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The commander in chief has a duty to protect Americans.
Warmaking powers belong to Congress; it is unconstitutional IMHO to give the President nebulous authority.
Awesome. Terrorists don't deserve rights. If we want information from them, we must get it any possible way.
So the President can just name people terrorists, no due process, no conviction. Sounds like Tyranny to me - isn't that what the Kings of France or England used to do? Lettres d' Cachet? Courts of Star Chamber?
Awlaki was an American. It was not possible to bring him to trial. Besides, having a piece of paper that says "American Citizen" does not make them any less dangerous.
And therefore entitled to due process. See above. At the very LEAST, the judicial branch should review the evidence and try in abstentia. This is something that used to known as balance and separation of powers.
Don't forget the Unions.
Unions are a shadow of their former power. If all or most of our ills came from unions, explain the mess today.
Don't forget that Obama hawked a loogie into a kid's mouth while he held him down on the playground when he was in second grade.
I can accept everything else, but not loogiegate.
The commander in chief has a duty to protect Americans.
Warmaking powers belong to Congress; it is unconstitutional IMHO to give the President nebulous authority.
The Commander in chief said he had the authority to go after ISIS with Congress approval. I'm OK with that.
Awesome. Terrorists don't deserve rights. If we want information from them, we must get it any possible way.
So the President can just name people terrorists, no due process, no conviction. Sounds like Tyranny to me - isn't that what the Kings of France or England used to do? Lettres d' Cachet? Courts of Star Chamber?
We are in a war. Due process shit will only give the enemy an advantage. If you are a member of a terrorist organization, you are a terrorist even if you never held a gun.
Awlaki was an American. It was not possible to bring him to trial. Besides, having a piece of paper that says "American Citizen" does not make them any less dangerous.
And therefore entitled to due process. See above. At the very LEAST, the judicial branch should review the evidence and try in abstentia. This is something that used to known as balance and separation of powers.
He was a known terrorist. I'm not concerned about his rights. Fuck him.
Shit, Obama's a RIEBN, Republican In Everything But Name.
Now aren't you glad you voted for him?
I'm glad that I DID NOT vote for Obama.
Keep making those false assumptions, CIC. Don't ever let the facts influence your perception of reality.
Shit, Obama's a RIEBN, Republican In Everything But Name.
Now aren't you glad you voted for him?
I'm glad that I DID NOT vote for Obama.
Keep making those false assumptions, CIC. Don't ever let the facts influence your perception of reality.
Who did you vote for in 2008, 2012?
He was a known terrorist. I'm not concerned about his rights. Fuck him
and when one of your pissed off ex wives calls dhs to say you are plotting with a bunch of middle east guys to kill the president that's exactly what dhs is going to say about you while you sit in jail forever without access to a lawyer.
That's why there is such a thing as due process, to prevent people from getting screwed if someone fouls up, or incompetent, or lazy, or phsyco. There have been many, many cases of innocent people jailed because cops, da's, crime labs, lawyers lied for one reason of another. That's even with all the checks and balances in the legal system. What do you suppose is going on in the security system with no checks and balances at all. Do you thing they are going to say oops we screwed up? Yea right. They are never going to let any mistakes be declassified, ever.
I guess simple concepts like that are beyond you.
- Torturing terror suspects
Awesome. Terrorists don't deserve rights.
1. All humans have human rights. A right, by definition, cannot be taken away. A liberty that can be taken away is, by definition, a privilege.
2. Terror suspects are not necessary terrorists.
The vast majority of terror suspects have never engage in terrorism.
An eight-month McClatchy investigation in 11 countries on three continents has found that Akhtiar was one of dozens of men — and, according to several officials, perhaps hundreds — whom the U.S. has wrongfully imprisoned in Afghanistan, Cuba and elsewhere on the basis of flimsy or fabricated evidence, old personal scores or bounty payments.
