American taxpayer isn't going to be on the hook for some of these costs. But Gary is 100% wrong in his assertion that the banks made money on this mess. Clearly smaller banks have failed in large numbers and the TBTF banks have had their shareholders diluted significantly from the government loans. They are making money off the discount window, but that is just keeping them from failing. They are still writing off bad loans and will continue to for several quarters if not years.

"When are people going to learn. Democracy doesn't work"
-Homer Simpson-

(PS why is this entire forum topic linked to a url?? non-functioning but still weird)

tatupu70 says

@deanrite/Gary–

I never said the American taxpayer isn’t going to be on the hook for some of these costs. But Gary is 100% wrong in his assertion that the banks made money on this mess. Clearly smaller banks have failed in large numbers and the TBTF banks have had their shareholders diluted significantly from the government loans. They are making money off the discount window, but that is just keeping them from failing. They are still writing off bad loans and will continue to for several quarters if not years.

TARP money given to banks for mortgage fiasco. Banks making big bucks with TARP money. Banks making money on this mess. Why can't you see that?

Where would the banks be without the TARP money? To put it more simply.

So, how are the banks making these record profits if the mortgage mess was so devastating for them?

Remember the chatter about this piece?

So When Will Banks Give Loans?

By JOE NOCERA
Published: October 24, 2008

“Chase recently received $25 billion in federal funding. What effect will that have on the business side and will it change our strategic lending policy?”

It was Oct. 17, just four days after JPMorgan Chase’s chief executive, Jamie Dimon, agreed to take a $25 billion capital injection courtesy of the United States government, when a JPMorgan employee asked that question. It came toward the end of an employee-only conference call that had been largely devoted to meshing certain divisions of JPMorgan with its new acquisition, Washington Mutual.

“Twenty-five billion dollars is obviously going to help the folks who are struggling more than Chase,” he began. “What we do think it will help us do is perhaps be a little bit more active on the acquisition side or opportunistic side for some banks who are still struggling. And I would not assume that we are done on the acquisition side just because of the Washington Mutual and Bear Stearns mergers. I think there are going to be some great opportunities for us to grow in this environment, and I think we have an opportunity to use that $25 billion in that way and obviously depending on whether recession turns into depression or what happens in the future, you know, we have that as a backstop.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/25/business/25nocera.html?_r=1

Leigh--

Unless I'm terribly mistaken, TARP money was LOANED to banks. Not given. But I agree that US taxpayers will foot some of the bill. My point is that it was far from a free ride for the banks. Many went under and the large ones lost hundreds of millions/billions on this mess.

tatupu70 says

Leigh–
Unless I’m terribly mistaken, TARP money was LOANED to banks. Not given. But I agree that US taxpayers will foot some of the bill. My point is that it was far from a free ride for the banks. Many went under and the large ones lost hundreds of millions/billions on this mess.

ANd the money was never used for what it was intended for, to help the mortgage holder.

I didn't think it was intended to help the mortgage holders--it was intended to keep the financial system from imploding.

Leigh says

When I had my interest on mortgage deduction, property tax deduction, child credit, child care deduction, 401K, health insurance, blah, blah blah I paid a whopping 2% in federal income taxes. And I aint poor.

Ellie Mae, I no longer have a mortgage thus no longer get that juicy interest on mortgage and property tax deduction. Now I feel like I’m getting taxed to death as a lowly renter. Maybe I’ll keep procreating!!! Is there a limit on the kiddo credit…how does a dozen sound?! JK, I’m pleasantly tuckered out w/ these two:O)

I was responding to the OB's comment about you - I took offense at his calling you an idiot. I realize that you can defend yourself - but I was weighing in. He's angry and striking out at you - but it's not appreciated.

tatupu70 says

I didn’t think it was intended to help the mortgage holders–it was intended to keep the financial system from imploding.

But that's how it was sold to the public, at least the second round of bailouts.

I am not a regular here so I don't recall your take on the banks responsibily in this fiasco but did you see tha article about the whistleblowers within the big banks...

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/TheBigMoney/mortgage-meltdown-banks-silenced-whistleblowers/story?id=10600611