McClatchy interviewed 66 released detainees, more than a dozen local officials — primarily in Afghanistan — and U.S. officials with intimate knowledge of the detention program. The investigation also reviewed thousands of pages of U.S. military tribunal documents and other records.
This unprecedented compilation shows that most of the 66 were low-level Taliban grunts, innocent Afghan villagers or ordinary criminals. At least seven had been working for the U.S.-backed Afghan government and had no ties to militants, according to Afghan local officials. In effect, many of the detainees posed no danger to the United States or its allies.
The investigation also found that despite the uncertainty about whom they were holding, U.S. soldiers beat and abused many prisoners.
Some asshole goat farmer holds a grudge against his neighbor for some perceived slight that occurred 10 years ago. So the goat farmer falsely accuses his neighbor of working for the Taliban. U.S. soldiers than imprison and torture the neighbor. And assholes like you support this. You are a large part of the problem.
Just remember, eventually some corrupt asshole will accuse you or one of your family members of being a terrorist or criminal because of
- a grudge
- a bounty
- a clerical error
- pseudo-science
And then you and your family will have "no rights". Do you really want to live in that world? Do you think your white skin will protect you? It won't. It hasn't protected other white males with no criminal records.
White guy, innocent, murdered by the state of Texas
White guy, innocent, almost murdered by the state of Florida, spent 18 years on death row
Those are some pretty big fucking mistakes you're willing to make. Image those mistakes being made against your family.
It was not possible to bring him to trial.
It is always possible for the law to bring a person to trial that the state wants to bring to trial. Only pussies say otherwise.
- Corrupt ties to big business
Don't forget the Unions.
Even the most corrupt union cannot do as much damage as too-big-too-fail corporations. You are trying to distract from a major problem by siting a minor one.
- Supports the USA Nazi Patriot Act
I love the Nazi Patriot Act. Lets expand it.
You'll love it until its used against your family. Then you'll do a 180. This selfish, self-centered characteristic is intrinsic to conservatives. They never give a damn about injustices until it personally affects them.
If conservatives had even a tiny bit of intelligence, they would realize that you cannot protect your own rights without protecting everyone else's.
If conservatives had even a tiny bit of intelligence, they would realize that you cannot protect your own rights without protecting everyone else's.
If they had even a tiny bit of intelligence then they wouldn't be conservatives.
Some of these 95 itms are totally legit. Some are exaggerated.
Some though, imply a total lack of intellectual honesty. Such as this:
12) Increased the national debt more in one term than Bush did in two
The national debt increased more during Obama’s first three years and two months than it did during all eight years of George W. Bush’s presidency.
There are only two possibilities, that is if you think this is a serious indictment of Obama's presidency.
Either you don't understand, after having ample opportunity to comprehend the very simple truth. Or you are a low integrity lying DB, who enjoys using lies to support their opinion. I have the lowest respect you can imagine for this type of person.
Again, there are some very legit criticisms on the list.
- Torturing terror suspects
Awesome. Terrorists don't deserve rights.
1. All humans have human rights. A right, by definition, cannot be taken away. A liberty that can be taken away is, by definition, a privilege.
2. Terror suspects are not necessary terrorists.
You are absolutely right. I still don't care. I am not gonna stand up for them, worrying about the rights of terrorists who openly call on Muslims to kill us. If our military has determined they are terrorists, then it's good enough for me. As you have shown in your above posts, going through our pathetically slow and expensive court system does not guarantee justice. Are you saying if an imminent terrorist attack is at hand, we should go through the fucking courts first. Bullshit, we could be dead by then.
ust remember, eventually some corrupt asshole will accuse you or one of your family members of being a terrorist or criminal because of
- a grudge
- a bounty
- a clerical error
- pseudo-science
Relax, the CIA is not that stupid.
It was not possible to bring him to trial.
It is always possible for the law to bring a person to trial that the state wants to bring to trial. Only pussies say otherwise.
No it isn't.
- Corrupt ties to big business
Don't forget the Unions.
Even the most corrupt union cannot do as much damage as too-big-too-fail corporations. You are trying to distract from a major problem by siting a minor one.
Unions don't have to be corrupt to do damage. Just being unions is bad enough. The Twinkies Unions (God knows how many) may not have been corrupt, but the damage they did was disgraceful.
I love the Nazi Patriot Act. Lets expand it.
You'll love it until its used against your family. Then you'll do a 180.
If you became a victim of terrorists you would be doing a 180 and agreeing with me.
This selfish, self-centered characteristic is intrinsic to conservatives. They never give a damn about injustices until it personally affects them.
If conservatives had even a tiny bit of intelligence, they would realize that you cannot protect your own rights without protecting everyone else's.
I'm not conservative. I am an Independent who happens to agree on this with them. But you can still call me stupid. :):)
If conservatives had even a tiny bit of intelligence, they would realize that you cannot protect your own rights without protecting everyone else's.
If they had even a tiny bit of intelligence then they wouldn't be conservatives.
touché
The Conservatives can say the same thing against the libruls. As an independent I get to laugh at both. :) :) :)
We are in a war
You can't fight a war against a tactic. "The War against Flank Attacks" "The War against Fortifications" "The War against Aerial Interdiction".
How's the War on Drugs going?
How's the War on Drugs going?
Not very well I'm afraid. The war against terrorism is doing better.
If you are a member of a terrorist organization, you are a terrorist even if you never held a gun.
So the President unilaterally determines that? Sounds safe and not open to abuse. Oh, they have a process. All the President's appointees, employees, and cronies help him review who is a terrorist. That'll stop abuse, everybody stands up to their boss and patron.
If conservatives had even a tiny bit of intelligence, they would realize that you cannot protect your own rights without protecting everyone else's.
See also:
http://patrick.net/?p=1249847
If you are a member of a terrorist organization, you are a terrorist even if you never held a gun.
So the President unilaterally determines that?
Actually I came up with that. I hope the President takes my advise. God only knows, but Obama needs a lot of help.
Oh yes, unions are true terrorists. They encourage employees to fight for a living wage for God's sake! Real Americans would accept the pittance offered by the holy employer and file for section 8 housing, food stamps and free gub'mint healthcare! That's how true patriots do it!
If they had even a tiny bit of intelligence then they wouldn't be conservatives.
Exactly, being liberal requires less than a tiny bit of intelligence, anything more and you are at least a conservative.
Oh yes, unions are true terrorists. They encourage employees to fight for a living wage for God's sake! Real Americans would accept the pittance offered by the holy employer and file for section 8 housing, food stamps and free gub'mint healthcare! That's how true patriots do it!
Sorry Quigley, there is a reason why union membership has been on the decline. Wealth has to be produced before it can be claimed in the form of higher wages. Real wages are determined by your productivity regardless of what you may think living wages should be.
The war against terrorism is doing better.
Where??
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/24/world/meast/us-airstrikes/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Washington (CNN) -- U.S. and coalition warplanes pounded ISIS positions in eastern Syria on Wednesday, targeting what a Pentagon official described as mobile oil refineries being used by the so-called Islamic State terror group to help finance its operations.
The latest round of airstrikes were aimed at cutting off money flowing to ISIS, which makes up to $2 million a day from oil produced by the mobile refineries, Navy Rear Adm. John Kirby, the Pentagon spokesman, told CNN.
Fighter jets from Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates flew alongside U.S. aircraft during the operation, hitting 12 locations, Kirby said.
The war against terrorism is doing better.
Where??
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/24/world/meast/us-airstrikes/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Washington (CNN) -- U.S. and coalition warplanes pounded ISIS positions in eastern
Oh, you mean TODAY!!! I thought you meant the last few years or so...
I'll tell you what the secret of winning the war against terrorism is....... It's NOT US going after the terrorists, it's MAKING the Islamic countries go after their own home grown terrorists. Our part should be no more than doing what we do best, providing technology and intelligence.
It's NOT US going after the terrorists, it's MAKING the Islamic countries go after their own home grown terrorists.
So, just how much wine have you drank so far tonight? :)
ONE! believe me.
Our part should be no more than doing what we do best,
Starting wars?
Oh God! You have a long way to go.
The secret on fighting terrorism is not to create it in the first place.
The secret on fighting terrorism is not to create it in the first place.
No one can disagree with that statement. The million dollar question is, who creates it in the first place....infidels or Islam?
No one can disagree with that statement. The million dollar question is, who creates it in the first place....infidels or Islam?
It is mutual, the defense contractors need the terrorists to justify mega bucks on war gadgets. The terrorists need the US forces to justify their actions.
Also think about how do terrorists gain knowledge on how to use these gadgets? I doubt the gadgets are all plug and play with a short cut sheet?
If they had even a tiny bit of intelligence then they wouldn't be conservatives.
Exactly, being liberal requires less than a tiny bit of intelligence, anything more and you are at least a conservative.
Lame, lame, lame. My 5 year old can do better with a witty comeback. Would you like some help coming up with something more clever? ,She's always up for helping people out.
Oh yes, unions are true terrorists. They encourage employees to fight for a living wage for God's sake! Real Americans would accept the pittance offered by the holy employer and file for section 8 housing, food stamps and free gub'mint healthcare! That's how true patriots do it!
Sorry Quigley, there is a reason why union membership has been on the decline. Wealth has to be produced before it can be claimed in the form of higher wages. Real wages are determined by your productivity regardless of what you may think living wages should be.
I think what you mean to say is that enough wealth must be earned to pay the CEO 100x a worker's salary with stock options and bonuses of course, and then lavishly reward a board and management. If there's any left over, the actual wealth producers (employees) get a spot at the end of the line.
Unions just provide some balance. Putting all the power with the company is like putting only two legs on a table. It's bound to topple over.
Unions just provide some balance.
They dont, i'll tell you why.
I think what you mean to say is that enough wealth must be earned to pay the CEO 100x a worker's salary with stock options and bonuses of course, and then lavishly reward a board and management. If there's any left over, the actual wealth producers (employees) get a spot at the end of the line.
What if there is a loss? Is the janitor willing to take a pay cut?
The reason union membership has been on the decline is:
1)outsourcing of labor to low wage countries
2)corporate greed
3)corporations account for more than 100 of the top political contributors to either party. They've bought and paid for our government and get the laws they want as a result.
4)constant media propaganda against organized labor
Even a poorly run union at least allows its members to contribute to the local economy, raising all boats and creating business opportunity. A few rich board members intent on rewarding themselves and stockholders is a tried and true recipe for creating American ghost towns. Killing towns is un-American. So, in conclusion, you have to ask yourself: Why do you hate America?
The secret on fighting terrorism is not to create it in the first place.
No one can disagree with that statement. The million dollar question is, who creates it in the first place
The CIA...
Oh God...what are we gonna do with you.
The reason union membership has been on the decline is:
1)outsourcing of labor to low wage countries
That trend ain't gonna change.
2)corporate greed
That existed even during the rise of the unions.
3)corporations account for more than 100 of the top political contributors to either party.
That always existed too.
4)constant media propaganda against organized labor
If a liberal press is anti union, the unions must be really really bad.
You left out the real reason....Union greed. They sank company after company with their ridiculous demands. I wonder how the Twinkies union workers feel about their union. And to think they paid dues to a union boss who makes half a million or something. You don't get what you pay for.
Hey check this out:
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29339845
Air France has offered to scrap plans to expand its Transavia low-cost airline in Europe, in return for pilots returning to work immediately.
In a statement, it said the proposal would help "find an immediate outcome to this destructive conflict".
The company also offered "a renewed guarantee that there will be no relocation" of jobs.
Pilots have been on strike for 10 days and have grounded about half of the airline's flights.
They are unhappy at the lower rates of pay offered by the expanding budget operation compared with core Air France services, threatening to strike indefinitely unless the European expansion is scrapped.
The strike has been costing the airline up to 15m euros (£11.8m) a day.
Air France said it would instead develop its Transavia France project.
"Our Transavia project is a 100% pro-France project. It is about developing Transavia to encourage growth in France and quickly create more than 1,000 jobs in France (including 250 pilot jobs)," said the chief executives of Air France-KLM, Alexandre de Juniac, and Air France, Frederic Gagey in a joint statement.
The greedy Air France union restricts the development of low cost airlines, forcing travelers to pay more. Over time, a new low cost startup will start taking market share from Air France, either driving it out of business or becoming dependent on government subsidies. But the unions don't give a crap because they will have milked the cow until their last miserable day.
Once again, you are proven wrong wrong wrong wrongwrongwrong....
1. All humans have human rights.
Just remember, eventually some corrupt asshole will accuse you or one of your family members of being a terrorist or criminal because of
- a grudge
- a bounty
- a clerical error
- pseudo-scienceRelax, the CIA is not that stupid.
How can you be so ignorant of the history that occurred in your lifetime and only a few years ago?
In 2003, Khaled el-Masri, a German citizen in Macedonia, was grabbed off a bus and taken to a secret prison in Afghanistan as part of the CIA’s extraordinary rendition program. He was held there for five months. El-Masri was suspected of having ties to al-Qaeda, but he was the wrong guy. The mix-up was due to a misunderstanding concerning his name with the real suspected terrorist, as the names are spelled the same when using Arabic script.
A fucking clerical error and the CIA tortures an innocent man for five months.
Upon arrival, still handcuffed and blindfolded, he was initially placed in a chair, where he sat for one and a half hours….Then, two people violently pulled his arms back. On that occasion he was beaten severely from all sides. His clothes were sliced from his body with scissors or a knife. His underwear was forcibly removed. He was thrown to the floor, his hands were pulled back and a boot was placed on his back. He then felt a firm object being forced into his anus….He was then pulled from the floor and dragged to a corner of the room, where his feet were tied together. His blindfold was removed. A flash went off and temporarily blinded him. When he recovered his sight, he saw seven or eight men dressed in black and wearing black ski masks.
Four months, two hunger strikes, and a sojourn in more than one secret prison later, the man, Khaled El-Masri, who had been picked up in Macedonia in 2003, was simply dumped by the side of the road near an Albanian border crossing. Along the way, he’d had a gun held to his head as an interrogator berated him, demanding that he admit his connection to Al Qaeda. Why would someone with such dangerous connections be released? What about the casual information he might have that could unravel some devious plot?
The answer is simple: after a couple of months, the C.I.A. figured out that they had picked up not a shadowy terrorist but a car salesman from Bavaria who happened to have a similar name. Even then, they kept him prisoner for several weeks while trying to figure out their next move.
European court of human rights finds against CIA abuse of Khaled el-Masri
The CIA stripped, hooded, shackled, and sodomized el-Masri with a suppository – in CIA parlance, subjected him to "capture shock" – as Macedonian officials stood by. The CIA drugged him and flew him to Kabul to be locked up in a secret prison known as the "Salt Pit", where he was slammed into walls, kicked, beaten, and subjected to other forms of abuse. Held at the Salt Pit for four months, el-Masri was never charged, brought before a judge, or given access to his family or German government representatives.
The CIA ultimately realised that it had mistaken el-Masri for an al-Qaida suspect with a similar name. But it held on to him for weeks after that. It was not until 24 May 2004, that he was flown, blindfolded, earmuffed, and chained to his seat, to Albania, where he was dumped on the side of the road without explanation.
So Strategist, is your family immune to clerical errors? How would you like it if your son was sodomized by some sickos in the CIA?
How can you be so ignorant of the history that occurred in your lifetime and only a few years ago?
Strategist is ignorant of the history of what he did this morning, never mind a few years ago.
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